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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2017 10:13:18 GMT -5
A controller that I am sure a lot of people (not me) think should be banned. I think it's fine. Why? It's not a straight shooter. There IS deviation. The chart PROVES there's deviation. Because it's clearly far less sensitive than a stock controller and gives the player using it a massive advantage. The deviations on that graph are so tiny they would result in shots that were to all intents and purposes dead straight
This whole discussion isn't about zero deviation - it's about people using easier controllers or fiddling with equipment to give themselves far less deviation than someone using out of the box equipment.
It's not as simple as "anything apart from zero deviation is totally fine"
Well, again, where do you want to draw the line? |
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Post by KenTremendous on Jul 25, 2017 10:14:53 GMT -5
Remember - those charts for Tim are not showing him to be hitting EXACTLY straight, with no deviation, but all those shots will show as a dead straight shot in the game.
Again, stock CANNOT compete with that.
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Post by jarednich on Jul 25, 2017 10:15:22 GMT -5
Because it's clearly far less sensitive than a stock controller and gives the player using it a massive advantage. The deviations on that graph are so tiny they would result in shots that were to all intents and purposes dead straight
This whole discussion isn't about zero deviation - it's about people using easier controllers or fiddling with equipment to give themselves far less deviation than someone using out of the box equipment.
It's not as simple as "anything apart from zero deviation is totally fine"
Well, again, where do you want to draw the line? I don't know where the line is, but I know that the Logitech F310 should be outside of it. |
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Post by xraylucy on Jul 25, 2017 10:16:55 GMT -5
Because it's clearly far less sensitive than a stock controller and gives the player using it a massive advantage. The deviations on that graph are so tiny they would result in shots that were to all intents and purposes dead straight
This whole discussion isn't about zero deviation - it's about people using easier controllers or fiddling with equipment to give themselves far less deviation than someone using out of the box equipment.
It's not as simple as "anything apart from zero deviation is totally fine"
Well, again, where do you want to draw the line? That's the million dollar question. I'm sure the admins will come up with a reasonable number which should remain secret IMO. It sure as hell shouldnt be anything like > 0 is okay. |
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Post by staypuft39 on Jul 25, 2017 10:17:46 GMT -5
So eliminating the guys with all straight shots is a no-brainer. Smurf says numerous - what is numerous? 2? 4? 6? 8? 10? 12 per round? Id say if someone has 3 consecutive dead straight shots you should have a chat privately with them about their device and swing technique. If someone has all there shots straight them absolutely off the bin with them. What do you think? I feel like "consecutive" can't really come into the conversation. Any smart cheater will then do it sparingly, say, once per hole. If you have a straight-shooting script/rubber band/whatever...and you bust it out once per hole, on a drive or a tough approach on a par 5...you have a HUGE advantage, and would not be singled out with your method. Should that be allowed, or is it just a lost cause to police that, in your eyes? EDIT: Doyley said basically same thing. The players who straight shoot once per hole/sparingly are actually way more dangerous than the outright cheaters, as they are trying way harder to subvert the system. |
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Post by Doyley on Jul 25, 2017 10:19:02 GMT -5
No - those zones don't grow or shrink - they are stagnant. The difficulty comes from what lie you are in. The lie is a multiplying factor so the worse your lie the more it takes that swing result and multiplies it. So for putts it's pretty much a 1:1 ratio. From a bunker on a red slope your swing result could be multiplied by 3 or 4 times. 0.005 times 4 = 0.02 0.026 times 4 = 0.104 In TGC2 that is a huge difference for two shots that would land on the fairway from a tee. From a red slope lie - one is in the cone and one is a shank. Is this also affecting uphill/downhill lies? If so, how - uphill comes up shorter and downhill goes a little further? I'm not sure - we don't have access to the exact calculations but know your swing data was affected. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2017 10:19:24 GMT -5
Well, again, where do you want to draw the line? I don't know where the line is, but I know that the Logitech F310 should be outside of it. Now what if I just happened to buy one when I got this game, instead of the XBox 360 used that I got? (didn't know any better) What are you gonna say to me? "Oh, by the way, that $40 you spent in good faith on that controller? You can't use it anymore. Go spend another $40 on another controller." Wanna see people leave? Tell a bunch of basically honest folks that they have to buy new equipment. I sure as hell wouldn't. Money doesn't grow on trees. |
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Post by B.Smooth13 on Jul 25, 2017 10:20:22 GMT -5
