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Post by HeMan1202 on Jun 29, 2017 9:40:56 GMT -5
Want to see people leave, tell them they missed the cut and are being demoted from top tours because "pros" are using Players clubs. It can go both ways. Except nothing is stopping them from using Player Clubs. There is a HUGE difference between giving golfers options and FORCING golfers to do something. Besides, as far as I'm concerned, you're not good enough to use Tour Clubs accurately? Too bad. Don't use them. Nobody is forcing you to. But the guys who eventually nail Tour Clubs like they're nothing are going to leave everybody else in the dust PROVIDED they alter the difference in the distances off the tee. Right now, there is ZERO incentive to use a club that only gives you 14 more yards off the tee. In short, you will lose fewer players giving options than you will forcing clubs. If you took a poll, I'd bet every dollar in my bank account on that. There should not have to be incentive. You're looking at it from purely a scoring perspective instead of a true golf SIM experience. IRL golf there are bad shots, mishits, pulls, hooks, slices, flubs. Driving accuracy is not supposed to 90-100%. FIR and GIR is not supposed to be 90-100%. No longer do you have to rely on stupid tricked up courses with concrete greens to keep these stats down, it is now in the swing. Yet people are reverting back to the easier swing because they can score better. This is a step sideways, not forward. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2017 9:41:21 GMT -5
Personally I have no intention of reverting to an easier swing whatever happens
If that means not playing the tours then so be it.
TGC2 was supposed to be a new lease of life for TGCT - if the Players Clubs are allowed on the Top Tours then it will end up being an identical experience to what we've been doing for the last 2 years. And we've all done that already....
Again, you're forgetting that every aspect of this game has been changed. 1) 3 iron loft - GONE. The guys who used this club to go 140 something yards on firm greens are toast. They're gonna have to find some other way to tackle those tucked pins. 2) Chipping 9 iron loft - GONE. The guys taking a 9 iron and moving the loft all the way up to the top to chip a 4 yard shot are toast. They're gonna have to actually LEARN how to chip. 3) Putting - Has a different feel to it. Plus, I've noticed that the grid doesn't give away as much as far as break (the moving lines) as TGC 1 did. So the Boomer method of putting no longer works. So you're gonna have to learn how to putt all over again. 4) Wind or "Oh Crap...What Happened To My Charts?" I am finding that the wind (the more I play) does not affect the ball the same way as it did in TGC 1. So something else that has to be relearned. This isn't TGC 1 even without the different swings. Player Clubs are not a gimme off the tee. The tempo swing will lose you distance if you're too slow with your swing. And that has nothing to do with straightness. Again, I shot 14 under at Little Brook Manor with TGC 1 and shot 7 under on Standard and 6 under on Player with TGC 2. How much harder do you want to make this game? To the point where 90% of the player base quits? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2017 9:44:03 GMT -5
Except nothing is stopping them from using Player Clubs. There is a HUGE difference between giving golfers options and FORCING golfers to do something. Besides, as far as I'm concerned, you're not good enough to use Tour Clubs accurately? Too bad. Don't use them. Nobody is forcing you to. But the guys who eventually nail Tour Clubs like they're nothing are going to leave everybody else in the dust PROVIDED they alter the difference in the distances off the tee. Right now, there is ZERO incentive to use a club that only gives you 14 more yards off the tee. In short, you will lose fewer players giving options than you will forcing clubs. If you took a poll, I'd bet every dollar in my bank account on that. There should not have to be incentive. You're looking at it from purely a scoring perspective instead of a true golf SIM experience. IRL golf there are bad shots, mishits, pulls, hooks, slices, flubs. Driving accuracy is not supposed to 90-100%. FIR and GIR is not supposed to be 90-100%. No longer do you have to rely on stupid tricked up courses with concrete greens to keep these stats down, it is now in the swing. Yet people are reverting back to the easier swing because they can score better. This is a step sideways, not forward. Well, you're ignoring the reality of human nature. Tell John Doe he has to use Tour Clubs after he just wrestled with them for a month and can't break 90 and you're going to have one less member of the tour. That's the reality. He won't stick around. Now, multiply that by everybody who isn't "good" enough to use Tour Clubs and you will turn this place into a ghost town. If that's what you want, great. Let's do it. I'm sure Scott and company will thank you tons. |
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Post by AFCTUJacko on Jun 29, 2017 9:48:53 GMT -5
@wagtunes
The game has been out for 2 days. All of the stuff you mention can be learned (or re-learned) before we start playing competitively again.
