My take on the so called "ball squirt"

[Tim]

This is not meant at any one person or to spark up a fire, I just have to get it out -- I notice it's only the "top" players complaining of this. Can you not just have fun and accept the fact the game may have some subtle randomness built into it due to a number of factors that you are not taking into play. Are you really upset that you can't get to -18? You're not content with -14? You seem to think that your shots should go exactly as you hit them every time? Do you get mad at your golf ball in real life when it doesn't go "exactly" where you think it should. Do the top PGA players in the world cast blame on a golf ball or a club when their shots don't end up exactly where they think they should even when they "think" that have factored in every possible scenario that would affect their ball flight? No..

I'm sure your're not "fixing" anything by suggesting start changing their "protocols" and opening up firewall ports. What is going to end up happening is people are going to end up trying to do this fix and end up breaking their shortcut, and if they start messing with their router ports, really screw up their home networks... Give it a rest. Play the game. Have fun. If the ball doesn't go exactly like you want it to.. say dang-it and move on. Don't cast blame or try to influence others that something is wrong. It's a game, treat it as such.

I so looked forward to seeing a bunch of great competition and hearing some nice smack talk with the WGC and it's great field. Instead all I see in the forums is, "Another great round ruined by the squirt"... "This game is going to be unplayable if they don't fix the squirt"... "This pisses me off and ruins the game"... Really!? Suck it up and play. I'm done with the complaining and griping.

[Deleted]

i think you would have a different stance if it was costing you 10 strokes per tourny while the other guy is laughing all the way home because he has no idea what you are talking about.

that would be like giving fickett's opposing lawyer the ability to say "objection" at any time, but without a reason, and then followed up by "sustained" from the judge,. ....but fickett has to have a proper reason whenever he wants to object and always gets the "overruled" by the judge.

(did i get that right?, or was it backwards..)

[Tim]

Nope I wouldn't have a different stance. As a developer, I would have built in randomness as well.

[Deleted]

Mar 5, 2015 8:14:37 GMT -5 Tim said:

Nope I wouldn't have a different stance. As a developer, I would have built in randomness as well.

I would have too, and that would make it fair for all, but this squirt deal, is not the same for all, thats the entire point of getting it fixed.

[ralphieboy79]

I feel the same way as the original post, but was a little scared to say anything in fear of getting my head bit off. The game is too easy anyway. If there is a squirt here or there it actually would help the game represent the real life sport a little better.

[Tim]

Mar 5, 2015 8:17:06 GMT -5 ralphieboy79 said:

I feel the same way as the original post, but was a little scared to say anything in fear of getting my head bit off. The game is too easy anyway. If there is a squirt here or there it actually would help the game represent the real life sport a little better.

Exactly. I like the fact that the ball doesn't go where you expect it to go each time depending on a # of factors.

[Oblong]

So you have users modifying their settings claiming it allows them to shoot straight. One user stated it almost completely eliminated any deviation and went from shooting a 64 in rnd 1 to a 57 in rnd 2. If white line straight shooting is not allowed would also goalpost upright splitting at the top of the screen also need to be looked at? Or are you simply stating these claims are false despite some evidence showing contrary to that?

I am with you agreeing scores are low enough already and am happy that there is deviation.

[foolinjection]

I'm still not 100% sold on "ball squirt" being a thing and if it is a thing, it being controllable or fixable. Like you said Tim, you see top players bemoaning a round of 58(-14) when I'm lucky if I can hit a Par 72 in the low 60's. Really lads, no offence and don't take this the wrong way, but if you are making birdie or eagle on nearly every hole... there can't be that much wrong and you really don't have much to complain about. Tastegw, you said it was costing you around 10 strokes a round. Given you're sitting with a 59 in round two of the current tournament, that would mean hypothetically you believe potentially you should be able to shoot 49 for a par 72 or -23 for 18 holes. I'm not saying that's not possible but if you can birdie every hole and eagle every Par 5... maybe go outside for a while and put the controller down lol. XD

I said this in the massive post about the subject, it if is indeed a random thing programmed with the game. I think you have to view this as akin to what professional Snooker players call a "kick". A poor contact between the cue-ball and object-ball which causes the majority of any spin applied to be lost and the object-ball to veer offline from the original intended path. There are many theories as to what causes a "kick"; build up of chalk dust on the cue-ball, static electricity build up and discharge caused by the thinner billiard cloth used now at tournament level and even the material the balls are made from. The upshot is that no-one really knows how to fix a "kick" in the snooker world so pro's just accept that it might happen and do their level best to deal with it. This is why you see them asking the referee to clean the cue-ball and sometimes even the object-ball before a crucial shot which they want to apply heavy spin. When a "kick" does happen understandably they get annoyed but like I said before, as it can happen to anyone at anytime... so it's an even playing field.

