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Post by heafshcreet on Aug 10, 2019 6:50:04 GMT -5
Imagine if the PGA handled the anchored putter like trying to offset the flick swing with forced pro clubs. There is a group of players beating everyone with what the governing body of this tour considers an "unfair advantage" but instead of forcing them to adapt or penalizing them we will just increase the size of the cup to 8 inches to even the playing field.
As far as players that are "good" enough to flick and still pass the API? I don't know how hard or easy that is to do. How many people can pull that off? You see some scores that don't smell right but from my position I kind of have to accept the scores if the API does. That is why it's frustrating to see no punishment for the offenders.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2019 7:13:43 GMT -5
Why not just split it into a Master club tour and a pro club tour then? No one is then being forced to play a set they don’t want to. I’m sure most of the top pro club players could handle the PGA, Euro or Web course each week so have them use those same courses. If you want the challenge, play on the Master club tour. If you’re sick of the flickers or want an even playing field then play on the Pro club tour. This could be a solution. And it sounds a bit better that deny the chance to use the master clubs. It would be a compromise between a change and the status quo, but probably we don't have so many better options. I don't know if is actually possible to implement it, but probably yes, I suppose? And..do you what prefer, in this case? To give the chance to participate in both the tours or just to select in which tour to play? About short flickers, as I said above..i think simply that with the threat of a merciless punishment, this plague could almost disappears. Is a matter of how much we want to fight REALLY this thing, for me. You can only participate in one tour, make your bed and lay in it. You cant do merciless punishment for flickers as there are those that flick but dont get pulled by the api as they dont flick straight up. |
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Post by ezzinomilonga on Aug 10, 2019 7:22:15 GMT -5
Technically speaking, there is some way to see in some graphic reported by the API who plays using the short flick? Or is something the API can't detect at all?
I ask just cause if the API could show this kind of data but the problem is simply that we have not enough people to check every graphic, we couldn't implement a random checking system about a certain number of players per round and who is taken is simply out?
If this kind could be possible, honestly I would be happy to spend even hours, checking data to catch the cheaters. Honestly I would be ready to do everything to ruin their party.
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Post by paulus on Aug 10, 2019 8:35:52 GMT -5
Technically speaking, there is some way to see in some graphic reported by the API who plays using the short flick? Or is something the API can't detect at all? They can't detect it at all... the API provides a single number which indicates the deviation on the x-axis only. |
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Post by ohheycat on Aug 10, 2019 8:47:38 GMT -5
Technically speaking, there is some way to see in some graphic reported by the API who plays using the short flick? Or is something the API can't detect at all? I ask just cause if the API could show this kind of data but the problem is simply that we have not enough people to check every graphic, we couldn't implement a random checking system about a certain number of players per round and who is taken is simply out? If this kind could be possible, honestly I would be happy to spend even hours, checking data to catch the cheaters. Honestly I would be ready to do everything to ruin their party. You cant ascertain who is flicking just by looking at the api data. I suspect there are many people doing it without even realizing it's a thing, mostly on ps4, because even with it it is nearly impossible to fail the api check. I still fall into the camp that it is a problem with the game that makes the swing style a 'cheat', but the players doing it and have been doing it for some time, aren't doing anything necessarily wrong, until the game makes it wrong. It is an advantage though, and one that can not be reliably detected by any means we have. If you want to see a failing graphic, my post history contains what you're looking for, probably over a month ago now. I have since moved to bct and adopted a new swing. No desire to return to the pga whatsoever, and hoping the issue is resolved with the iteration. Just saying, mandatory pro clubs will limit the advantage of the flick  |
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Post by ezzinomilonga on Aug 10, 2019 10:03:48 GMT -5
