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Post by lessthanbread on Nov 22, 2019 12:54:03 GMT -5
Craziest thing I've seen on a football field. Garrett absolutely needs to be suspended for a nice long while with a big fine. I think he would have been looking at a suspension or at least a fine if he had just ripped the helmet off and left it at that. I watched it again focusing on Rudolph. Here's my full analysis because it's Friday and I don't feel like working  Garrett instigated an altercation by keeping after Rudolph after the play had gone. He unnecessarily pulled Rudolph to the ground when there was clearly no need to do so. Not sure if he was trying to get under Rudolph's skin or just purely wanted to impose his physical will on him... either way it was not a football play. Although this kind of thing happens very regularly in football. The trouble began when, and how, Rudolph reacted to this action by Garrett. Rudolph lost his cool and began trying to pull Garrett's helmet off in anger but was not in an advantageous position to accomplish that mission. This reaction by Rudolph probably took Garrett by surprise and forced him to make a quick decision on how to handle Rudolph attempting to remove his helmet. Almost like a fight-flight response, Garrett very quickly utilized his size and strength advantage to turn the scuffle in his favor. It was at first a defensive response aimed to stop Rudolph from removing his helmet but then quickly turned to an offensive retaliation. Garrett, now in the more advantageous position over top of Rudolph, decided to accomplish what Rudolph failed to do and removed Rudolph's helmet. Rudolph then became very upset because not only did Garrett keep going after him after the play was gone, he failed to remove Garrett's helmet and has now had his own helmet removed. So, Rudolph initiates further with Garrett now that both players are on their feet with Steelers linemen attempting to separate Garrett from their quarterback. Seeing that Rudolph was still going after him even after having his helmet removed triggered another response from Garrett and that was to hit Rudolph over the head with said helmet. Summary with benchmarks and probable outcomes had the altercation stopped there: *Garrett makes a non-football related play by wrestling Rudolph to the ground after the play had clearly gone. (Unnecessary Roughness penalty against Garrett) *Rudolph loses his temper and attempts (but fails) to remove Garrett's helmet. (Unsportsmanlike Conduct penalty against Rudolph) (Ejection, fine and/or short suspension if he had been successful) *Garrett removes Rudolph's helmet. (Unsportsmanlike Conduct penalty against Garrett with ejection, fine and/or short suspension since he was successful) *Rudolph continues going after Garrett after his helmet is removed. (This action is critical because it led directly to the clubbing yet is hard to determine what the overall outcome would have been if Rudolph hadn't decided to further engage with Garrett. Does this mean Rudolph deserved to get hit with his own helmet? Absolutely not, but he wouldn't have gotten hit if he decided to stop going after Garrett at that point. Is it Rudolph's fault he got hit with is own helmet? Also absolutely not, but it created the opportunity) *Garrett hits Rudolph over the head with his own helmet (Outcome pending) Just my detailed thoughts on the matter. Enjoy the read |
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Post by nevadaballin on Nov 22, 2019 15:00:49 GMT -5
For the record, Rudolph is 6' 5" 235 and Garrett is 6' 4" 270.
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Post by ddixjr509 on Feb 14, 2020 9:29:44 GMT -5
Bump-
From Indefinite to 6 game suspension.
1. The NFL must have had sufficient proof that Rudolph dropped the N bomb and was at least complicit in the "fight".
2. The lack of remorse by Garrett is appalling. Even if something was said ("things" are said for 60m in every football game), Garret crossed (obliterated) "the line". 6 games isn't enough to detract future escalations/ altercations.
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Post by titaneddie on Feb 14, 2020 9:40:44 GMT -5
If that was a back up dlineman doing that to Brady would he be in jail right now? Would his olineman that attacked the guy get 3 games? Garrett has out of this world talent so he easily get back on the field next year. Everyone knows how this works. Can't say I'm shocked! |
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Post by lessthanbread on Feb 14, 2020 9:46:48 GMT -5
Not even close to a long enough suspension. I haven't seen anything confirming or denying the racial slur but I find it odd that Garrett decided to add it to his story about a week after the incident happened. Even if something was said, I don't think it should excuse what he did at all
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Post by titaneddie on Feb 14, 2020 11:11:02 GMT -5
Not even close to a long enough suspension. I haven't seen anything confirming or denying the racial slur but I find it odd that Garrett decided to add it to his story about a week after the incident happened. Even if something was said, I don't think it should excuse what he did at all And let's be real, like far worse stuff isn't said all the time. |
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Post by JosiaDB on Feb 16, 2020 15:00:31 GMT -5
shrug.
