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Post by johneric on Jan 23, 2015 13:03:21 GMT -5
This is only my experience and in no way am I saying this is fact, but I've come to the conclusion that while TGC tours is doing what appears to be the best it can to try and keep things fair for all players, it seems that it times the line is very blurry.
I admittedly have only competed in Qschool (and qualified for my Euro card) But I haven't had a chance to play any of the tourny's yet but I've had time to observe scores with a keen eye. In no way do I think for a minute that all video gamers are created equally, but I'm not too sure that I want to spend my personal time playing in a tour where the people that organize and run the event are constantly putting up VERY LOW rounds and shooting consistent uncanny shots. Let me reiterate, that I'm not saying that any rules are being violated, I'm just stressing that I personally don't feel good about being a part of an event where the people heavily involved in the screening process (for straight shooters) and things of that nature are spanking everyone... I mean, who makes the decisions on them and their games? I've watched a few rounds of some of these amazing players to only see them using Sand Wedge glitches that enable them extreme distances when de-lofted as opposed to using the proper club by golf standards.
Why is it okay to do this, but not chip on the green? Now the TGC tours has decided too many people were chipping on the green and getting an advantage and now will be disqualified as a product of it I find this a bit tick tacky.. Am I someone who likes to chip on the green occasionally? Yes I do, but I try to putt as much as possible as well... I see some of this as cherry picking myself in regards to what you can and can't do... There is no rule against this in real life golf, even though it's not of great etiquette to do so.
I just want to say that my comments more or less come from an outside looking in perspective because I have not been active in the tour thus far, but have been watching closely. Personally the experience I did have in dealing with some of the people involved were positive and I have nothing bad to say about them.
Bottom line is lots of guys that I teamspeak with agree on these points, and there is lots of discussion going on about these things. I give credit to the guys at TGC tours for trying to put together a fun place to compete but I'm afraid there are too many little things that contribute to mark being missed in my humble opinion.
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Post by Pubknight on Jan 23, 2015 13:20:07 GMT -5
I've been involved in communities around video games before.
Was in an outfit that actually broadcasted competitive team vs team games.
I also played on a team.
TGC Tours is a fan/community site.
It makes sense that that the people behind it want to participate in it.
After all, that's likely the reason it started up in the first place.
Suspecting their motivations, or rulings, is way off base imho.
I have nothing to do with tgctours outside of playing in its tournaments.
But if I were them, I would say to you, "If that's the way you feel, you do not need to participate".
Because if you are saying the organizers shouldn't participate in what they have created (for free, with their own volunteer time) I think that is unreasonable, paranoid, and out of line.
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Post by schatuk on Jan 23, 2015 13:22:23 GMT -5
I've been involved in communities around video games before. Was in an outfit that actually broadcasted competitive team vs team games. I also played on a team. TGC Tours is a fan/community site. It makes sense that that the people behind it want to participate in it. After all, that's likely the reason it started up in the first place. Suspecting their motivations, or rulings, is way off base imho. I have nothing to do with tgctours outside of playing in its tournaments. But if I were them, I would say to you, "If that's the way you feel, you do not need to participate". Because if you are saying the organizers shouldn't participate in what they have created (for free, with their own volunteer time) I think that is unreasonable, paranoid, and out of line. Was trying to think how to phrase it, but I don't need to as you nailed it IMO |
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Post by johneric on Jan 23, 2015 13:33:02 GMT -5
I agree with what you're saying.. I think they should be able to compete since they've taken the time to create and run it... It's my decision to make whether or not I want to trust the process with my leisure time, or do something else different... Honestly, that is what I'm doing.. I'm having a blast playing online with my friends so in reality I've already made my personal choice... My thoughts were brought on by rules being implemented in regards to things like chipping on the green..
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Post by jwfickett on Jan 23, 2015 14:12:46 GMT -5
We were very lenient with chipping on the green for 3 weeks or more. But when people are chipping on the green from 15-20 feet away just to avoid having to read the break and putt it, that is gaming the system and removes the integrity and spirit of the rule. We had to take a brightline stance. Nothing more, nothing less. Every rule we implement has to be "policable" or else it's just hot air. So there you have it.
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Post by Tim on Jan 23, 2015 14:42:11 GMT -5
And of you referring to Doyley and his great scores -- you realize that we have tournament marshals on staff that are regular players that verify his rounds as well. Just so you know.