That's very limiting. You are underestimating the resolve of the cheater you are trying to catch. You aren't thinking about the guys with scripts to change all shots to something predictably offline (Player C) and not flagged in a straight shot only world. You aren't thinking of the player that only pulls out a 0 axis shot on approach shots only (there by having no consecutive 0-axis shots) - say a user that can turn it on/off at will. You are giving the green light for users to use all 3rd party devices like Burton's F310 that has 0 straight shots. You are giving users the green light to deaden their axis so the worst they can do is hit 0.015 shots similar to Player B. So your answer to police cheating is to only catch the guys that are very bad at cheating. You are then saying that those with an advantage are ok so when Burton fires up his F310 and beats you by 12 strokes you'll congratulate him and say good game. Even though 99% of his shots in-game are straight white lines due to the forgiving nature of his controller. That is a very different tune than what you've been singing the past month or so. Seems to me that you have a fairly strong opinion on this, and I don't think many would disagree with you line of thought. Again, ultimately do what you think is best. TGCT is your (and the other admins) train, we're just along for the ride. So despite the worry that requiring some to purchase a stock controller could be a barrier to participation, it seems to be the only feasible way to mitigate some of the advantages, while not an end-all-be-all, foolproof solution. |
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Post by SweetTeeBag on Jul 25, 2017 10:20:42 GMT -5
Remember - those charts for Tim are not showing him to be hitting EXACTLY straight, with no deviation, but all those shots will show as a dead straight shot in the game. Again, stock CANNOT compete with that. Actually they don't Matt. I can't hit a single drive/iron/pitch/flop/chip dead straight ever with it. No idea why as I can hit 95% of my putts dead straight no deviation. |
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Post by smurfblade88 on Jul 25, 2017 10:22:03 GMT -5
Just to make my stance on where were at clear as iv been told my changing my opinion on this is "Funny" and "Interesting" by a few people including staff members here which I find incredible. My stance for the last few weeks has been that if we changed to stock controllers for all that would help keep the place clean of 3rd party controller and Mice that can have their DPI adjusted to aid hitting straight. My opinion on this changed when admin here revealed that they dont have that kind of information available so my position was rendered redundant as it could not be policed. That must be really difficult to understand for some people. We are now in a position where the API can not differentiate between skill and cheating. Thats a pretty messed up position to be in. So what can we do? earlier I suggested a few guidleines that we could follow that may eek out any cheaters. I suggested: - Anyone who hits all dead straight shots should be DQ'd - Anyone who hits all of their shot near dead straight should be DQ'd (This could leax to people being unfairly treated) - Anyone who hits a zero deviation shot or many in a round could be privately asked to verify their device and swing technique for admin to confirm they play legit. -Anyone who doesnt have a massive difference between their best and worst shot in a round could be also privately contacted and asked to verify their device and swing technique. I dont envy admin having to come up with rules but I think these type of guidelines at least wont alienate the people who have genuinely good swing skills and wont make many fear of hitting the ball straight legitimately as this is ultimately the aim the game. Thats my opinion on it anyways and it appear from the poll most people tend to agree. tgctours.proboards.com/thread/11960/rule-on-straight-shooting-cheating |
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Post by AFCTUJacko on Jul 25, 2017 10:23:43 GMT -5
Use the data - determine how common Red Zones are, determine how common orange zones are.
Set parameters based on those figures plus X% leeway for numbers of shots per round/tournament inside those zones.
Anyone outside of those parameters is contacted and asked to change equipment.
Most of those will be 3rd Party Controllers and Mice that have been fiddled with.
If the odd person just has a stock controller with a huge deadzone and they are required to change it - so be it
The vast majority of players use stock equipment and will very rarely go inside the Red/Orange zones |
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Post by Doyley on Jul 25, 2017 10:27:29 GMT -5
- Anyone who hits a zero deviation shot or many in a round could be privately asked to verify their device and swing technique for admin to confirm they play legit. How is this done? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2017 10:27:48 GMT -5
Use the data - determine how common Red Zones are, determine how common orange zones are.
Set parameters based on those figures plus X% leeway for numbers of shots per round/tournament inside those zones.
Anyone outside of those parameters is contacted and asked to change equipment.
The vast majority of those will be 3rd Party Controllers and Mice that have been fiddled with.
If the odd person just has a stock controller with a huge deadzone and they are required to change it - so be it And what if that person with a dead zone in a stock controller buys another one and that one has a dead zone too? Just how many controllers is this person supposed to buy? This is starting to become total BS. Sorry, but that's the way I see it. |
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dougboz00
Weekend Golfer
Posts: 138 
TGCT Name: Euro
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Post by dougboz00 on Jul 25, 2017 10:27:51 GMT -5
Why cant we just define what a stock controller is? Make a list of APPROVED stock controllers and leave it at that. The VAST majority of players will abide by policy and we go from their!
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Post by smurfblade88 on Jul 25, 2017 10:27:59 GMT -5
Use the data - determine how common Red Zones are, determine how common orange zones are.
Set parameters based on those figures plus X% leeway for numbers of shots per round/tournament inside those zones.
Anyone outside of those parameters is contacted and asked to change equipment.
The vast majority of those will be 3rd Party Controllers and Mice that have been fiddled with.
If the odd person just has a stock controller with a huge deadzone and they are required to change it - so be it What happens if someone tries numerous controllers and can hit perfect shots legitimately occasionally on all? I know u think this is impossible or unlikely but what would you suggest in this case? The person be excluded altogether? |
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International Record: 7-0-0
