Epiphanic
Weekend Golfer
Posts: 77
TGCT Name: Nicholas Aakre
Tour: CC-Am/TST
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Post by Epiphanic on Nov 2, 2018 10:12:20 GMT -5
I wish there was more of an incentive for CC players to use Master clubs... like double promotion marks if you finish top 20 with Master clubs. This is ideally solved by picking courses/tee sets that allow Master Club users to exploit the benefits of the higher difficulty clubs. I believe the schedulers are going to try to do this (especially for CC-A). They want the people who earn promotion marks to be prepared for when they're "forced" to use Master Clubs once they get to Web. I used Master Clubs throughout Q-School and it looks like I'll be in CC-D. I'm sticking with the Master Clubs and will earn my promotions with them even if I'm not required to. |
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Post by CiB0RG on Nov 2, 2018 11:16:08 GMT -5
I wish there was more of an incentive for CC players to use Master clubs... like double promotion marks if you finish top 20 with Master clubs. This is ideally solved by picking courses/tee sets that allow Master Club users to exploit the benefits of the higher difficulty clubs. I believe the schedulers are going to try to do this (especially for CC-A). They want the people who earn promotion marks to be prepared for when they're "forced" to use Master Clubs once they get to Web. I used Master Clubs throughout Q-School and it looks like I'll be in CC-D. I'm sticking with the Master Clubs and will earn my promotions with them even if I'm not required to. The courses and tee sets used for both CC-Pro and CC-Am typically don't give any significant advantages to those willing to use the more difficult clubs. The courses and tee sets selected have to be playable for all the club sets. Not many courses are designed specifically to give the advantage to long bombers and the courses that are designed that way are too long or difficult to be played on the CC level. Those that choose to play with higher difficulty clubs in the CC flights B-Z are simply doing it because they enjoy the added challenge of Master clubs. Unfortunately they will not be gaining anything from choosing the higher difficulty and in my opinion are at a disadvantage when it comes to advancing to the next flight. I think that those CC players willing to grind it out with higher difficulty should be rewarded and able to move up to CC-A faster where they can compete with others using the Master clubs as opposed to a bunch of people using the Beginners clubs and throwing darts all day. |
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Post by ErixonStone on Nov 2, 2018 12:18:25 GMT -5
The courses and tee sets used for both CC-Pro and CC-Am typically don't give any significant advantages to those willing to use the more difficult clubs. The courses and tee sets selected have to be playable for all the club sets. We try to, where possible, set up a course (by choosing tees) so that a longer set of clubs has some advantage over the shorter set. For CC-Pro, we look at the differences between Pro Clubs and Master Clubs, while for CC-Am, we hone in on Pro and Beginner Clubs. As an example, take my own Bearded Pelican Golf Links (I'm using this as an example because I know it better than any other course, even though it's TGC2 only). From the tips, only players with Master Clubs could carry most of the hazards. Pro Club users had to lay back or risk aiming for a narrower landing area. Often this left them 30-40 yards behind Master Club users. Master Club users had 9I to a tucked pin while Pro Club users had a 6I. For CC-Am, we moved the tees up by 20 yards on several holes so that Pro Club users could carry hazards but Beginner Club users could not. We also softened the greens so Beginner Club users could stop their approaches. As you might expect, not every course provides this opportunity, or presents this opportunity in a way that is fair to Pro and Beginner Club users. When that happens, Pro and Beginner Club sets will probably have the advantage because we do have to consider playability for all and will move the tees appropriately. |
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Post by CiB0RG on Nov 2, 2018 12:49:00 GMT -5
The courses and tee sets used for both CC-Pro and CC-Am typically don't give any significant advantages to those willing to use the more difficult clubs. The courses and tee sets selected have to be playable for all the club sets. As you might expect, not every course provides this opportunity, or presents this opportunity in a way that is fair to Pro and Beginner Club users. When that happens, Pro and Beginner Club sets will probably have the advantage because we do have to consider playability for all and will move the tees appropriately. Agreed, as a "Tour" Club user on TGC2 I always enjoyed the courses that did have a few holes where I knew I had a chance to gain a stroke on the "Player" or "Standard" club users. I do recall early last season there was a course we were playing on CC-Am that was rumored to have a lot of hazards that could be carried by the Tour clubs but forced the Player club users to lay up. A few guys played practice rounds and warned others about it. (This was when I was writing weekly predictions in the forums) It was enough where some of the players (that were active on the forums) skipped that week because they felt like it was unfair to those that didn't play with Tour clubs. So clearly courses that have repeated advantages for long hitters don't sit well with everyone. On average I'd say the courses that go on the CC schedule are easy enough that the Pro or Beginner clubs are more ideal for scoring. Those looking to advance in the ranks are likely going to at least consider putting aside the Master clubs until they reach CC-A. Myself included. I just think it wouldn't be a bad idea to give the CC B-Z players a little more incentive to use Master clubs. Right now it is appearing to people that, if you are trying to advance in CC, there's not much of a point in using Master clubs and risking wayward shots when you can lower your difficulty and likely score a few strokes better. I hope none of this came across as a shot at the CC scheduling because you guys do an awesome job! I love the Challenge Circuit because in my opinion we play the best courses! |
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Post by hudsobrya on Nov 2, 2018 13:04:20 GMT -5
What would be the downside from the tours perspective (other than maybe complaining from the pro/beginner users) to doing the Top 10 masters users and Top 10 pro/beg users get promotion marks on CC-Am tour? Instead of the Top 20 no matter the club?