Two days ago I could barely keep it in the cone. At lunch today I went -5 for 7 holes and didn't miss a fairway or green
It's a re-adjustment. That shouldn't mean getting out the training wheels for players who are supposed to be the best on the site. If people genuinely cannot cope, they either need to put the work in to improve, or drop down a level or two. That will happen organically - and there might be some pain along the way.
That's life |
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Post by ErixonStone on Jun 29, 2017 9:55:58 GMT -5
The Player Clubs probably need to be made a little bit less accurate than they are now so that with them you sometimes miss the landing area of the green.
The tour club irons probably need to made a little bit more forgiving so that misses aren't so drastically wild.
Slight changes to balance the club options are needed, but I still believe that the players who master the Tour swing will be the best players. We should give this a few weeks to see how many of us can score better with Tour than with Player clubs.
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Post by TheDominator273 on Jun 29, 2017 10:00:49 GMT -5
Anyone ever play in an online Madden league? Forced club choice is no different than your league forcing a difficulty setting on you. I think everyone should be using Tour clubs, but if people are really opposed to them why not separate the two into separate tours?
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Post by HeMan1202 on Jun 29, 2017 10:02:50 GMT -5
The Player Clubs probably need to be made a little bit less accurate than they are now so that with them you sometimes miss the landing area of the green. The tour club irons probably need to made a little bit more forgiving so that misses aren't so drastically wild. Slight changes to balance the club options are needed, but I still believe that the players who master the Tour swing will be the best players. We should give this a few weeks to see how many of us can score better with Tour than with Player clubs. I can agree with your last sentence.
I honestly hope they do not make the Tour swing easier. It think it is a good balance of difficulty from driver down to wedge.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2017 10:04:58 GMT -5
Well, then there is only one option then. And it brings me back to an episode of Law and Order where a baby died because the adoptive parents didn't know the baby had health issues. The parents who put the baby up for adoption knew but withheld that info. But they didn't know at first because the guy from Russia who they originally got the baby from hid the medical issues from them.
In trying to determine who should get a deal and who should pay the max penalty, Adam, Jack and Abbey couldn't agree as to who was most guilty. Finally, Abbey says, "Hell with it! No deals for anybody. Hang 'em all."
It's TGC "TOURS" Not TGC Standard or TGC Players. "TOURS"
So everybody has to use Tour Clubs. From PGA all the way down to CC-Z. That way, for those who want to play on the tour, at least as they go up the ladder, they'll at least be prepared for the PGA. Right now, without forcing Web on down to use Tour clubs, they're not. Not if we move to forced clubs.
So hell with it. Tour Clubs for everybody.
I do hope, however, that we're all prepared to deal with how small this community is going to become if we go down that road.
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Post by beamstas on Jun 29, 2017 10:05:15 GMT -5
Right now for me there is a ~10 stroke difference in my rounds between using PLAYER and TOUR clubs. A slightly off center swing with Player will still be inside the cone. A slightly off center swing with Tour clubs looks like my stick is making a right turn half way up and heading towards the 19th hole.
