|
Post by Dave on Apr 10, 2017 12:12:53 GMT -5
Hi All,
Please feel free to try my newly submitted Tor Bridge Golf Club, there are four versions, Thur, Fri, Sat and Sunday, different conditions for each.
Any feedback would be appreciated.
Thanks
Dave
|
|
|
Post by scarpacci on Apr 14, 2017 16:39:11 GMT -5
Terrible course. I was really hoping for a better effort from such an astute course critic such as yourself. Unfortunately it appears your limited skill in the designer doesn't allow you to bring your vast golf course design knowledge to fruition. Thank you for adding so many props to the sky and water areas though. It was a welcomed distraction from the absolute bore-fest of a course.
|
|
|
Post by gregfordyce on Apr 15, 2017 6:50:07 GMT -5
I'm assuming the exchange above is some dispute between you guys, won't touch it! There were like 25 different versions of this course with this name, so I played the plain Tor Bridge Golf Club. Really enjoyed my round, thought you did a nice job. Some very interesting hole routings too. Thank you for creating this for the community!
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Apr 15, 2017 8:04:19 GMT -5
Thanks Greg. The latest ones are Tor Bridge Golf Club (Thur through to Sun)
|
|
|
Post by scarpacci on Apr 15, 2017 11:08:31 GMT -5
Thanks for the constructive feedback, i'll assume this is in response to my comment about the greens at paragon park? Since I've had nothing but good feedback about my course so far, I'll take your post with a pinch of salt and just work on the basis that you're a crybaby that cant take a bit of criticism lol. More in response to your general attitude toward any course you don't score well on. Your post history is full of useless, over the top criticism of other peoples courses so I thought I would be as helpful to you as you are to others. It's so much easier than actually offering up some constructive criticism so I can see why it's so popular around here. I think you'll have better luck if you spend more time in the designer and less time on the forums complaining that other courses are being used on tour instead of yours. Be as "honest" and critical of yourself as you are of others and maybe you can make something worthy of peoples time. Long story short...put up or shut up.
|
|
|
Post by jacobkessler on Apr 15, 2017 16:11:27 GMT -5
More in response to your general attitude toward any course you don't score well on. Your post history is full of useless, over the top criticism of other peoples courses so I thought I would be as helpful to you as you are to others. It's so much easier than actually offering up some constructive criticism so I can see why it's so popular around here. I think you'll have better luck if you spend more time in the designer and less time on the forums complaining that other courses are being used on tour instead of yours. Be as "honest" and critical of yourself as you are of others and maybe you can make something worthy of peoples time. Long story short...put up or shut up. If you don't like criticism, don't make courses. You can't cry and show yourself up to be a massive tool every time someone doesn't like your courses. Well actually, in your case, you can, but it doesn't look very good lol.
I was trying to stay out of this one, but I can't resist anymore. In Scarp's post, he specifically said that it was your general additude, not anything in specific. Antonio is one of the best designers around, and I've also got to say that he's kind of right about your posts... Anyway, carry on.
|
|
|
Post by jacobkessler on Apr 15, 2017 17:16:33 GMT -5
Really? I went back through the last 10 pages of my posts, and yes there are some criticisms, but to say " Your post history is full of useless, over the top criticism of other peoples courses" is a load of bollocks. I apologise for having an opinion and not liking everyones courses, but i'll give credit where it's due, and criticism where it's due. Like I said previously, if people can't take the rough with the smooth, then maybe they shouldn't be designing courses. When did either one of us say we can't take criticism? I don't only take criticism- I embrace it! The issue is your criticism isn't constructive; it's pointless and harsh. Let me take a look at your last 5 pages of posts. Here's the highlights: "another course with stupid greens" "I also wonder whether the designer has a thing for burning the feelers off ants and other small insects using a magnifying glass and the sun, and other types of painful torture" "Horned Viper, that was the one, what a shower of sh%$ that was" Definitely not pointless and over the top. Anyway, I'm done with this thread.
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Apr 15, 2017 17:25:30 GMT -5
Well done, you've managed to find 3 posts out of 50. Definitely "full of useless over the top criticism".
Since you have nothing to do with this thread or argument, I don't see why you think I'm aiming my comments at you either. I don't even know if I've played any of your courses.
However, I take your point regarding some of the wording, I shall strive to be less destructive in future. I have also paid a compliment to Mr Scarpacci's Paragon Park.
But, the fact is, I criticised his course, rightly or wrongly, and could've been more constructive, but he thought the best way to deal with my comments is to leave the above message regarding my own course. So, he's hardly in a position to criticise my attitude lol.
