Not lining up correctly

[bobby22]

I am trying to design Mirimichi golf club in Memphis Tn. I am using the 2274 for the EPSG numbers and I have double checked the Lidar and I just can't get the Lidar and the OSM to line up.  Am I using the right EPSG number or do you think it is just bad lidar data. 

[champ39]

Aug 12, 2019 21:09:31 GMT -5 bobby22 said:

I am trying to design Mirimichi golf club in Memphis Tn. I am using the 2274 for the EPSG numbers and I have double checked the Lidar and I just can't get the Lidar and the OSM to line up.  Am I using the right EPSG number or do you think it is just bad lidar data. 

I've had a play around with it this morning. I am no expert in Lidar, but like to dabble...

Assuming you are using the Shelby_Co 2017 lidar data, 2274 looks to be the correct EPSG number.

I think the lidar is fine, it's the awfulness of the OSM imagery that's to blame, you've had a fair crack at it, but how can you accurately trace the position of a green when you can't even see it???

[hoosierhoops24]

bobby22,

I agree with champ39 that the OSM data is off and that's probably why you're having trouble with the alignment. In the picture above from OSM, there are some symbols along the right hand side. Click on the one that looks like layers/stacks and change to the background that says Esri World Imagery (Clarity) Beta. I looked at it and that background has pretty good images (at least the best of the available options). At the bottom of that menu, there is a section titled "Adjust imagery offset." Use the offset tool to line up your existing tracings and then go back and redo the greens and any other features that look off. Once you're finished in OSM, go back to the Lidar tool and regenerate the course. When you export your course file to TGC, there's an option to adjust the course, terrain or features. Use that to adjust the course as needed. Hope that helps.

[champ39]

Aug 13, 2019 9:00:13 GMT -5 hoosierhoops24 said:

bobby22,

I agree with champ39 that the OSM data is off and that's probably why you're having trouble with the alignment. In the picture above from OSM, there are some symbols along the right hand side. Click on the one that looks like layers/stacks and change to the background that says Esri World Imagery (Clarity) Beta. I looked at it and that background has pretty good images (at least the best of the available options). At the bottom of that menu, there is a section titled "Adjust imagery offset." Use the offset tool to line up your existing tracings and then go back and redo the greens and any other features that look off. Once you're finished in OSM, go back to the Lidar tool and regenerate the course. When you export your course file to TGC, there's an option to adjust the course, terrain or features. Use that to adjust the course as needed. Hope that helps.

I'll agree the Esri is slightly better, I still can't make out the fairways with the colour of the grass tho, and when I checked the historical views in Google Earth Pro, the Esri image could be as much as 3 years old.
There have been changes to the course since the Esri, a pond was added on one hole, and some bunkers have been added or removed.

[hoosierhoops24]

You're going to find that most if not all of the images on OSM are older than what you will find on Google, unfortunately.

[hoosierhoops24]

Sometimes even going back and forth between the different images will help with different course features. It's a pain to be sure, but I don't know when or if we'll ever be able to use Google with the Lidar tool. I'm pretty sure it has to do with the cost. Of course, you could always manually add the new course features/changes once you've created the initial plot/course. I know several designers have done that. I'm personally not very skilled at that, but several of the best designers have made fantastic and accurate Lidar courses that way.

[champ39]

Aug 13, 2019 10:27:20 GMT -5 hoosierhoops24 said:

Sometimes even going back and forth between the different images will help with different course features. It's a pain to be sure, but I don't know when or if we'll ever be able to use Google with the Lidar tool. I'm pretty sure it has to do with the cost. Of course, you could always manually add the new course features/changes once you've created the initial plot/course. I know several designers have done that. I'm personally not very skilled at that, but several of the best designers have made fantastic and accurate Lidar courses that way.

I've got no skills either ha.
I must have got lucky with the 3 courses I mapped in OSM, no adjustments were needed.

Nice profile pic btw.... a great album from my youth. 😀

[hoosierhoops24]

Thanks. I'm a huge Paul Weller fan and even though I'm American, The Jam is my all-time fav.

[bobby22]

Thanks for all the info. Even the bunkers are way off. I thought it had to be done in bing . I did one other course last week and it turned out perfect bout it was much easier to spline in Bing. Is it easier to spline it in one of the other imagery and then move it in chads tool than to try and do it in bing if you can't see good enough. I am just a newby with not much Computer skills but not to old to learn.

[hoosierhoops24]

I have done several courses so far (none published yet, just for my own enjoyment), and I haven't used Bing for any of them because of the poor image quality. I almost always use Mapbox Satellite, although I use Esri World Imagery (Clarity) Beta some as well. I use the best image I can find from the different image sources. The bottom line is the better image you get, the better/more accurate your data will be when you sue the Lidar Tool. Also be aware that in some cases the Mapbox Satellite image looks blurred from a distance but actually clears when you zoom in. It's an odd quirk that I didn't know about until I saw something posted on here somewhere and tried it for myself. You can always adjust your features in the Lidar Tool. Hope that helps.

[hoosierhoops24]

I have done several courses so far (none published yet, just for my own enjoyment), and I haven't used Bing for any of them because of the poor image quality. I almost always use Mapbox Satellite, although I use Esri World Imagery (Clarity) Beta some as well. I use the best image I can find from the different image sources. The bottom line is the better image you get, the better/more accurate your data will be when you sue the Lidar Tool. Also be aware that in some cases the Mapbox Satellite image looks blurred from a distance but actually clears when you zoom in. It's an odd quirk that I didn't know about until I saw something posted on here somewhere and tried it for myself. You can always adjust your features in the Lidar Tool. Hope that helps.

[bobby22]

Thank you it helps a ton.

[champ39]

Aug 13, 2019 13:35:16 GMT -5 bobby22 said:

Thanks for all the info. Even the bunkers are way off. I thought it had to be done in bing . I did one other course last week and it turned out perfect bout it was much easier to spline in Bing. Is it easier to spline it in one of the other imagery and then move it in chads tool than to try and do it in bing if you can't see good enough. I am just a newby with not much Computer skills but not to old to learn.

Well that turned out to be pretty easy, I had a look at the course I made today, and chose the 2 bunkers in the fairway on hole 7 for the ones I would use for shifting. In OSM on the Esri Clarity image, I shifted them -3.24 to the right to line them up, so in the tool I input the figure of 3.24 (see pic), before importing the heightmap and OSM stage.

Worked out really well for the bunkers, (I noticed you'd missed a couple on holes 1 and 10), the greens were a bit iffy to begin with the bing imagery, so you might want to have a look at redoing them in OSM, and the big waste bunker on hole 5 you'd done in Esri anyway, so thats now out of line. Also don't forget to label holes 15 and 18.

[bobby22]

Will do thank you sir.

[hoosierhoops24]

Excellent visuals, champ39. I forgot to mention that there's a Youtube on creating Lidar courses done by nobleman that is excellent. There's a link to it somewhere on this site.