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Post by ErixonStone on Jun 29, 2017 10:07:24 GMT -5
Anyone ever play in an online Madden league? Forced club choice is no different than your league forcing a difficulty setting on you. I think everyone should be using Tour clubs, but if people are really opposed to them why not separate the two into separate tours? the difference is that the difficulty setting is just that - a difficulty setting. Your QB doesn't throw farther but less accurately on All-Madden. The defense AI is better and reacts faster. Club selection is a risk/reward choice. If it was a difficulty setting then the Standard Clubs would be easiest to score with - same distance and spin but easier to hit. They're not. They ARE easier to hit but you lose a lot of distance and it's hard to stop the ball on approaches. It's actually harder to score on most courses with Standard clubs. |
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Post by Clint Kelso on Jun 29, 2017 10:12:52 GMT -5
Anyone ever play in an online Madden league? Forced club choice is no different than your league forcing a difficulty setting on you. I think everyone should be using Tour clubs, but if people are really opposed to them why not separate the two into separate tours? the difference is that the difficulty setting is just that - a difficulty setting. Your QB doesn't throw farther but less accurately on All-Madden. The defense AI is better and reacts faster. Club selection is a risk/reward choice. If it was a difficulty setting then the Standard Clubs would be easiest to score with - same distance and spin but easier to hit. They're not. They ARE easier to hit but you lose a lot of distance and it's hard to stop the ball on approaches. It's actually harder to score on most courses with Standard clubs. take standard out of the mix and please tell me it's not easier to score with players than tour. Your point is mout outside of standard clubs. Which I don't think anyone would use |
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Post by Clint Kelso on Jun 29, 2017 10:15:57 GMT -5
The ability to shoot better lies in the tour clubs yes but it is easier for the majority of people to shoot better with players
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Post by mde8965 on Jun 29, 2017 10:17:34 GMT -5
Wags from your post above talking about the CC player who knows months before hand that if he ever earns an exemption to PGA/Euro he will have to use Tour clubs.
Well, if I am that guy, as I am getting close to making Web, I start practicing on the side with Tour clubs, still playing my official events with the Player clubs. If I am serious about someday getting to PGA, then I need to put in a lot of work to try and make that happen. It should be very difficult to make PGA/Euro. The problem with TGC1 I think was it was a bit too easy to make the PGA/Euro. And because of that you had a lot of players (like myself) that became disenchanted when they made it, and then week after week could not finish any better than 35th or so.
If it were as hard as it should be to make PGA/Euro, then I think they would not have to do the demotions thing in those tours. That once you earned your card, you were there until the end of current season.
I am in no way saying that I want everyone forced to use Tour Clubs. BUT, unless something is done to make Player Clubs no longer be a clear advantage, then there is no other choice. And if there is no other choice, then you should let the CC-Am's use Standard or Player. Let the CC-Pro's use anything. Let the Webbers use Player or Tour, and make the PGA/Euro use Tour.
Like I said, barring changes to the current club set mechanics or distances, there is no other logical choice. I, however, think the best choice is to make Player Clubs not be automatically the better scoring club. Tweak the two club sets using a sampling of several elite players and middle of the road PGA players until for the most part, they are scoring slightly better with the Tour set. Then open up all the tours from CC-Pro on up to decide if they want to go with Tour clubs or Player. |
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Post by SweetTeeBag on Jun 29, 2017 10:19:01 GMT -5
We will do what the admins say or not play simple as that.
That being said I say leave it up to the player. If people think they can score higher with tour clubs, so be it. If they can score better with player clubs then have at it. When we play the tourneys people are going to pick what makes them score the best.
If we have mile wide fairways without much chance of hazards people will go tour but if we have tight fairways with water all over player clubs may be the way to go.
Time will tell...
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Post by Slymas on Jun 29, 2017 10:22:58 GMT -5
Personally I think Wags last idea is best where tour clubs should just be the mandatory club for all tours, but only if HB add it as an option where you can force clubs in a society or an event. Otherwise it will be a massive strain to police the use of clubs on the admins.
I also think Wags is right that numbers might drop because of this. But the Tour clubs add an element that was missing from TGC1 and that's the recovery shots being a big part of the game and that birdies should be a reward not the norm.
This will also mean the courses that get made won't need to be tricked up and people will have to take into account the hazards around an area a lot more.
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