That would give people a reason to continue with masters and not feel like you will have to switch or pause your improvement with masters in order to move up the ranks
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Post by CiB0RG on Nov 2, 2018 13:12:26 GMT -5
What would be the downside from the tours perspective (other than maybe complaining from the pro/beginner users) to doing the Top 10 masters users and Top 10 pro/beg users get promotion marks on CC-Am tour? Instead of the Top 20 no matter the club?
That would give people a reason to continue with masters and not feel like you will have to switch or pause your improvement with masters in order to move up the ranks
I think that would take away from the immersive tournament feel. It would be like the Masters club players were only playing against the other Masters club users and Pro/Beginner just competing against other Pro/Beginner users. You want the entire field to be competing with everyone on their tour, not just others using the same difficulty. If there is ever an incentive made I think an extra promotion mark to Master club users would make sense. If someone is good enough with Master clubs to finish top 20 then they probably have enough skill to be moving up quicker. For example, this may not be the case for every player or every tournament course... but if a Master club user shoots -36 on the average CC-Am or Pro course and finished in the top 20. It would be hard to convince me that they couldn't have shot at least -40 with Pro clubs. |
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Post by steamerandy64 on Nov 2, 2018 14:59:38 GMT -5
The courses and tee sets used for both CC-Pro and CC-Am typically don't give any significant advantages to those willing to use the more difficult clubs. The courses and tee sets selected have to be playable for all the club sets. We try to, where possible, set up a course (by choosing tees) so that a longer set of clubs has some advantage over the shorter set. For CC-Pro, we look at the differences between Pro Clubs and Master Clubs, while for CC-Am, we hone in on Pro and Beginner Clubs. As an example, take my own Bearded Pelican Golf Links (I'm using this as an example because I know it better than any other course, even though it's TGC2 only). From the tips, only players with Master Clubs could carry most of the hazards. Pro Club users had to lay back or risk aiming for a narrower landing area. Often this left them 30-40 yards behind Master Club users. Master Club users had 9I to a tucked pin while Pro Club users had a 6I. For CC-Am, we moved the tees up by 20 yards on several holes so that Pro Club users could carry hazards but Beginner Club users could not. We also softened the greens so Beginner Club users could stop their approaches. As you might expect, not every course provides this opportunity, or presents this opportunity in a way that is fair to Pro and Beginner Club users. When that happens, Pro and Beginner Club sets will probably have the advantage because we do have to consider playability for all and will move the tees appropriately. Thought Bearded Pelican was on tgc2019 too. I'm sure i saw it somewhere. One of my favorite courses on tgc2. If it isn't, any plans to release it? |
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Post by ErixonStone on Nov 3, 2018 0:09:36 GMT -5
Thought Bearded Pelican was on tgc2019 too. I'm sure i saw it somewhere. One of my favorite courses on tgc2. If it isn't, any plans to release it? I used splines extensively on that course, and splines are fundamentally different in TGC2019. I think I'll just let that one go and build something better. |
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Post by pc17 on Nov 4, 2018 4:01:25 GMT -5
Why are some people so obsessed with club choice. In real life professional golfers can play with whatever clubs they feel comfortable with. I finished 3rd on the Q-School CC leader board using Pro Clubs and the players above me were using Beginners clubs - So What!