Technically speaking, there is some way to see in some graphic reported by the API who plays using the short flick? Or is something the API can't detect at all? I ask just cause if the API could show this kind of data but the problem is simply that we have not enough people to check every graphic, we couldn't implement a random checking system about a certain number of players per round and who is taken is simply out? If this kind could be possible, honestly I would be happy to spend even hours, checking data to catch the cheaters. Honestly I would be ready to do everything to ruin their party. You cant ascertain who is flicking just by looking at the api data. I suspect there are many people doing it without even realizing it's a thing, mostly on ps4, because even with it it is nearly impossible to fail the api check. I still fall into the camp that it is a problem with the game that makes the swing style a 'cheat', but the players doing it and have been doing it for some time, aren't doing anything necessarily wrong, until the game makes it wrong. It is an advantage though, and one that can not be reliably detected by any means we have. If you want to see a failing graphic, my post history contains what you're looking for, probably over a month ago now. I have since moved to bct and adopted a new swing. No desire to return to the pga whatsoever, and hoping the issue is resolved with the iteration. Just saying, mandatory pro clubs will limit the advantage of the flick Thank you and paulus for the explanation. I suspected it couldn't be so easy  I'm anyway a bit skeptic about the fact that someone can take this advantage being not aware of doing something wrong. I mean..if someone realize that he's using a swing that allows to his ball to be always straight..there's no need to be De Coubertin to suspect that is a cheat. And this simply cause even someone with a IQ of 16, after 100 rounds, starts to understand how wind, slopes, distance and lie works, more or less. So the challenge, in this game, is EXACTLY to read all these things AND to hit always straight the ball in the same time. Without this, where is the challenge? And I also will never trust who says "yes but this is my natural swing". These are bullsh!Ts, for me. I bet that 100 players on 100 who takes in their hands for the first time a controller to hit a ball in any game of golf, will never try how could ever work a crooked short swing. It can happens only for a mistake. But if someone starts to use it until it became his "natural swing", it can be just for one reason : He's no good enough to play the game and, being a sad puppet who can't accept to lose, decided to gain this ridiculous advantage. There is not the shadow of innocence, here. Never. Is for this that I'm so pissed against who plays in this way. Is an insult to the hard work of every player to improve. And to a game BASED on fair play. Much more than any other, probably. Is for this. |
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Post by GW_Hope on Aug 10, 2019 10:16:59 GMT -5
You cant ascertain who is flicking just by looking at the api data. I suspect there are many people doing it without even realizing it's a thing, mostly on ps4, because even with it it is nearly impossible to fail the api check. I still fall into the camp that it is a problem with the game that makes the swing style a 'cheat', but the players doing it and have been doing it for some time, aren't doing anything necessarily wrong, until the game makes it wrong. It is an advantage though, and one that can not be reliably detected by any means we have. If you want to see a failing graphic, my post history contains what you're looking for, probably over a month ago now. I have since moved to bct and adopted a new swing. No desire to return to the pga whatsoever, and hoping the issue is resolved with the iteration. Just saying, mandatory pro clubs will limit the advantage of the flick Thank you and paulus for the explanation. I suspected it couldn't be so easy I'm anyway a bit skeptic about the fact that someone can take this advantage being not aware of doing something wrong. I mean..if someone realize that he's using a swing that allows to his ball to be always straight..there's no need to be De Coubertin to suspect that is a cheat. And this simply cause even someone with a IQ of 16, after 100 rounds, starts to understand how wind, slopes, distance and lie works, more or less. So the challenge, in this game, is EXACTLY to read all these things AND to hit always straight the ball in the same time. Without this, where is the challenge? And I also will never trust who says "yes but this is my natural swing". These are bullsh!Ts, for me. I bet that 100 players on 100 who takes in their hands for the first time a controller to hit a ball in any game of golf, will never try how could ever work a crooked short swing. It can happens only for a mistake. But if someone starts to use it until it became his "natural swing", it can be just for one reason : He's no good enough to play the game and, being a sad puppet who can't accept to lose, decided to gain this ridiculous advantage. There is not the shadow of innocence, here. Never. Is for this that I'm so pissed against who plays in this way. Is an insult to the hard work of every player to improve. And to a game BASED on fair play. Much more than any other, probably. Is for this. Amen Now if everybody who is pissed about it would post in HB forums they might admit there is a problem. www.hb-studios.com/forum/index.php/board,102.0.html |