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IlludiumQ36
Weekend Golfer
Posts: 122 
TGCT Name: Tom Morgan
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Post by IlludiumQ36 on Jan 23, 2015 15:30:19 GMT -5
Doyley may smell funny, but his game is legit.
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Post by djdavefl on Jan 23, 2015 15:32:43 GMT -5
Tim, the "Founder and Developer" of TGC Tours, has yet to make a cut.
Not trying to poke Tim with a stick, and Job, is right there in the pack with me each week.
That tells me a lot about the integrity of this TOUR.
Doyley is a good player, I saw his scores on the Fall Tour he set up, he was good then, and remains good now.
Just like in real life, Golf is a game of integrity. Rules are made, the competitors follow the rules as laid down. The field polices itself. There are not rules officials handing out penalties, just interpret situations.
I am just a regular member here, and have no affiliation with anyone, while it may seem like the "fox guarding the hen house" I believe that these guys would not have spent the countless hours to create these TOURS just to see their name on top of the leaderboard.
Call me naive, but tt kinda makes me angry that someone might accuse them of being anything but above board.
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Post by jwfickett on Jan 23, 2015 15:49:30 GMT -5
Tim, the "Founder and Developer" of TGC Tours, has yet to make a cut. Not trying to poke Tim with a stick, and Job, is right there in the pack with me each week. That tells me a lot about the integrity of this TOUR. Doyley is a good player, I saw his scores on the Fall Tour he set up, he was good then, and remains good now. Just like in real life, Golf is a game of integrity. Rules are made, the competitors follow the rules as laid down. The field polices itself. There are not rules officials handing out penalties, just interpret situations. I am just a regular member here, and have no affiliation with anyone, while it may seem like the "fox guarding the hen house" I believe that these guys would not have spent the countless hours to create these TOURS just to see their name on top of the leaderboard. Call me naive, but tt kinda makes me angry that someone might accuse them of being anything but above board. Thanks, Dave. Agreed. Tim is 0-fer on cuts, I've made 1 and missed 2, and Doyley won q-school, and anyone who has ever played a round with him knows he hits the ball all over the place but is good at scrambling and putting, and that's why he scores well. Dale missed the cut this week, Scott W hasn't quite played up to the level he is capable of. Same with Jeff, although he's had a couple great rounds, but just struggling to find the consistency. We are not gaming the system by playing, and conflicts of interest is addressed specifically in our bylaws, which are free for anyone to read on the main website. |
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Post by steelereign on Jan 23, 2015 17:43:09 GMT -5
Johneric - I've been a regular member of HB Forums & TGC Forums for awhile and have seen many of your posts. You seem like a very personable dude and are mostly agreeable. However, it seems that you occasionally pop into the forums just to stir the pot...and to what end?
Your accusation that the founders of this tour are "gaming" or "glitching" the system is ridiculous and baseless. This kind of stuff irks me to no end. If you have no intention of playing in the Tour, why on Earth do you feel it necessary to fire off a post like that? In my opinion, and that of many others, this tour is one of the most professional online communities I've ever been a part of. Top notch in every way. Can it improve? Of course, inasmuch as any new organization go through growing pains.
As for chipping on the green? If a group of PGA players decided that they want to start chipping all over the greens because they no longer want to read long putts, I'm fairly certain that the PGA would put an end to that quickly. The reason that there is no rule against is because the players have the decency and good etiquette to putt except in extremely rare circumstances.
Rant complete.
