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Post by mcbogga on Feb 27, 2015 9:13:48 GMT -5
I think this is the best aid to turn off for just a bit more variance and difficulty without changing the game significantly.
As has been pointed out by others - it's not all that hard to get a quite good read of the wind. Also adds a more strategic skill element where we have to decide just how much we can gamble to bite off that dogleg or if we should go with 3w due to the risk of running through the fairway. Same with tucked pins. Not auto-fire at the pin anymore, we have to figure out if that makeable 20footer is a better choice than risking a tricky bunkershot for the reward of a tap in....
In real life as well you never really know the wind, and it varies significantly between tee and green sometimes... Augusta's 12 is the classic example of tricky winds, but it is also a quite common designer trick to block the wind on the tee. Actually, I would say wind is one of the hardest factors to cope with in real life.
Doyley - maybe you could do what you did with the handicap tourney and arrange an "outside the tours" wind off tournament? I think many people are dismissing something based on assumptions before they actually tried it.
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Post by Oblong on Feb 27, 2015 9:32:16 GMT -5
My thought is that there is no harm in getting an early start on a stop-gap measure if the time comes that players are bunched at the top shooting stock rounds.
I feel that we are still a ways off from that as evidenced by this weeks Honda PGA Tournament. There are 2 or 3 guys outside the top 100 WGR in the Top 10, a great mix of WGR rankings in the Top 25. and even some Top 10 WGR rankers who failed to make the cut. That to me is saying scoring variety, albeit on the low side, is still very much present. Personally I had a double bogey and bogey in the first round and despite the pain of such, I love that as a fairly decent player I am still putting red on my card.
My only concern for no wind reading is the potential for "gaming" it with a companion app running.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2015 10:24:06 GMT -5
My only concern for no wind reading is the potential for "gaming" it with a companion app running. That right there, is a big reason against having no aids in play.
If you want to jack my scores, just shut off the caddy. I hit a 20 yard pitch yesterday with a driver, twice. But in a tournament I'm likely to pay more attention. But that right there will cost lots of people plenty of strokes.
If they gave a different green grid option, somewhere in between off and on, something I could just have a general idea quickly, I would quite enjoy my time with no aids. It is fun, but then comes the putting, I spend the first 3 holes trying all the ticks to find the break, then usually just end up going in the rest of the way putting them all straight and making sure I go by the hole a few feet as I cannot be bothered with it anymore.
But the best trick with no aids is load ghosts, and I held the course record for Bavaro for a while with a -13 with no aids on, load them, like them, play them. But that right there is a huge disadvantage for anyone out first, so just another reason for all aids on.
Bottom line best option to raise scores, and I would love to see the scores rise, comes from courses, HBS wind options, HBS with uneven lie, (ie side hill and up and down) having a true impact, and ball squirt for everyone tied to axis hit on not only the current ball flight, but the starting line of the shot.
We need to push these guys for the changes, as they will not support the game forever, 1 year max is all we can hope for. |
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Post by pillowofsoft on Feb 27, 2015 10:42:36 GMT -5
Played a round with the wind off and it's ok the key detail of direction is still in tact but I have two concerns. Firstly most people, I think the scores back this up are wind waiting to an extent. If you are waiting for low winds being without the wind metre is less of an issue certainly for the better players who are shooting the scores we want to come down. Secondly can this be set at the tour level? I had to change my settings to do it in practice but can it be enforced. Ultimately if we need to lower scores and this is felt to help I wouldn't be against it I'm just not sure how much difference it makes.
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Post by fondername0 on Feb 27, 2015 10:59:01 GMT -5
Ok, I'm changing my mind. Before I tried it for about 3 holes and decided I didn't like it. I gave it a full 9 holes last night and think its alright.
I still like playing with no scout cam though. But the course needs to be designed properly without a bunch of blind hazards to do so.
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Post by Doyley on Feb 27, 2015 11:06:03 GMT -5
Played a round with the wind off and it's ok the key detail of direction is still in tact but I have two concerns. Firstly most people, I think the scores back this up are wind waiting to an extent. If you are waiting for low winds being without the wind metre is less of an issue certainly for the better players who are shooting the scores we want to come down. Secondly can this be set at the tour level? I had to change my settings to do it in practice but can it be enforced. Ultimately if we need to lower scores and this is felt to help I wouldn't be against it I'm just not sure how much difference it makes. Yes, we can set it for the event so everyone would need to use it. We wouldn't use it until HB implemented their wind system for tours, making wind waiting irrelevant. |
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Post by Doyley on Feb 27, 2015 11:09:15 GMT -5
My only concern for no wind reading is the potential for "gaming" it with a companion app running. From what I've read, this wouldn't be a concern. Reason being is that HB has said that the wind would be a random speed per round - which sounds like it would be separate from the global wind for Play Round. So even if you had two accounts and were playing one with play round and the other in the tournament, the wind in theory would be different. |
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Post by fuzion on Feb 27, 2015 11:19:02 GMT -5
My only concern for no wind reading is the potential for "gaming" it with a companion app running. From what I've read, this wouldn't be a concern. Reason being is that HB has said that the wind would be a random speed per round - which sounds like it would be separate from the global wind for Play Round. So even if you had two accounts and were playing one with play round and the other in the tournament, the wind in theory would be different. Yeah, this is correct, and HB needs to get this in asap. Also, I hope they keep the wind direction randomised -- otherwise you will just have a trail of ghost balls playing the same shot. |
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Post by pillowofsoft on Feb 27, 2015 11:39:54 GMT -5
