Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2019 10:57:20 GMT -5
Group D Results
1. Kilbourne Club 3-0-0
2. Whisperwood 2-1-0
3. Sandy Knee Golf Club 1-2-0
4. Saltshire Valley 0-3-0
Sandy Knee Golf Club vs. Whisperwood
JUDGE 1
Sandy Knee Golf Club brings back memories from the TGC1 days, when pinched landing areas and beacon strip fairways was the flavor of the month.
I really like the way this designer has created a really snug and cozy atmosphere to the entire course. The holes are built like corridors and doesn't take too kindly to off-tempo swingers. I really enjoy the look and feel of this design aspect.
I feel there are a number of issues with this course. The aforementioned beacon strip fairways being one of them and the odd use of O.B. being another. Throughout my rounds here I get the feeling of artificial difficulty that often border the unfair. The Greens are quite timid on the other hand so as long as you can keep your ball on the straight and narrow there are low scores for the taking. Favorite Hole #16
Whisperwood
Perhaps this course should change it's name to Snakewood as every fairway and every walkway carve through the landscape like a possessed reptile.
Whisperwood scores well with me in the technical and aesthetic categories and I really enjoyed looking at this well polished and cozy track all the way to the 19th hole back at the clubhouse. It reminded me a lot of a TGC2 course called Carls Bait Shop. A former Invicta entry if I'm not mistaken. Both beautiful courses that are executed perfectly.
The course did not score well however in the playability department for me. A big reason for this is because of how these fairways are designed. Beautiful to look at but the challenge if you want to call it that is the same on every hole. It might do a decent job at creating scoring variation in its current state, but a bit more variation would have been appreciated and in most places made a whole lot more sense. Favorite Hole #17
Summary:
With playability issues on both courses I give the edge to the technically superior Whisperwood. Even though these two courses looks very different and has completely different design philosophies behind them, they are in many aspects very much alike and are both good and bad in many of the same areas.
Winner: Whisperwood
JUDGE 2
Whisperwood has great playability although a very short course from the tips, even for a par 70 course. It played tougher than I expected. It's clean looking but suffers from the use of the same bunkers over and over. More variety would be nice and the use of heavy rough would have giving it a brighter look. Lighting a bit dark overall, but overall a fantastic job.
Sandy Knee has a nice look and views but playability was a little rough especially for the average golfer. Very tough pins and green sculpting. I think the designer was more aimed at PGA level course then anything.
These two courses were extremely close, but...
Winner: Whisperwood
Saltshire Valley vs. The Kilbourne Club
JUDGE 1
Saltshire Valley: I really don't know what to say about this course - first two holes were ok - maybe a bit autogen. But then we get to the 3rd hole - and it's a disaster - the green is utterly unplayable - 4/5ft slopes, up onto a plateau 10ft round around the pin - and if you miss, you roll off 30 yards down a hill. Next is a 700yd par 5 - where you lay up with hybrid - then can JUSt carry over a pond with 2 wood (but would struggle into any sort of strong wind)
Issues with sculpting (both greens, bunkers and the course in general), hole designs, the colour scheme is harsh on the eyes.
Kilbourne Club: Difficult then to fairly judge this one after Saltshire! Pros: A really nice course - loved the challenging greens. Very pleasant atmosphere, planting, hole design and strategy. Cons: 15th hole is not good - why does the fairway stop nearly 200yds from the green - missed fairway and you just hit and hope up into the heavy rough! Some of the edging between heavy rough and natural terrain is very jagged. A few transition issues from fairways to greens. Some greens get rather large!! So-so: Must be an aging membership here - every hole seems to have a few seats and shelters so they can have a break!
Winner: Kilbourne Club
JUDGE 2
NOTES TO COME
Winner: Kilbourne Club
Sandy Knee Golf Club vs. Saltshire Valley
JUDGE 1
Sandy Knee:
Not a fan of the massive greenside fairways... but that’s a personal taste. Really narrow fairway on the long par 4. I loved the look off of the 5th tee... but questioning the reason for the OB in the cross fairway ditch? Or any of these marshy areas for that matter. Really confused on how the cross section on 9 isn't OB if it was on 5 and 6?
Technically pretty sound... really question some playability questions though. Interested to see how others see this course.. I can see it being both positive and negative.