I've said my piece, none of us have come out of this looking very good so I suggest we all put our toys away and learn to play nicely.
|
|
|
Post by karma4u on Apr 15, 2017 19:40:26 GMT -5
So, this course was approved by TGCT on March 25th..Since then, it has been submitted two more times.. There is a sticky in CAPS..regarding this...just sayin'...... People learn a whole lot more by listening/reading...than talking.......yup, that's true Cheers........ Just double checked and although it's marked "approved", there is no official "sig" by the approver.. Regardless, it still stands that a course needs only to be submitted once.........
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Apr 15, 2017 20:27:21 GMT -5
I submitted it once then asked the reviewers to reject it so I could make changes but it was approved twice. So yes, I did read 😉
|
|
|
Post by jacobkessler on Apr 15, 2017 20:37:40 GMT -5
Really make sure you're ready for it to be reviewed whenever you publish and submit a course. Saves them a lot of time.
|
|
|
Post by karma4u on Apr 15, 2017 20:57:38 GMT -5
well, that's cool...if you say so...but, seriously, that's not what i see... My original point still stands........Submit one (1) version of your course... The data base is...just that..a DATABASE... It is meant for final submissions only..So, seriously, take from this what you will.......i have no axe to grind...i've played your course and thought it was fine.... Thanks Jacob, just saw your post....Cheers
|
|
|
Post by scarpacci on Apr 15, 2017 21:23:25 GMT -5
The point of my post was to illustrate how useless non-constructive criticism is. It's just criticizing something for the sake of being hurtful. It's become the culture around here and I really wish it would stop. I'm sorry I chose your course to try and prove this point but you were the latest offender I came across since I took a long break from submitting courses for this very reason.
I don't consider myself a great designer. I think I'm very good at using the course designer software because I've spent thousands of hours using it. I'm very open to constructive feedback because I'm constantly trying to get better at creating fair but challenging courses that you guys can enjoy on tour. Instead, all I read are insults and complaints. I try to avoid them, but my desire to improve inevitably takes over and I read everything I can about my courses. I try to block out the nonconstructive and hurtful comments but lately it seems that's all there is (quite possibly not, but it's all I see).
I'm done submitting courses to this site. There's just nothing in it for me anymore. Unless the culture changes soon you'll keep pushing out talented people that spend countless hours creating content that keeps this game fresh because you all think it's "funny" or "within your rights" to be a jerk. Gordon Ramsey can get away with being a complete ass because he can cook circles around everybody he critiques. If he says it's sh%$, then it's sh%$. If he couldn't cook, he'd just be ass and nobody would like him. I often look at the courses of the harshest critics on here to see how they do it. Some can't even be bothered to attempt creating a course (I assume because it's hard and they prefer things to be easy or done for them), the rest create mediocre courses full of the same flaws they complain about. Like I said earlier...put up or shut up.
Again, sorry I chose you and your course to vent my frustrations with the culture of the community. I should have just stayed away from the forum. I just wish people would realize that designers are trying their best to create great courses for these tours. It's really hard. Really, really hard and time consuming. The reward of having the top players compete on something you created used to be enough, but not anymore (to me at least). I don't even feel like people enjoy playing anymore. Just going through the motions.
I agree with your last point Dave, so that's all from me. Just wanted to explain where I was coming from.
|
|
|
Post by jacobkessler on Apr 15, 2017 21:33:54 GMT -5
Great job guys. We drove away one of our best designers. And honestly, I don't blame him.
Us designers work so hard to put out good courses just to hear people say everything wrong with them. That's not how it used to be. It used to be that people stated everything they liked about a course and added in just a pinch of criticism. But now people have gotten so fixed on being good at this game that if you don't make it to where people shoot -18 every time they play, then you're in for people hating on your course. It really makes you think, what's the point? Why should I put in a hundred+ hours to get people to say how bad it is?
I've been a lucky one. There was really only one time where someone went over the top on one of my courses. However, there's people like Scarpacci, Canuck, Arctic Fury, Scampi, Griff, Sam, Taste, etc. etc. etc. that make one tiny mistake and get busted for it. Kind of ridiculous that they're held to a higher standard just because they're better. But whatever.
Really hope you change your mind Antonio, but I really can't blame you for leaving.
|
|
|
Post by Dave on Apr 15, 2017 21:43:03 GMT -5
Ill post tomorrow when I'm able to type on laptop and it's not 3am and I'm not a complete zombie.
But I accept your apology, I also apologise and also offer a hand of truce.
|
|