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Post by Doyley on Jul 25, 2017 9:22:12 GMT -5
One last one would the tee off and woods of fairways have a multiplier then because the line in the cone is easier to hit straight on a putt than with a driver off the tee. So as you said putting is 1:1 would teeing off be something like 2.5:1 or 2:1 Yes, all shots have some form of multiplying effect outside of putts |
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Post by AFCTUJacko on Jul 25, 2017 9:23:11 GMT -5
I imagine the graphs show controller inputs only. The input would be the same regardless of what clubs you're using, but the game would give you a more forgiving result on an easier mode Assuming thats true, that would imply no difference to the results for a person on standard vs. Tour correct? Same next-to-no chance of hitting Red? Same overall likelihood of hitting within the same number range? If that is true, then everyone just ignore the entire first part of what I said No expert, but I think that would be the case. It's just the Standard player might see a straight line on screen when the same input on tour mode would have resulted in a crooked line
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Post by Doyley on Jul 25, 2017 9:25:35 GMT -5
Assuming thats true, that would imply no difference to the results for a person on standard vs. Tour correct? Same next-to-no chance of hitting Red? Same overall likelihood of hitting within the same number range? If that is true, then everyone just ignore the entire first part of what I said No expert, but I think that would be the case. It's just the Standard player might see a straight line on screen when the same input on tour mode would have resulted in a crooked line
The swing results are consistant for all club types - the difference is on standard clubs 0.025 would be the start of the Orange zone (ie huge orange zone/forgiving swing) - 0.025 just a guess on my part but you get the idea. |
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Post by Slymas on Jul 25, 2017 9:26:17 GMT -5
One last one would the tee off and woods of fairways have a multiplier then because the line in the cone is easier to hit straight on a putt than with a driver off the tee. So as you said putting is 1:1 would teeing off be something like 2.5:1 or 2:1 Yes, all shots have some form of multiplying effect outside of putts Thanks Doyley this gives me a lot of insight on how to read those charts properly to determine how hard it is to hit those zones. I know our stream didn't go down well 😉 But you've been very helpful here and atleast you gave us a chance, which I was surprised lasted that long 😂😂 |
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Post by SweetTeeBag on Jul 25, 2017 9:33:14 GMT -5
It's also a case of creating a sandbox for acceptable/fair play. Users that have a 3rd party controller that don't go past 0.010 aren't cheating. They are using their controller and the results it gives them is very forgiving. But is it fair? We have to decide how big a sandbox we want to create so that the most people can have a fair/fun time building a castle (aka playing on our tours). Just know that the straighter the controller the more sand they take eventually leaving no sand for the majority of players if we make it too big (ie include all controllers). What's the point of playing in a sand box if 5% of the users have all the sand? I would like you guys to share Round 1 of the Good Beer Open I played on PC with the Logitech F310. I want to know what that shows as it is pretty deadly. Like you said not dead straight but I am sure it will show me not missing by much on most everything |
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Post by SmilingGoats on Jul 25, 2017 9:35:51 GMT -5
would like you guys to share Round 1 of the Good Beer Open I played on PC with the Logitech F310. I want to know what that shows as it is pretty deadly. Like you said not dead straight but I am sure it will show me not missing by much on most everything  |
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Post by Macs Power on Jul 25, 2017 9:39:44 GMT -5
This data is amazing
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Post by xraylucy on Jul 25, 2017 9:40:33 GMT -5
would like you guys to share Round 1 of the Good Beer Open I played on PC with the Logitech F310. I want to know what that shows as it is pretty deadly. Like you said not dead straight but I am sure it will show me not missing by much on most everything red flags!! |
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Post by B.Smooth13 on Jul 25, 2017 9:48:57 GMT -5
After a bit of thought, for what it's worth, here are my 2 cents...
Outside of the obvious straight shooter (player A I think, without looking), without context, it is impossible to state with high confidence that there is something fishy going on. To be clear, I'm not talking about confidence intervals or taking X number of standard deviations away from the mean, because in my mind, this clearly isn't a data-only question. As we all know, there are going to be folks who are either unknowingly using one of the much discussed "off brand" controllers, or - and I think we'll find this one more often - play with an angle snapping mouse and haven't even heard the term "angle snapping" before, let alone how to figure out if it's on/off. So, where does that leave us?
My hope would be, without having any idea if it has been happening, that the admins here have been looking through this data, contacting the people who's numbers look out of the norm, and by doing so have been gathering information to better inform their understanding of this system. I believe that's one benefit of our delayed start, and I suspect was a driving force behind the delay apart from waiting for patches. Obviously these conversations, assuming they have been happening, are taking place in private as they should be - but without that full understanding of what is happening beyond these simplified data charts, I don't think any of us can make a well informed decision about a particular player beyond the obvious straight shooter.