Saltshire:
Sculpting could use some massaging. Some pins generally too close to humps or edges of greens for my liking. Like the idea behind the 13th hole... didn't be afraid to angle the tee shot more to the left. Nailed the look on 17... could be a bit smoother on the tee box transition.. but it looks great out into the course.
Has some great ideas... just needs some massaging and attention to detail.
Winner: Sandy Knee
JUDGE 2
Sandy Knee:
Very tight pin on the 1st, 4th (pin 3). Oddly inconsistent tee box shapes…(see 3rd hole). Forced layup/OB is odd on the 5th, very penal greenside. Very penal OB on 6th, but par 3 so slightly less so, dropwise. Test of accuracy, not choice. 9th hole presents room for driver left, then penalizes the 2nd shot with a tree in the way. Forced layup on 14th seems manufactured, ‘waste area’ is just bare. Signature skill: teebox sightlines/framing. Standout signature hole: 16th
Saltshire Valley:
Borderline yellow around 1st (pin 4). Yellow on 2nd, too close to the edge of the green (1 square) (pin 4). Green on 3 is overdramatically sculpted. Cartpath too close to fairway on 4. Cartpaths could use some smoothing. Green on 4 is decently sculpted. Forced layups on a very long par 5 (5th). Green on 6th is a bit small, pin 4 gives no options to get close. Bunker sculpting could use work. Impossibly small green for a long iron on 8th. The 9th has a meaningless tee shot/2nd shot, since the goal is just to get to the end of the first fairway. The 3rd shot will be identical no matter how you play off the tee, there’s no other options. Nice teebox view on 14th, but a penal landing area on the fairway into a very difficult fairway bunker. This is a “good ideas” course with a lot of “needs refinement.” Sculpting overall is a little lumpy. Would have loved to have seen more planting. Inconsistent bunkering, green size and design made the course feel a bit disjointed. Nice teebox decor and clubhouse. Signature Skill: deep greenside bunkers. Signature Hole: 17
Winner: Sandy Knee
Whisperwood vs. The Kilbourne Club
JUDGE 1
Whisperwood:
Nice mix of sand and grass bunkers on 2. Well sculpted land. Nice consistent teebox shape, that are different than the norm, but do get a bit copy/pasted feeling. Too many cookie cutter ‘U’ and ‘O’ shaped bunkers - gets a bit samey/worn out feeling. Nice walking paths from tee boxes to fairways. With the serpentine fairways, I feel wind will affect playability more than pin position. I don’t see very many ways to approach the green, the tee shot is relatively dictated. Greens are well designed and sculpted. Green on 15 is a bit overdramatically sculpted. The 17th is the first time I felt like I had a choice off the tee. This is a well made course, but doesn’t have that next level gameplay. It is very enjoyable to play. Signature Skill: Serpentine fairways. Signature Hole: not sure
The Kilbourne Club:
Not sure if there was a good risk/reward on the 7th, just felt like forcing a very difficult 2nd shot. Would have liked to have seen more planting in the water on the 9th. Greens provide many different targets, but not many different approach vectors. Signature skill: sightlines and framing. Signature Hole: 9th
Winner: The Kilbourne Club
JUDGE 2
The Kilbourne Club:
Nice clubhouse/parking lot/entrance area. I like the framing of the first shot with fencing down both sides. I don't like shadows on the greens, avoid if at all possible. There was some rough sculpting around the water features. Surface transitions could be cleaner, and the outer heavy rough edges were inconsistent. Hole 5 has the split fairway but trees blocking the right side. That takes away the risk/reward opportunity and defeats the purpose of having that split fairway. I did manage to shape a drive around the trees one time with a favorable wind, but the trees basically take that choice away. I thought that was a missed opportunity. Hole 13 rewards 2 great shots, but by stopping the first fairway that soon, you've removed layup strategy, as well as recovery strategy if you miss the fairway off the tee. You've basically forced the player to go for the green in 2 with no option to lay up for a full wedge into the green. If you miss the fairway, your options are to punch out 70 yards and have 180+ for your 3rd, or try to carry 200+ from a bad lie to get near the green. I just didn't like that choice, and felt like the hole would be much better if you carried that fairway closer to the green so that a full wedge, or at least a short iron, is in play. Greens are sculpted with creativity, giving some good options for multiple pins. Course played well for the most part. Good variety in holes, and good replayability due to green sculpting. Good strategic options on many holes, but I felt like 5 and 13 took strategy away.
Whisperwood:
Course looks good overall, but gets dark in places due to low lighting and shadows.