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Post by johneric on Jan 23, 2015 18:12:00 GMT -5
Johneric - I've been a regular member of HB Forums & TGC Forums for awhile and have seen many of your posts. You seem like a very personable dude and are mostly agreeable. However, it seems that you occasionally pop into the forums just to stir the pot...and to what end? Your accusation that the founders of this tour are "gaming" or "glitching" the system is ridiculous and baseless. This kind of stuff irks me to no end. If you have no intention of playing in the Tour, why on Earth do you feel it necessary to fire off a post like that? In my opinion, and that of many others, this tour is one of the most professional online communities I've ever been a part of. Top notch in every way. Can it improve? Of course, inasmuch as any new organization go through growing pains. As for chipping on the green? If a group of PGA players decided that they want to start chipping all over the greens because they no longer want to read long putts, I'm fairly certain that the PGA would put an end to that quickly. The reason that there is no rule against is because the players have the decency and good etiquette to putt except in extremely rare circumstances. Rant complete. No dude, my post was a legit concern of mine not a pot stirring session. Trust me I'm far from alone in my thoughts because I've had these very discussions with other community members... I guess I'm the lone wolf, the guy no one wants to be... Look, I'm someone who likes everyone and I try to be kind, but just because I'm not keen on the way something is run or handled doesn't mean I'm stirring the pot. It's obvious that I'm on my own Island in my view point.. Or at least typed viewpoint... If I'm wrong I'm wrong, I can deal with that too... And to your point in regards to PGA tour players would eventually get slapped if they continued to chip on the green- We can only speculate on what would happen there who knows... I do understand trying to keep things fair, after all that is where my original thoughts come from... At the end of the day, TGCtours can do whatever the heck they want with their system and I 100% respect their right to do so, that doesn't mean that I have to agree or like the decision. This is a video game and there are many people that are limited in skill, practice time, eyesight, computer systems, tv's ETC.. All of this has an affect on what shot selection they choose to take to obtain a round they're proud of. |
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Post by Mitchblue on Jan 23, 2015 18:16:01 GMT -5
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Post by Tim on Jan 23, 2015 18:17:25 GMT -5
That still has me laughing.... |
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Post by SmilingGoats on Jan 23, 2015 19:07:24 GMT -5
I'm just getting home and getting caught up on the days postings. Fun reading.
Johneric, you've waged some pretty large (though immensely vague) accusations in not one but two threads today. If you'd like a frank conversation, I'll be happy to have one. Send me a private message about Doyley or any one else for whom you have formed an opinion but don't come to our forums and lob innuendo for the sake of pot-stirring. It's quite off-putting. You seem to have concerns...let's deal with them appropriately.
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Post by steelereign on Jan 23, 2015 19:09:43 GMT -5
Johneric - I've been a regular member of HB Forums & TGC Forums for awhile and have seen many of your posts. You seem like a very personable dude and are mostly agreeable. However, it seems that you occasionally pop into the forums just to stir the pot...and to what end? Your accusation that the founders of this tour are "gaming" or "glitching" the system is ridiculous and baseless. This kind of stuff irks me to no end. If you have no intention of playing in the Tour, why on Earth do you feel it necessary to fire off a post like that? In my opinion, and that of many others, this tour is one of the most professional online communities I've ever been a part of. Top notch in every way. Can it improve? Of course, inasmuch as any new organization go through growing pains. As for chipping on the green? If a group of PGA players decided that they want to start chipping all over the greens because they no longer want to read long putts, I'm fairly certain that the PGA would put an end to that quickly. The reason that there is no rule against is because the players have the decency and good etiquette to putt except in extremely rare circumstances. Rant complete. No dude, my post was a legit concern of mine not a pot stirring session. Trust me I'm far from alone in my thoughts because I've had these very discussions with other community members... I guess I'm the lone wolf, the guy no one wants to be... Look, I'm someone who likes everyone and I try to be kind, but just because I'm not keen on the way something is run or handled doesn't mean I'm stirring the pot. It's obvious that I'm on my own Island in my view point.. Or at least typed viewpoint... If I'm wrong I'm wrong, I can deal with that too... And to your point in regards to PGA tour players would eventually get slapped if they continued to chip on the green- We can only speculate on what would happen there who knows... I do understand trying to keep things fair, after all that is where my original thoughts come from... At the end of the day, TGCtours can do whatever the heck they want with their system and I 100% respect their right to do so, that doesn't mean that I have to agree or like the decision. This is a video game and there are many people that are limited in skill, practice time, eyesight, computer systems, tv's ETC.. All of this has an affect on what shot selection they choose to take to obtain a round they're proud of. So, is your post meant to suggest that the organizers of this tour are cheating or not? If so, I stand by my original statement that it's completely unfounded and incendiary. If not, then I offer my apologies. Of course, we all have a right to our opinions, but if I felt as you do I wouldn't make a post directed at those that are busting their arses to put this together, suggesting that they are cheating. If, as you said, you respect those that run this tour, why do you attack them? |
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