If this happens week-in-week-out on the tours, I won't be complaining that I'm at a disadvantage because people are using easier clubs..... I just want to enjoy playing this game with whatever clubs I'M comfortable with.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2018 7:09:29 GMT -5
Why are some people so obsessed with club choice. In real life professional golfers can play with whatever clubs they feel comfortable with. I finished 3rd on the Q-School CC leader board using Pro Clubs and the players above me were using Beginners clubs - So What! If this happens week-in-week-out on the tours, I won't be complaining that I'm at a disadvantage because people are using easier clubs..... I just want to enjoy playing this game with whatever clubs I'M comfortable with. Same here. I played Q-School with Pro Clubs knowing that I was putting myself at a disadvantage. It just felt sorta 'wrong' to be playing with the kids clubs (just kidding  ) and I practiced my ass off with Masters but just couldn't get them down (never got them down with TGC2 either). So basically you just end up on your own little 150-person Tour, rarely ever paying attention to the other Tours except maybe PGA and sometimes Euro. |
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Post by ErixonStone on Nov 4, 2018 19:13:05 GMT -5
Why are some people so obsessed with club choice. In real life professional golfers can play with whatever clubs they feel comfortable with. Because the Club Sets are out of balance. From the tee, the balance seems fair. From outside 94 yards, they seem fair. But get close to the green, and there's a big difference. It makes recovery from off the green much more difficult when you have Master Clubs compared to Pro Clubs. This goes for chipping, pitching and flopping. It puts the game in this weird state where it's caught in between balanced min-max choices, and true difficulty levels. The decision of the admins to force masters on all pro tours, and the stipulation that only master club users can earn promotion marks in CC-A put that tour in a weird state where the outright winners get a trophy, but players who might not have scored as well but used Master Clubs get the promotion rewards. Couple that with the fact that the 451st-best Master Club user is playing against the best Pro Club users - players that are presumably better - week in and week out. These just lead to a lot of really strong opinions on the matter. |
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Post by stlcardinals84 on Nov 4, 2018 19:44:01 GMT -5
Why are some people so obsessed with club choice. In real life professional golfers can play with whatever clubs they feel comfortable with. Because the Club Sets are out of balance. From the tee, the balance seems fair. From outside 94 yards, they seem fair. But get close to the green, and there's a big difference. It makes recovery from off the green much more difficult when you have Master Clubs compared to Pro Clubs. This goes for chipping, pitching and flopping. It puts the game in this weird state where it's caught in between balanced min-max choices, and true difficulty levels. The decision of the admins to force masters on all pro tours, and the stipulation that only master club users can earn promotion marks in CC-A put that tour in a weird state where the outright winners get a trophy, but players who might not have scored as well but used Master Clubs get the promotion rewards. Couple that with the fact that the 451st-best Master Club user is playing against the best Pro Club users - players that are presumably better - week in and week out. These just lead to a lot of really strong opinions on the matter. At some point, though, it just is what it is. The horse can only be beaten so many times. |
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Post by fadgewacker on Nov 4, 2018 20:09:15 GMT -5
Because the Club Sets are out of balance. From the tee, the balance seems fair. From outside 94 yards, they seem fair. But get close to the green, and there's a big difference. It makes recovery from off the green much more difficult when you have Master Clubs compared to Pro Clubs. This goes for chipping, pitching and flopping. It puts the game in this weird state where it's caught in between balanced min-max choices, and true difficulty levels. The decision of the admins to force masters on all pro tours, and the stipulation that only master club users can earn promotion marks in CC-A put that tour in a weird state where the outright winners get a trophy, but players who might not have scored as well but used Master Clubs get the promotion rewards. Couple that with the fact that the 451st-best Master Club user is playing against the best Pro Club users - players that are presumably better - week in and week out. These just lead to a lot of really strong opinions on the matter. At some point, though, it just is what it is. The horse can only be beaten so many times. You would think so... |
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Post by mrohde4 on Nov 4, 2018 22:23:23 GMT -5
Why are some people so obsessed with club choice. In real life professional golfers can play with whatever clubs they feel comfortable with. I finished 3rd on the Q-School CC leader board using Pro Clubs and the players above me were using Beginners clubs - So What! If this happens week-in-week-out on the tours, I won't be complaining that I'm at a disadvantage because people are using easier clubs..... I just want to enjoy playing this game with whatever clubs I'M comfortable with. This site offers a place for all players to compete in weekly tournaments for FREE. All difficulty levels have a place to compete, and zero money exchanges hands. What exactly are people missing out on? Nothing restricts users of the lower difficulty levels or non-TGCT players from joining the societies and enjoying the game as much as anyone else. |
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Post by Celtic Wolf on Nov 5, 2018 2:09:36 GMT -5
Why are some people so obsessed with club choice. In real life professional golfers can play with whatever clubs they feel comfortable with. I finished 3rd on the Q-School CC leader board using Pro Clubs and the players above me were using Beginners clubs - So What! If this happens week-in-week-out on the tours, I won't be complaining that I'm at a disadvantage because people are using easier clubs..... I just want to enjoy playing this game with whatever clubs I'M comfortable with. Some people just need to feel superior to others and feel safe in the knowledge that others have it easier than them. I couldn't care less what clubs others use as they all have their advantages and disadvantages. I think people should just enjoy the game and the TGC Tours set up that a lot of people put their spare time into making it work. |
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) and I practiced my ass off with Masters but just couldn't get them down (never got them down with TGC2 either). So basically you just end up on your own little 150-person Tour, rarely ever paying attention to the other Tours except maybe PGA and sometimes Euro.