Played a round with the wind off and it's ok the key detail of direction is still in tact but I have two concerns. Firstly most people, I think the scores back this up are wind waiting to an extent. If you are waiting for low winds being without the wind metre is less of an issue certainly for the better players who are shooting the scores we want to come down. Secondly can this be set at the tour level? I had to change my settings to do it in practice but can it be enforced. Ultimately if we need to lower scores and this is felt to help I wouldn't be against it I'm just not sure how much difference it makes. Yes, we can set it for the event so everyone would need to use it. We wouldn't use it until HB implemented their wind system for tours, making wind waiting irrelevant. Thanks doyley In that case I don't see a major issue with it. It's not the way I'd choose to play the game purely for fun but competition is as much about the challenge as it is the fun and this wouldn't ruin the fun. |
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Post by Oblong on Feb 27, 2015 12:20:19 GMT -5
My only concern for no wind reading is the potential for "gaming" it with a companion app running. From what I've read, this wouldn't be a concern. Reason being is that HB has said that the wind would be a random speed per round - which sounds like it would be separate from the global wind for Play Round. So even if you had two accounts and were playing one with play round and the other in the tournament, the wind in theory would be different. I see, so this topic is an "after the tourney wind fix" discussion. That makes more sense though I believe higher set winds for tourneys is really going to add some time before scores will be at their current level...I could be wrong as I have shot some of my lowest scores in winds over 10 mph. |
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Post by Pubknight on Feb 27, 2015 12:37:08 GMT -5
I see, so this topic is an "after the tourney wind fix" discussion. That makes more sense though I believe higher set winds for tourneys is really going to add some time before scores will be at their current level...I could be wrong as I have shot some of my lowest scores in winds over 10 mph. I don't mean to speak for Doyley, but I think it's kind of a "hey, try this out, see what you think... maybe you'll like it" kind of discussion. With the caveat that the only way this would even be considered to be put in play would be if we get round by round tournament winds. So it's kind of a two parter. I think the reality is they have to be looking at the scores and have some concerns with the compression... and are thinking about ways to spread the scores out. Not just raise universally across the board, but spread them out. Since the players are just going to keep getting better. Maybe round by round winds accomplish that on their own. But it's good to be thinking about a plan b just in case. |
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Post by mcbogga on Feb 27, 2015 16:58:29 GMT -5
My only concern for no wind reading is the potential for "gaming" it with a companion app running. That right there, is a big reason against having no aids in play.
If you want to jack my scores, just shut off the caddy. I hit a 20 yard pitch yesterday with a driver, twice. But in a tournament I'm likely to pay more attention. But that right there will cost lots of people plenty of strokes.
If they gave a different green grid option, somewhere in between off and on, something I could just have a general idea quickly, I would quite enjoy my time with no aids. It is fun, but then comes the putting, I spend the first 3 holes trying all the ticks to find the break, then usually just end up going in the rest of the way putting them all straight and making sure I go by the hole a few feet as I cannot be bothered with it anymore.
But the best trick with no aids is load ghosts, and I held the course record for Bavaro for a while with a -13 with no aids on, load them, like them, play them. But that right there is a huge disadvantage for anyone out first, so just another reason for all aids on.
Bottom line best option to raise scores, and I would love to see the scores rise, comes from courses, HBS wind options, HBS with uneven lie, (ie side hill and up and down) having a true impact, and ball squirt for everyone tied to axis hit on not only the current ball flight, but the starting line of the shot.
We need to push these guys for the changes, as they will not support the game forever, 1 year max is all we can hope for. Good points Steve, even if I don't think the wind would be "gamed". Club select is the one I think might as well be on as well. Not like it's helping with the actual shot anyway, and you don't pull a driver by mistake from 40yds irl... Loading ghosts I don't see as a real issue either. Same in real life - you get the line from your playing partners all the time. Would say this is my "go to" method for green reading IRL... Courses - yes! Tournament courses are available out there with more coming and tour selection needs to tighten up. The upcoming euro schedule is going to be a birdie fest slaughterhouse and I expect us to see the first "maxed out" rounds on one of those courses. -13 at bavaro with no aids is very good, and a good example that good players will shoot double digits no matter what. Game is just a tiny bit to simplistic at the moment. Pushing HB - double yes! It has been very hard to have any constructive discussion about game difficulty so far though. Lots of people comment to the effect of "good as it is", "don't break it" etc and even the suggestions to improve are fragmented. HB firmly believes balance is good as well. We would need a coordinated effort with the weight of TGCT behind to have any power in such request - and on here we are very divided. My suggestion is still to implement a "timing mechanic" to the swing tied to push and pulls and maybe smart distance variation. Realistic and adds a whole new dimension to master. It is a bit strange that a game supposed to be "simulation gaming" does not include such a core mechanic as push and pull... |
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Post by nevadaballin on Feb 27, 2015 18:02:35 GMT -5
I think that being a little patient and waiting for the wind solution to come form the studio first may be the way to go. We really want to avoid knee-jerk decision making/changes this early in this tour project.
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Post by justamush on Mar 8, 2015 8:25:03 GMT -5
I love playing without the wind meter. You can tell the general strength from visual clues, but you can't dial it in exactly. Which is how it should be. I know when I'm on the course I can't tell the difference between 10 and 12 mph winds.
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Post by lessangster on Mar 10, 2015 10:28:51 GMT -5
How about not showing actual wind speed but change the colour of the arrow to indicate relative strength of the wind, say Green = Light wind, Blue = Medium wind and Red = Strong wind then let people work it out from the visual clues as well
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