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Post by xEB50x on Aug 10, 2019 10:34:32 GMT -5
Apologize in advance if I missed it, but have the results been filtered by platform anywhere? Curious how the XB1 crowd responded to the forced pro clubs vs. other platforms. Xbox here Euro tour, and I 100% want to play masters. I think the whole thought of the best players in the world would be laughable if they used pro clubs!!! The best players need to play with the most difficult set of clubs...period! I seriously think I would get bored of the game if I could sit down and hit p/p for a full round over and over, which would ultimately lead to me quitting the tours. That would be a sad day. Just say NO to pro clubs!!!! |
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Post by CuseHokie on Aug 10, 2019 11:25:31 GMT -5
Okay... gave Pro Clubs a try on this week's PGA course, no wind meter, high winds. Well I think the course itself made it that much less fun, as I couldn't reach many of the par4s... but what I was frustrated most with (and perhaps spending 10 hours more would fix to some degree), was the roll out on chips and flops. Just completely foreign... and of course with these green slopes, extremely punishing. I wasn't even close to breaking par. I also found it impossible to work a fast with the driver. I'm sure with the tempo margins being wider, that was probably why...
So I guess the next best option is to make a non-flicker flight on PGA? Have to provide visual evidence from an actual tour round, preferably one where you score well (top10, top25) so you don't rig the system...
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Post by rob4590 on Aug 10, 2019 11:29:02 GMT -5
So I guess the next best option is to make a non-flicker flight on PGA? Have to provide visual evidence from an actual tour round, preferably one where you score well (top10, top25) so you don't rig the system...
Would being that shiiiitttt that you don't actually have any events where you finished top 25 be good enough evidence? |
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Post by Todd on Aug 10, 2019 11:49:35 GMT -5
Apologize in advance if I missed it, but have the results been filtered by platform anywhere? Curious how the XB1 crowd responded to the forced pro clubs vs. other platforms. Xbox here Euro tour, and I 100% want to play masters. I think the whole thought of the best players in the world would be laughable if they used pro clubs!!! The best players need to play with the most difficult set of clubs...period! I seriously think I would get bored of the game if I could sit down and hit p/p for a full round over and over, which would ultimately lead to me quitting the tours. That would be a sad day. Just say NO to pro clubs!!!! This is my stance exactly, well said.😎 |
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Post by mrohde4 on Aug 10, 2019 11:55:24 GMT -5
mrohde4 - maybe I am naive. I never use ghosts or go out hunting for video feeds on players. The hunt for cheaters mentality would totally suck all the fun out of this game for me. But you are saying the short swing thing, when somebody means to do it” looks pretty much identical. That’s all news to me and you allude to controller mods to achieve such swing could be used. Again I never thought of that. I was of the idea that short swingers swings basically looked like a banana going from 5 o’clock to 1 o’clock and only spanning about the bottom 50% of the grid. And in order to do so they pulled back the stick when then flung it forward, just barely. Obviously I would agree that using a devise to create a swing is totally wrong. The rest of it I’m not sure. After all in TGC1 mouse players basically had to move their hand an inch or less to swing (almost like a twitch) and nobody called them cheaters. I use my right thumb only on the right stick. Hold the controller about 20 degrees left to compensate for the natural arch of your thumb. And pull back to the plastic and push forward to the plastic but let go as soon as forward contact is made. Otherwise, and due to a slight tremor which is amplified when I’m nervous, holding the stick at the front plastic results in a sort of T