He basically got exactly what the majority of us in the poll at the top of the post thought he should get.
C'mon, Remember dudes, this was a heat of the moment fight, tempers were lost. It was not anything premeditated or planned. 90% (or more) of us has done something stupid before in a fit of rage, has lost control.
Give the dude a second chance and see if he does ok from here on out.
If he turns into Vontaze Burfict , or Antonio Brown, THEN bring the hammer down. Or James Harrison. Or Richie Incognito. I could go on and on.
You wanna talk about suspensions not being enough, tell me why Burfict and Incognito are both reinstated and able to play.
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Post by nevadaballin on Feb 16, 2020 17:32:02 GMT -5
shrug.
He basically got exactly what the majority of us in the poll at the top of the post thought he should get.
C'mon, Remember dudes, this was a heat of the moment fight, tempers were lost. It was not anything premeditated or planned. 90% (or more) of us has done something stupid before in a fit of rage, has lost control.
Give the dude a second chance and see if he does ok from here on out.
If he turns into Vontaze Burfict , or Antonio Brown, THEN bring the hammer down. Or James Harrison. Or Richie Incognito. I could go on and on.
You wanna talk about suspensions not being enough, tell me why Burfict and Incognito are both reinstated and able to play.
If one of us regular folk hit someone in the head with a football helmet we’d be doing time in the slammer for assault. No joke. He literally could have killed or seriously injured Rudolph for life with a neuro problem. Garrett had a choice to use an empty hand or the hand with a weapon. He reached over another player holding him back and used the weapon. “Heat of the moment” is no excuse imo. It wouldn’t fly in a courtroom, it shouldn’t fly for the NFL. That’s an excuse for trying to break someone’s XBox, not their skull. Just my opinion on how I see it. |
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Post by karma4u on Feb 16, 2020 19:05:14 GMT -5
Americans arguing over "Rule of Law"..Priceless.  |
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Post by nevadaballin on Feb 16, 2020 20:27:03 GMT -5
Americans arguing over "Rule of Law"..Priceless. There's no law here, only the wild wild west part 2 |
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Post by JosiaDB on Feb 17, 2020 9:25:29 GMT -5
shrug.
He basically got exactly what the majority of us in the poll at the top of the post thought he should get.
C'mon, Remember dudes, this was a heat of the moment fight, tempers were lost. It was not anything premeditated or planned. 90% (or more) of us has done something stupid before in a fit of rage, has lost control.
Give the dude a second chance and see if he does ok from here on out.
If he turns into Vontaze Burfict , or Antonio Brown, THEN bring the hammer down. Or James Harrison. Or Richie Incognito. I could go on and on.
You wanna talk about suspensions not being enough, tell me why Burfict and Incognito are both reinstated and able to play.
If one of us regular folk hit someone in the head with a football helmet we’d be doing time in the slammer for assault. No joke. He literally could have killed or seriously injured Rudolph for life with a neuro problem. Garrett had a choice to use an empty hand or the hand with a weapon. He reached over another player holding him back and used the weapon. “Heat of the moment” is no excuse imo. It wouldn’t fly in a courtroom, it shouldn’t fly for the NFL. That’s an excuse for trying to break someone’s XBox, not their skull. Just my opinion on how I see it.
Oh I'm not trying to excuse him with no punishment, or downplay the severity of what he did.
What I'm trying to say is simply that as far as I know, he doesn't have a history (yet) of this kind of thing.
And I believe that all of us are capable of moments where we lose control, and after we are held accountable for our actions (which I believe he has been, for a first time offender) we should be given a second chance.
Its what he does now that matters.
