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Post by HeMan1202 on Sept 13, 2017 12:03:09 GMT -5
Windmills!!??! Seriously the man is such a bellend. I see he also doesn't ever want to use the newer term of Climate Change - holding onto the old moniker of Gobal Warming as that's easier to defend against. When NY gets some snow I guarantee it'll be... "Look at all this snow. And they say Global Warming is real!" They will blame it on gay people. The base are a bunch of loons and believe any concocted story. Gotta love the right wing. They openly state they have the stupid support locked up, yet the stupid are to stupid to see they are being played. I loved the Trump supporter mayor of Tangier Island standing in the middle of his sinking island stating unequivocally that there is absolutely no evidence of climate change. Then there is the residents, pro Trump supporters, who believe Trump will save them. Their religious beliefs will not allow them to believe they are more likely to grow gills before that Island is saved by Trump. It's funny, but it is sad as well. How do these people even function? I seem to function pretty well, thanks. That story is funny and sad. Almost as funny and sad as the one about a guy who was banned from a video game golf site only to create another account, then got caught again! Man, good times.
Sorry, judging by your post I thought we were now on to personal attacks and name calling. But what do I know, I am just a stupid loon who hates gay people.
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Post by golferdude1994 on Sept 13, 2017 12:45:21 GMT -5
Merely a suggestion, but could we lock this thread? In terms of getting out of hand, we are rapidly approaching that point. It went from a civilized debate of two sides to now name calling is starting to pop to the front.
Political views aren't really going to persuade anyone anyway, so before we damage any friendships, lets agree to lock this thread, and agree to disagree.
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Post by paulus on Sept 13, 2017 12:56:20 GMT -5
1 post. Jason's reaction to it has put things back in place I think.
I regret calling Trump a bellend which prompted it - so that's on me. But the thread has been very positive overall.
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Post by golferdude1994 on Sept 13, 2017 12:58:42 GMT -5
1 post. Jason's reaction to it has put things back in place I think. I regret calling Trump a bellend which prompted it - so that's on me. But the thread has been very positive overall. Thats good then. Carry on. |
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Post by Timbr0_T on Sept 13, 2017 13:00:24 GMT -5
Merely a suggestion, but could we lock this thread? In terms of getting out of hand, we are rapidly approaching that point. It went from a civilized debate of two sides to now name calling is starting to pop to the front. Political views aren't really going to persuade anyone anyway, so before we damage any friendships, lets agree to lock this thread, and agree to disagree. It's in off topic - don't know about anyone else but I've learned quite a bit from some of the posts here. 99% of it has been respectful (when it could very easily not be). It's interesting to see perspectives from different parts of the world. I'm not American but I spend a lot of time in the States. I am no longer surprised that many of the kindest, most welcoming, genuine, considerate people I have met are Trump supporters or from areas where he is heavily favoured. Upsetting that these folks continue to fanatically support an administration that will do them great harm in the long run. They turn a blind eye or excuse the countless errors, hypocrisies and misjudgements of this administration when clearly such things would never be acceptable in their own family/small business/church etc. There is a massive disconnect here that as an outsider I don't understand. |
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Post by HeMan1202 on Sept 13, 2017 13:15:01 GMT -5
1 post. Jason's reaction to it has put things back in place I think. I regret calling Trump a bellend which prompted it - so that's on me. But the thread has been very positive overall. I have zero issues with you (or anyone) offering your opinion on Trump as a President and as a person.
No need to personally insult someone or a group because they support or voted for him though. It was a decision made and everyone has their reasons. I actually had no issues with any of Steve's post up until that one. He seems like a very intelligent guy.
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Post by joegolferg on Sept 13, 2017 13:30:59 GMT -5
Merely a suggestion, but could we lock this thread? In terms of getting out of hand, we are rapidly approaching that point. It went from a civilized debate of two sides to now name calling is starting to pop to the front. Political views aren't really going to persuade anyone anyway, so before we damage any friendships, lets agree to lock this thread, and agree to disagree. Another politics thread would follow instantly. It seems we have a wing of TGCT users that want a place to debate politics, economics etc. Everything has been sensible so far. |
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Post by nevadaballin on Sept 13, 2017 14:19:21 GMT -5
Merely a suggestion, but could we lock this thread? In terms of getting out of hand, we are rapidly approaching that point. It went from a civilized debate of two sides to now name calling is starting to pop to the front. Political views aren't really going to persuade anyone anyway, so before we damage any friendships, lets agree to lock this thread, and agree to disagree. Some of us want to have these discussions. My focus is 100% about policies because at the end of the day, what becomes implemented and what doesn't is the important stuff. I have no desire to go after people who support Trump - although I will challenge them about policies and why they support them. If they cannot have a logical discussion about policy then I continue on. Nothing wrong with it in an Off topic section. It isn't mandatory reading. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2017 14:30:00 GMT -5
Ok I apologize if that offended anyone. However hear me out for a second. Each and every time that administration makes another play from the playbook of Hitler, it drives me bat-sh%$ crazy to witness how that part of History can so easily play out again. It's been 80 fckn years. Have we not even evolved beyond that point where to this day, we could still elect such a leader. I'm not suggesting he will play the whole book, but he could, and if he did, his support probably would not suffer for a second and likely would grow. That is scary to the world as it seems there is absolutely no line he can cross where it then becomes a discussion regarding his removal and/or incarceration.
