Group E Judging Results & Scoreboard

[Deleted]

Designer                                                                                           Points

Adam Hill                                                                                          5

MoeSlorkman                                                                                   3

misternic                                                                                          4

bradleystuart                                                                                   4


Adam Hill advances as winner of group E. misternic advances as second place finisher after tiebreaker (head-to-head) against bradleystuart. Good luck in the knockout rounds, guys. 

ps. this was a tight group in regards to scoring in the judging. All 4 are quality courses, all 4 should be pinned. Well done, guys.

[Deleted]

Braes of Sutherland vs Cnoic Lionn Dubh

Judge 1:

Braes of Sutherland vs Cnoic Lionn Dubh

Braes of Sutherland  Really liked this course, everything seemed about right to me . Good frame rates, good planting, good bunkering, greens were very playable and some excellent terrain work. My only criticism would be the lack of access from green to next tee, examples would be 2nd green to 3rd tee and 7th green i spent ages looking for the 8th tee and never found it apart from that a beautiful course

Score 8.5

Cnoic Lionn Dubh  Not a fan of this course at all.....Routing seemed to be all over the place with far too many blind tee shots, Hole 4 a dog leg par 5 i hit 270 from the tee to fairway i then did not have a 2nd shot unless i used a PW. It was a real struggle to work out where i was supposed to be going off the tee on most holes. Framerates were pretty awful i suppose mainly down to the excessive planting of trees. The greens whilst rewarding almost perfect shots had way too many red slopes on them that would ruin a score for a lot of players.

Score 5.0

Winner Braes of Sutherland

Judge 2:
Bras of Sutherland

Only complaint is a found it a tad dark in spots.
Course had a good flow.
Enjoyed it

Cnoic

Lag Stutterfest
Too dark, one or two hole couldn't even see the fairway with scout cam, pitch black
8'th wtf
This course was not for me. 

Winner

Sutherland

[Deleted]

Carl's Bait Shop vs Hill Valley Country Club

Judge 1:
Carl's Bait Shop vs Hill Valley CC

Carl's Bait Shop- The course starts off with a nice looking first hole. In fact most of the holes look nice. There are some really nice hole designs here. Hole 4 is one of the best looking holes for me, with the lighting and natural planting, and a really nice looking tee shot. The greens are done well and fit the course and conditions very well. As I played through the holes and made notes, I began to notice it was very repetitive on two things. There were rakes in the middle of almost every single bunker. This is a no-no because you can't move the ball or the rake if the ball rests up against it and the player will be punished. I also noticed there are generated rocks littered throughout the course. This does not hurt the game play, but aesthetically it doesn't look great...at least to me. This being a competition, it's points off for me. Most of the hole designs were really good here, the exception being hole 17 where there is a fairway off to the right. I looked at it several times and couldn't figure out why you would hit it to the right. There is no benefit and just didn't make sense to me. Sculpting was done pretty good here as well. Hole 12, which is an elevated par 3, could have been AWESOME if you could have seen the green below you. Instead, you get to see just the edge of the tee box and there is a view, but not of your hole. I like the eye candy in the courses, but couldn't figure out the placement of the gazebo on 11. I also think the course name should resemble the course or vice versa...where is the bait shop? There is barely a clubhouse. There things don't hurt game play in any way, but are things I'm looking at in a competition. I do like the fact there are some par 5's that are eagle chances and even a reachable par 4 depending on wind conditions. The challenge here is minimal. I played in 18 mph winds and had a couple mistakes and managed a -14. Some challenge would be nice, but this seems like a great course for the lower CC guys and gals.
All in a nice course, with some flaws.

Hill Valley CC- The first hole here is very nice, clean and simple. I felt like this was a real course. Hole 2 has a nice rock wall behind the green, but I noticed a couple generated rocks Move on to hole 3 and we have a nice tee shot with options off the tee...love that, but the bunker near the green is in two cuts of rough. Hole 4 and we have a straight forward 3 shot par 5 and more generated rocks. It starts to get repetitive from there. What the designer has done here has taken a minimal approach and created a nice course. You're not going to get a whole lot of eye candy here, but you will get some nice golf. I can see some may think this is plain, and may not care for that look. I like it, and it makes me feel like I'm playing on a real course. This course does suffer from the same thing as his competition...generated rocks. You start a hole, looking good and then there are rocks next to a bunker or next to a green...that kind of makes no sense to have rocks just littered here and there. Personal pet peeve. Most of the sculpting here is pretty good. But on 16, the steep drop to the waters edge seems unrealistic and too exaggerated. A smoother more gradual look would have been better for me. Hole 17 has only two ways to get across to the green...swim or walk on the fairway of the previous hole...not very realistic, but it also doesn't hurt the game play aspect at all, just an observation. The designer did no really nice work in regards to the clubhouse area. Really nice job there. Ending my round, I always look forward to the finishing hole! What will I remember, what's going to bring me back? I get on 18, looks pretty nice, get ready to hit my tee shot and oh no.....A VERY OBVIOUS SLANTED TEE BOX This doesn't ruin the hole or my round here, but makes me a little sad the designer did not double check the tee boxes.

This is a nice course. I love the look and feel. The designer did some nice things here, but also made some silly errors. This was a very close call for me.  A nail biter...

Hill Valley CC- 7.3

Carl's Bait Shop- 7.1

Judge 2:

Carl's Bait Shop thoughts...

Pros:

I love the quirky name. 

Great look off the first tee. That to me sets the tone for a course, and this is a solid opening look.