If he continues and does this behavior AGAIN, then by all means punish him severely. If he gets back on the straight and narrow, then lets chalk this up to a mistake by a young man that he has learned from.
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Post by nevadaballin on Feb 17, 2020 13:17:31 GMT -5
If one of us regular folk hit someone in the head with a football helmet we’d be doing time in the slammer for assault. No joke. He literally could have killed or seriously injured Rudolph for life with a neuro problem. Garrett had a choice to use an empty hand or the hand with a weapon. He reached over another player holding him back and used the weapon. “Heat of the moment” is no excuse imo. It wouldn’t fly in a courtroom, it shouldn’t fly for the NFL. That’s an excuse for trying to break someone’s XBox, not their skull. Just my opinion on how I see it.
Oh I'm not trying to excuse him with no punishment, or downplay the severity of what he did.
What I'm trying to say is simply that as far as I know, he doesn't have a history (yet) of this kind of thing.
And I believe that all of us are capable of moments where we lose control, and after we are held accountable for our actions (which I believe he has been, for a first time offender) we should be given a second chance.
Its what he does now that matters.
If he continues and does this behavior AGAIN, then by all means punish him severely. If he gets back on the straight and narrow, then lets chalk this up to a mistake by a young man that he has learned from.
Yea I understand that and it's a good point. But I have this outlook where I typically see things through a "what if that was me or one of us regular folk who did that" lens. Under that optic, a prosecutor is charging me with minimum assault, maximum assault with a deadly weapon and maybe attempted murder depending on the aggressiveness of the prosecutor and state law. Football is a violent sport by nature and players get a little ticked at each other but they typically don't use their helmets as weapons, especially in this day and age where they are trying to reduce contact to the head. In most cases they are so heated they end up punching the helmet of the other guy, not hitting them with one. But usually it is some pushing and shoving. The situation with Garrett, from my pov, is that he was already being held back. Granted Rudolph was dumb to continue the fray and go after him (I see Rudolph as a VERY guilty party in this too), but my goodness Garrett drop the helmet, put up your dukes and then have at it. My entire issue with this is the use of the helmet to strike another player in the head that is unprotected. It doesn't matter to me if it was a first offense or ninth. BTW, this is not his first "too rough" instance. But that's where opinions vary and that's fine, it creates open discussion which is always good The players would hate me i I was NFL Commissioner lol. |
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Post by zorbacles on Feb 22, 2020 3:01:43 GMT -5
Your kidding aren't you?
If someone was rushing at me I'm permitted to defend myself.
Sure he was a bit excessive but was he just supposed to stand there and get hit?
Rudolph was not injured so it seems like it couldn't have been to big of a hit.
Certainly a suspension is warranted but talk of assault charges is laughable
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Post by nevadaballin on Feb 23, 2020 14:02:32 GMT -5
Your kidding aren't you? If someone was rushing at me I'm permitted to defend myself. Sure he was a bit excessive but was he just supposed to stand there and get hit? Rudolph was not injured so it seems like it couldn't have been to big of a hit. Certainly a suspension is warranted but talk of assault charges is laughable Not kidding at all. When considering self defense in court: “Force likely to cause death or great bodily harm is justified in self-defense only if a person reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent death or great bodily harm.” Force likely to cause death or great bodily harm. It’s important to understand what that means in a court of law. It isn’t saying that death or great bodily harm has to happen. The other part of that is did Garrett fear Rudolph was going to do the same to him? That answer is no. We know that because Garrett has never said such a thing since that incident. Garrett made a bad decision. Really bad. And he didn’t have to stand there and take it either. He could have dropped the helmet and put up his dukes. Rudolph had no weapon - or helmet. So Garrett was even more protected than Rudolph. I doubt he feared for his wellness. In fact we know he didn’t. If that had gone to court, Garrett would have been found guilty. |
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Post by zorbacles on Feb 23, 2020 16:41:32 GMT -5
But it wasn't force great enough to cause death or harm. It didn't even cause a concussion. The dude got up and did a press conference.
You live in a country where it is perfectly fine to shoot someone just for entering your property.
I didn't say he didn't do the wrong thing. I'm saying that in the real world of someone charges at me I'm going to defend myself
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