This is not OK with the rest of the world.
Turning a discussion on the science of Climate change into a discussion on Gay people to most would seem retarted. Sorry for the use of such a derogatory term, but seriously, that is remarkable, but it's fckn working. But 20% of that population believe the world is flat as well, so maybe I should not be so surprised and amazed.
Sorry again, I'll try and refrain from such comments regarding his base in the future.
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Post by AFCTUJacko on Sept 13, 2017 14:57:29 GMT -5
As much as the Lib Dems made mistakes, that government was far better than what we have now.
And not only did they prop up the Tory agenda, they then promptly didn't press any of their own agenda items at all - famously ceding key areas all together. Loads of young people voted for them on the back of tuition fees - and were betrayed - that's the only word that can be used. Twas a stupid pledge - one from a party that clearly never really considered they might be in government. Got to say though, i do think they've been punished far more than almost any other political party to have broken a promise (and that's all of them). Almost like they are held to higher standards than the big two. Promising too big is the biggest potential downfall of the Corbyn project IMO. He offers something radically different, which is good, but his election campaign did end up being "We'll give you X, Y & Z if you vote for us, and only the very richest (Top 5%) will have to foot the bill". Which IMO is undeliverable. All too easy to say it from opposition when you expect to lose, different when you have to actually do it. The reality is that to roll back the worst of the Tory cuts & have a top class NHS etc, most of us will have to pay a little bit more. I think that's fine, and actually think most people would agree. |
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Post by paulus on Sept 13, 2017 15:15:18 GMT -5
Got to say though, i do think they've been punished far more than almost any other political party to have broken a promise (and that's all of them). Almost like they are held to higher standards than the big two. I think we agree on a lot. But likely to always disagree on this one. They were kicked heavily... for... aiding the Tories .....and the Lib Dem base told them never to do that again in no uncertain terms. Any. Other. Party. |
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Post by paulus on Sept 13, 2017 15:36:34 GMT -5
Ok I apologize if that offended anyone. However hear me out for a second. Each and every time that administration makes another play from the playbook of Hitler, it drives me bat-sh%$ crazy to witness how that part of History can so easily play out again. It's been 80 fckn years. Have we not even evolved beyond that point where to this day, we could still elect such a leader. I'm not suggesting he will play the whole book, but he could, and if he did, his support probably would not suffer for a second and likely would grow. That is scary to the world as it seems there is absolutely no line he can cross where it then becomes a discussion regarding his removal and/or incarceration. This is not OK with the rest of the world. Turning a discussion on the science of Climate change into a discussion on Gay people to most would seem retarted. Sorry for the use of such a derogatory term, but seriously, that is remarkable, but it's fckn working. But 20% of that population believe the world is flat as well, so maybe I should not be so surprised and amazed. Sorry again, I'll try and refrain from such comments regarding his base in the future. Generalising can be a useful shortcut, but when it attempts to ascribe negative attributes & motives to large numbers - that is always bigotry. It's easy to get drawn into that trap - we all do from time to time. And I'm a sucker for a genuine apology - takes a lot of guts, so thumbs up. I would advise against drawing Hitler parallels - they only hurt any case you'd want to make. These plays are not drawn from Hitler's "playbook" - there is no such thing - and the use of diversionary political spin (aka Propoganda) predates him by quite some time. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2017 16:40:12 GMT -5
Paulus, I beg to differ. I'm not smart enough to make this up. Mr Rosenbaum who wrote "Explaining Hitler: The Search for the Origins of His Evil" is the one making the comparison. There is a playbook, it is Mein Kampf. Lets take a look at a few quotes from Mr Rosenbaum. “Hitler’s method was to lie until he got what he wanted, by which point it was too late," Mr Rosenbaum said, adding there is no comparison between Hitler and Mr Trump in terms of scale. But, he said, it was important to see that, like Hitler, Mr Trump is "defining mendacity down" by normalizing lies and lowering expectations of truthfulness. The author continued with a caution: "Trump’s outrageous conduct and shamelessly lying mouth seemed so ridiculous we wouldn’t have to take him seriously. Until we did.” "You can’t find him guilty of evil, you can’t find him at all. And the tactics worked. Trump was not taken seriously, which allowed him to slip by the normal standards for an American candidate. The mountebank won. Again.” “Cut to the current election. We had heard allegations that Trump kept Hitler’s speeches by his bedside, but somehow we normalised that".