shaped swing which definitely impacts ball flight. But the fact I let go sometime results in the line only going up 80%, other times 90 or 100. Occasionally I get a 60 percent that actually has a tail coming back from top down. I remember in TGC1 I would pull back and slam the stick forward as hard as possible to overcome the tremor. Maybe that’s why it took me so long to get out of CC. Appreciate the discussion. The flick discovery wasn’t the result of “cheat-hunting” rather more of a stumble upon a troubling pattern. In previous TGC iterations, the swing line for flickers was extrapolated out based on the initial partial line. In TGC2019, the swing-to-result was altered to 1:1 of input to result. This is my amateur understanding of a complex process. First timers always always always touch both ends of the plastic. The backswing MUST touch the plastic, yet we’re supposed to believe that a partial downswing is proper? If the game was truly designed for shortswinging, they’d never sell one copy. The game would be too difficult. My best solution Is separate by flicking/non-flicking. If possible. Or put up a tab in similar fashion as consoles. Gonna require video submissions, but that wouldn’t violate anyone’s privacy. This is a private league. More work? Yes, and I volunteer my knowledge to help. Been around since 2015. Otherwise we have status quo and nobody is arguing the system isn’t broke. |
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Post by Warwick Todd on Aug 10, 2019 12:02:35 GMT -5
Okay... gave Pro Clubs a try on this week's PGA course, no wind meter, high winds. Well I think the course itself made it that much less fun, as I couldn't reach many of the par4s... but what I was frustrated most with (and perhaps spending 10 hours more would fix to some degree), was the roll out on chips and flops. Just completely foreign... and of course with these green slopes, extremely punishing. I wasn't even close to breaking par. I also found it impossible to work a fast with the driver. I'm sure with the tempo margins being wider, that was probably why... So I guess the next best option is to make a non-flicker flight on PGA? Have to provide visual evidence from an actual tour round, preferably one where you score well (top10, top25) so you don't rig the system... Your description of playing Pro clubs doesn’t sound like a bad thing. It would make courses play way more realistically, even once you’ve worked in your roll outs.. I don’t think anyone wants people shooting crazy scores. You’re a top player. Would like to hear how other top players went playing the PGA event using Pro. Just pretend someone nice®️ suggested it. |
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Post by CuseHokie on Aug 10, 2019 12:11:48 GMT -5
Okay... gave Pro Clubs a try on this week's PGA course, no wind meter, high winds. Well I think the course itself made it that much less fun, as I couldn't reach many of the par4s... but what I was frustrated most with (and perhaps spending 10 hours more would fix to some degree), was the roll out on chips and flops. Just completely foreign... and of course with these green slopes, extremely punishing. I wasn't even close to breaking par. I also found it impossible to work a fast with the driver. I'm sure with the tempo margins being wider, that was probably why... So I guess the next best option is to make a non-flicker flight on PGA? Have to provide visual evidence from an actual tour round, preferably one where you score well (top10, top25) so you don't rig the system... Your description of playing Pro clubs doesn’t sound like a bad thing. It would make courses play way more realistically, even once you’ve worked in your roll outs.. I don’t think anyone wants people shooting crazy scores. You’re a top player. Would like to hear how other top players went playing the PGA event using Pro. Just pretend someone nice®️ suggested it. Well I think the courses we play would have to be altered as well. Having 2x2 yard landing areas like this past week just aren't practical. Having 560 yard par4s wouldn't work either. I would even argue the ball physics would need to be tightened up by HB... they're not that realistic in 2019 like they were in TGC2. I see pros on tour sticking 5 irons... here that's a 10 yard roll out. |
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Post by Warwick Todd on Aug 10, 2019 12:57:17 GMT -5
Unless you’re hitting off an uphill lie and into a breeze to a green angled towards them like they probably were.
It would mean creators could make realistic courses that the top players would play well to be under par, and the top RCR’s wouldn’t be raped like they are now.
Doesn’t sound bad to me.
Just think of Masters as an overpowered, EA sports kind of thing, where they’re only a real challenge on XB, and to a lesser extent PC.
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