I understand and respect the move to have a civil discussion on the topic, and appreciate the level of transparency that has been provided. I also understand there is no way to share all of the pertinent information as it would be entirely inappropriate - both in sharing private discussions with players and revealing all of the data provided through the API. Again, though, without having all the information which allows for a well informed opinion, I think it's dicey for the rest of us to begin making concrete judgements about what is happening behind the small snapshot of data we've been shown.
I, for one, will trust whatever decision is made because those making it are the guys who have the most knowledge of the subject. There is no perfect answer here, and I guess I fall on the side of not wanting to marginalize some in the community by telling them to spend $50+ on a new controller or they're out. Without question, perfect straight shooters should be barred, and I think that's the only concrete standing that can be said with high confidence at this point. Setting an arbitrary threshold for the number of straight shots acceptable in a round, however, is a difficult question that I don't believe those of us on the outside have enough background information - or a full enough understanding of the variables at play outside of our own experience - to make.
So I guess overall, main suggestion for the admins is simple: trust your judgement. It is a smart move to request input from community members, because when this is all said and done, there are undoubtedly going to be people who are not happy, regardless of what decision is made. I also believe that most here appreciate your willingness to do so. That said, take our opinions into account, but ultimately make the decision you feel is best, because you know a hell of a lot more about what's going on than we do.
Edit: PS, sorry for the novel, just realized how long this is...
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Post by KenTremendous on Jul 25, 2017 9:49:48 GMT -5
Theres one for the banned controller list...
Stock simply cannot get anywhere close to competing with that.
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Post by B.Smooth13 on Jul 25, 2017 9:52:34 GMT -5
would like you guys to share Round 1 of the Good Beer Open I played on PC with the Logitech F310. I want to know what that shows as it is pretty deadly. Like you said not dead straight but I am sure it will show me not missing by much on most everything Well after writing all of that, this is the type of "extra information" I was alluding to. The chart in itself is sketchy, but then knowing there is a 3rd party controller, you can be more confident in understanding the "why" behind the data. Thanks for sharing. |
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Post by mde8965 on Jul 25, 2017 9:54:07 GMT -5
Red flags above for sure. I think what I'm trying to point out is that the admin's are going to have a tough time with that. Even though it looks definitely suspect. Let's say that The admis emailed the user of the controller. But the user says "gee I don't know I'm using a stock Xbox 360 controller. I don't know what's going on". Whether that's true or not who knows. But the problem is then does the admin say too bad so sad you're flagged as a cheater or you are banned or whatever? If I'm reading that graph right there were no pixel perfect swings. But not a lot of standard deviation either. And several repeated exact swings that we're not perfect. I'm not questioning the data at all I'm just questioning how in the heck do you figure out how to police that and do it fairly? You either go gestapo and turn a lot of people away or you get lenient and just deal with the fact that there's going to be people that work the system. I am trying to put myself in their place and I can honestly say I have no idea what I would do. I think this is the kind of feedback they're looking for. I think they have all the data they could need but they're not sure how to go about using it. That's why they started this thread I think.
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Post by paulus on Jul 25, 2017 9:55:43 GMT -5
SweetTeeBag has been a very good sport - he knows that he has an advantage with the controller and has been open about it. But you will note one thing from his graphs - no shots counted as perfect! If you ever play a round against his ghost tho... you'd say different! His controller would not be flagged under Smurf's rules - hence why we do need to move into looking at the statistics of deviation from the normal to get a fairer more level playing field.
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Post by Doyley on Jul 25, 2017 9:56:24 GMT -5
would like you guys to share Round 1 of the Good Beer Open I played on PC with the Logitech F310. I want to know what that shows as it is pretty deadly. Like you said not dead straight but I am sure it will show me not missing by much on most everything This is a case where the user will say that not all his shots are straight. But they don't miss the cone either. If you take his 0.005 shot (straight white line off tee) and put it in a red slope lie - it won't be a straight line. But it will still be inside the slim red cone. This user would have no issues recovering from any lie they find themselves in unless they hit their one 0.02-0.0225 shot - in that case they might miss the cone/shank if it happened in a red slope. This is where you'll hear them say "I can miss the cone from time to time". All of this makes sense to the end user because they are telling the truth. It's just an advantage that we have to decide to include/exclude. |
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Post by tastegw on Jul 25, 2017 9:56:49 GMT -5
Boy am I glad I suck at this game. LOL. All kidding aside, I don't envy the job that the admins have ahead of them. I can only trust that they'll do the right thing. I live in a world of "guilty beyond a reasonable doubt" and a lot of those posted results just don't fit that criteria in a court of law. I think the analogy is badly drawn tbh - we're talking about numbers - about which statistical certainties can be drawn. thats fascinating considering the fact that around that same percentage of players are cheats across the board in all games combined. its like a word you can spell correctly both backwards and forwards. Palindrome: 4% of charged are innocent, 4% of uncharged are guilty! |
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International Record: 7-0-0