No clubhouse area at all? I like to see a hole number on at least one of the following: a directional sign, tee marker, or flag. Without at least one of the three, you don't know what hole you're looking at if you look around. Nice clean textures. Simple bunker shapes, but nicely accentuated with the sculpting. The snaking fairways were too repetitive. Some of them made sense with bunkers and mounds, but others just seemed to snake for the sake of snaking. Having a cohesive feel to a course is good, but this was too repetitive and made every hole feel the same. That really hurt the replayability for me. Nice rock work on the ponds on 1 and between 7 and 8. I like the tee shot visual on 8, but a little more light would really make it pop more and accentuate the bunker closest to the green, which is almost hidden in the shadows. Adding a second bunker between that bunker and the pond could be a really intimidating look off the tee also. Hole 17, you can't see the 2 bunkers in front of the green from the tee. Tweaking the sculpting there to lower the land and accentuate the bunkers really changes the look of that shot. Cool short par 4 though. This is a good clean course with some good holes, it's just too repetitive with the snaky fairways making every hole feel so similar.
Winner: The Kilbourne Club
Sandy Knee Golf Club vs. The Kilbourne Club
JUDGE 1
Sandy Knee:
Not a fan of some of the ob placement (holes 5+6). Nice attempts on the sculpting in places, just needs a little more refinement.
The Kilbourne Club:
Bunker style was too repetitive. Although there's not a lot to make the course stand out, it’s a very solid design. Liked my round.
Winner: The Kilbourne Club
JUDGE 2
Sandy Knee Golf Club:
Hole 1 - Back tees and Pro clubs forces a wedge for the 2nd shot layup - not a fan. Creek banks not that natural looking. Nice waterfall. Rock wall in front of green needs more rocks or more plants. The approach is straight into the low sun. Still an interesting first hole. Hole 5 - Tight hole made worse by seemingly unnecessary out of bounds. Lovely retaining wall work. Hole 6 - Why is that OoB left? Pin1 is bl00dy close to the OoB. Feels unfairly penal, especially if someone doesn't look at the overhead. Again, lovely retaining wall work. Hole 9 - Why is the area to the left not OoB this time? More nice retaining wall work. Needs something to connect the tees with fairway. Feels like two forced layups. Rock work not natural looking - too many gaps. Hole 15 - Again why is this mulchy surface not OoB like some earlier holes? Rocks along water need some planting. Green a bit long. Hole 16 - Lovely hole. Easily my favorite on the course. Hole 17 - Creek looks unnatural - bright green grass one side & barren ground on the other. Interesting decision off the tee though. In certain light angles the green texture looks an odd blue green colour. Unsure how you get from tee to fairway on a number of holes. The lumpiness didn't always feel naturally planted - I would expect vegetation in the hollows in such a landscape.
The Kilbourne Club:
There are a couple holes where I was not a fan of the lakeside sculpting & general planting - in this sort of environment, where there is water there is usually vegetation. I liked the lighting on default. A very well put together course that has a very cohesive, parklands country club feel. I enjoyed playing this course but the holes sort of blur into one another and few stand out post round.
The winner is ... The Kilbourne Club
Whisperwood vs. Saltshire Valley
JUDGE 1
Whisperwood:
A solid course that is well-executed and offers a fun challenge. Designer knows how to present some good looks off the tee and on 2nd shots, plus the green design, I think, is fun. Negatives would be that the holes were all pretty same-y, and the planting was a bit sparse overall. I didn't really notice it in a good way...but I also didn't notice it in a bad way, which is good.
Saltshire:
Designer obviously needs some work with the tools, but did have some good hole ideas. Needs to better use lighting and sculpting to make holes "pop" more. I appreciate that the designer has tried to make the course as playable as possible, but it did end up being a little bit "feast or famine" with the sculpting...some areas are very flat while others are quite wild. There is definitely promise in the golf course itself though.
Winner: Whisperwood
Just a better looking and better playing course overall.
JUDGE 2
Whisperwood:
Very well presented although lighting package was a tad dark. Executed very well but very repetitive with use of single shape bunkers mixed with the same c shape ones. Although sculpted very well. Texture package was good and liked the flow of the holes. On the whole.
Definitely like to play it again although not overly difficult.
Saltshire valley:
Auto gen monster. Played it just to give designer time but doesn't deserve to be in a contest really.
Whisperwood takes round