Steve was kind enough to message me about his thoughts on what the culprit of "ball squirt" was and his fix before it had gone live on the forums. My immediate reaction upon reading it was "Really?... Huh... Your saying it's connection lag then, basically?". Which I could kind of buy into being a reason to maybe mess up a shot but like I said I'm not 100% sold as I've still never really seen this myself but then I've never analysed my game so much that I'd be looking for it. If I hit a shot 20y wide of the target, I assume somewhere in the swing I've sclaffed it left or right.

For the record. I'm playing on PC with an old wired Xbox 360 pad... with a knackered left analog stick

Like I said, still not 100% sold but simultaneously don't want to belittle someones opinion or research. I think "ball squirt", for me as a bit of a skeptic, falls into the category of homeopathy, cryptozoology, ufo's, the paranormal and conspiracy theories. Some people swear by them being tangible, and that's okay... but you'll always have someone who thinks you are a bit mad when you tell them you subscribe to it.

[Tim]

Maybe this -- en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink :-)

[Pubknight]

I said my piece in the other thread, so I'm not going to get back into it again.
But I will only add this: Ever wondered why it's an aiming reticle, and not a crosshair?

[CongoGB]

Just wanted to say that I'm in complete agreement with Tim. And I'm all for random "squirts" - how dull would it be if people could work things out simply using maths skills?

Maybe if some of the top players don't like it, they can stop playing and give some of us others a chance! 

I read in one of the other threads that some of them think the game will die and people will stop playing if they can't predict these "squirts". Well, maybe you and a few others will stop, but the vast, vast majority won't - the game, and this tour will just go on from strength to strength.

And if you're getting too worked up about it - maybe take a break and play some real golf 

[billybudd0623]

I too like some deviation in the game. The game of golf in real life is played in the 'elements' and on an uneven plot of land. You will get good breaks and bad breaks. I think the pursuit of 'perfection' is ruining the game for some people. I ask this question, not to be inflammatory, but when players start changing their computers to remove this randomness, how is different than using the controllers that are banned? I am certainly not one of the better players so maybe I just don't understand.

I agree with CongoGB, go out on the course and relax!

[Brighttail]

Hey Tim,
I agree with your sentiment, but i will say it isn't just "elite" golfers whining about this. I'm far from elite and I hate the ball squirt. At first I was thinking it was a bug and after a couple months I do believe it is a bit of randomness put into the game to prevent it from becoming a game based solely on math and the ability to swing straight. Imagine if there were no ball squirts, the -15's would be -18, -20, -21? We have all played courses like BM and Yuma. I have scored -20 on those courses but that is mainly because ball squirt doesn't happen with putting and flat putting is easy!

I guess my issue with all of this is HBS' "non-stance". They blame it on the developers which I feel is unfair, especially when it is happening even on their own published courses. They have yet to admit to anything and that frustrates me. I mean how hard is it to come out and say, "Yeah it is a little feature we put in there to mimic the reality that no golf swing is 100% perfect." Fine. Done. End of discussion. The fact they haven't done this I think it was an unintended bug that they are willing to let be for now.

[Deleted]

I for sure aint no top player, but I have surely wondered about this squirting, and I have stated my case, both here and at HB, probably not always in an extremely nice manner, but thats not me, and I dont care about that.
Now, I have tested the "solution" and what it does and dont do!

Its not a fix for hooks and slices, those are still very much there. It dosent make straight shots out of crooked ones. If you hit a bad shot, you get a bad result (if youre not lucky on the bounce).

But now, if I hit a good shot, I get a good result! And not a shot that deviates several meters in a wrong direction according to where it should have gone.

Thats what I like to see. I got enough to think about, regarding wind, slopes and greens, if not on top of all that, I should try to acknowledge that the ball PROBABLY will be 4-6 meters left of the hole, but not always, because that is what it has been like for me.

SO, no support from me, and NO kudos to HBS for the silent treatment, thats just BS. If they made this a feature on purpose, stand up for it, or come clean and say it was a mistake.

[theclv24]

As I stated in the WGC post, I have no idea if ball squirt is a thing or not. All I know is that in the past week I have gotten significantly worse at the game, with seemingly no explanation or way to figure out how to get better. It's not as if I have never been good, or have been in a slow decline for awhile. I was in line for a top 10 finish last week, and then all of a sudden in the last round I couldn't get anywhere near the hole on approaches, and strange things were happening. It has only continued with every round since.

I have no issue with randomness, and I would prefer that a great round is regularly around -9 or so, as opposed to -15. I want to be able to compete, though, and I want to be able to improve or identify weaknesses in my game to fix. I can't do that right now, and it's frustrating as a competitor, because I can't turn off my competitiveness and just be content with whatever I shoot.

I honestly don't even care what the problem is, how many people it affects, or what the fix is. I just want to be able to explain my good scores and my bad scores, and at least have a strategy to improve my game.