There are lots of other comparisons to make. Trump is not the first politician I agree to play from the playbook, won't be the last either, but in modern times, they usually stop short of the crazy stuff.
And this ""If I were to run, I'd run as a Republican. They're the dumbest group of voters in the country. They believe anything on Fox News. I could lie and they'd still eat it up. I bet my numbers would be terrific." Ok went viral the above was fake. However, he did not say that in an interview with people magazine, which caused the media to widely publish the quote as fake. But he did in fact say that on the Howard Stern Show.
I get it though, you can try and coddle and educate, but IMHO, that is pointless. That said, I'm as much about getting rid of these fcktards career politicians as the next guy. These crooked folk on the dole and the payroll of big corp. I really wish someone would come along like a Trump and turn it all upside down. I'M IN. But Trump, is the polar opposite of that. I'm not good with polar opposite of that, that is frying pan to fire.
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Post by nevadaballin on Sept 13, 2017 17:14:19 GMT -5
Paulus, I beg to differ. I'm not smart enough to make this up. Mr Rosenbaum who wrote "Explaining Hitler: The Search for the Origins of His Evil" is the one making the comparison. There is a playbook, it is Mein Kampf. Lets take a look at a few quotes from Mr Rosenbaum. “Hitler’s method was to lie until he got what he wanted, by which point it was too late," Mr Rosenbaum said, adding there is no comparison between Hitler and Mr Trump in terms of scale. But, he said, it was important to see that, like Hitler, Mr Trump is "defining mendacity down" by normalizing lies and lowering expectations of truthfulness. The author continued with a caution: "Trump’s outrageous conduct and shamelessly lying mouth seemed so ridiculous we wouldn’t have to take him seriously. Until we did.” "You can’t find him guilty of evil, you can’t find him at all. And the tactics worked. Trump was not taken seriously, which allowed him to slip by the normal standards for an American candidate. The mountebank won. Again.” “Cut to the current election. We had heard allegations that Trump kept Hitler’s speeches by his bedside, but somehow we normalised that". There are lots of other comparisons to make. Trump is not the first politician I agree to play from the playbook, won't be the last either, but in modern times, they usually stop short of the crazy stuff. And this ""If I were to run, I'd run as a Republican. They're the dumbest group of voters in the country. They believe anything on Fox News. I could lie and they'd still eat it up. I bet my numbers would be terrific." Ok went viral the above was fake. However, he did not say that in an interview with people magazine, which caused the media to widely publish the quote as fake. But he did in fact say that on the Howard Stern Show. I get it though, you can try and coddle and educate, but IMHO, that is pointless. That said, I'm as much about getting rid of these fcktards career politicians as the next guy. These crooked folk on the dole and the payroll of big corp. I really wish someone would come along like a Trump and turn it all upside down. I'M IN. But Trump, is the polar opposite of that. I'm not good with polar opposite of that, that is frying pan to fire. Trump is more of a bullshttr than a liar. Fareed Zakaria wrote a nice article about it. The gist was that a liar actually knows what the truth is and a bullshttr has no idea, they just wing it making stuff up as they go just to sound good. But he is turning into quite a liar now also. That now makes him an official "politician"  |
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Post by paulus on Sept 13, 2017 17:59:40 GMT -5
I'm not smart enough to make this up. Mr Rosenbaum who wrote[...] Well argued and a reputable source, but his conclusions are drawn too far imho. Essentially Rosenbaums' thesis boils down to "Trump uses buffoonery to confuse and avoid political judgment. And so did Hitler. Trump is pulling from Hitlers playbook". That's a logical fallacy. And it's an overused one at that. So many World leaders have been dubbed the next Hitler it's not funny - because it downplays the real significance of what Hitler did and also reduces our acuity to the signs - you know, the boy who cried wolf.... Here's the counter example: Boris Johnson from our fine UK shores is a buffoon of the highest order. And he's used it to obtain very high office without consequence - currently our Foreign Minister  He's many things, but he's not like Hitler or pulling from Hitler's "playbook"... And neither imho is Trump. He's not calculated enough. The analogy is unhelpful in dealing with a man who presents very different challenges... |
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He's many things, but he's not like Hitler or pulling from Hitler's "playbook"...