Subtle break on 2nd green that makes a simple looking putt go wide...I like that.

On 4: I like the tee shot...I like the sculpting around the water...

I like the dangling green shadow on 8. Gives that "early AM" feel a warmth. And the gazebo is at least in a logical place.

I love the sky-high tee on hole 12. Makes the wind come into play more than on most holes and that increases difficulty without tricking up the course.

Love almost all of 13...if it didn't have fairway around the green I'd really love it. The design is the most unique looking of the last 9 holes.

Like the layout of 14. Nice use of the par 5 to give risk/reward.

15...the step hills work on the layout for the tee box.

18....the lone tree on the drive a plus. Green the most creative on the course.

Cons:

OK, it's well known that I'm not a fan of the things that aren't impacting game play, but the gazebo on 3 irritates me. First, it's unnecessary, but it's in an illogical place. It's not on the highest hill to give the best view? It's across the 3rd green from the water? At the very least it should be on the water side so people could watch the ducks or the green.

...I don't like the fairway around the green on 4. It just doesn't look right to me.

Two sets of "step hills" in the first 5 holes? Seems repetitive too early. Tee box on 5 feels claustrophobic with the tree there.

Another green in front of a squarish hill on 7. I REALLY dislike the obvious repetitiveness of a non-natural looking feature.

ANOTHER green cut into a hill on 8.

Hole 10 is sculpted a little more than the other hill cut greens but it seems that way.

Red on the green on 11 seems really out of place compared to other greens.




Hill Valley Country Club:

Pros:

Love the lighting.

Love the opening shot on 1...big and inviting. The lighting REALLY enhances the look.

*** RARE "non-playing" compliment here: I like the fact you can see the parking lot behind the golfer on the opening tee shot when you see the shot in reverse view. Mentally, it reminds me of many small local courses I've played.

LOVE the rock work and planting on 2. That's a darn near perfect par 3. Subtle breaks on the green.

Perfect bunker placement for the drive on 3.

I like the look of the hill surrounding the green on 3. Nice planting of trees.

Great look off tee at 5.

The pin placement on the Africa shaped green on 6 is fantastic. Real challenge for the approach shot.

A very subtle but nice risk/reward on 8's second shot.

WOW...seriously deceptive green on 11. That will give guys fits.

I like 14's green up against a fence and roadway. I've seen that quite a bit on real life courses and it always resonated with me.

Great planting on 15.

Great use of water on 16 and 17.

Cons:

Many other courses with the same name. Hard to find in the list.

Hole 1...there's that fairway around the green. I just personally don't like that.

Landing area for drive on 3 a little narrow for my liking when a bunker's involved.

I don't like 10. I can't explain it...it's well designed...but it feels kind of out of place compared to what was before it. Like a whole new course at the turn...makes you wonder if it's two 9 hole courses someone stuck together as 18.




OK, in matchup one for us IMO, Hill Valley wins.

[Deleted]

Braes of Sutherland vs Carl's Bait Shop

Judge 1:
Braes of Sutherland
-Very traditional links "feel" and look
-Beautiful lighting
-Excellent textures and sculpting from tee to pin
-Bunkers - well-placed, excellently sculpted, pot bunkers not overly done as seen on a lot of links courses
-Routings fairly unique, and enjoyable to play
-Minimalist planting, which works excellently with this links course and the highland theme
-Overall playability is fun and accessible to just about everyone of all abilities, although catering primarily to the novice player

The greens used stock shapes for the most part, which is not necessarily a negative in my view, but does leave a feeling of "been there, done that" in the mouth after a few holes. The green complexes were probably the weak point to me - this course was very "linksy" in most attributes, except for them. Instead of the traditional links greens - large, lots of movement, firm and fast - these were small with very little break, and soft and somewhat slow. In my view, if you are going to make a links course, then it needs to be a links course in every aspect, not just the fairways and bunkers. So the ground game - which is an integral part of links golf - does not really come into play at all due to the greens, as approaches can be made as on typical non-links parkland golf. A good links course means approach shots need to be played to the terrain of the green, using the running game to roll to the hole as needed. Perhaps I'm being too much of a purist though.

By itself, this is a very well-done course that is fun to play and looks beautiful, and will appeal to more novice players looking for an easier, more forgiving course.

Carl's Bait Shop
-Absolutely gorgeous environment
-Bunkering is extremely well done - placement, sculpting, shapes
-Some very memorable hole routings. Stand-outs were 2, 9, 14, 16
-Some spectacular views off of the tee on most holes. 16 Has to be my favorite.
-Minimalist approach to planting, which really worked well on this course, giving it a really organic and natural "feel"
-Greens were very well-done, rewarding good approaches and punishing poor ones in most cases. 2- and 3-tiered greens (11 being a good example) are scattered throughout as examples. Although mostly stock shapes are used, this is not a negative in my view, and the very large fringes mask it in any case.
-Really liked the use of wooden fences throughout the course, marking walking areas for the golfer as opposed to paths or mulch. Almost a trademark or signature of this course and well-done.

The negatives: this is a very minor point, and there may not be an official rule about it in golf, but generally it is considered proper to leave rakes outside of sand traps, not inside, and certainly not thrown into the center of the trap. Again, not a biggie, and just an aesthetic point. Second (and again this is just an aesthetic pet peeve of mine), putting red stakes around bodies of water is redundant. Obviously, if a ball lands in water, it is going to cost you a stroke.

Aside from those two very minor and debatable points, this was overall a fantastic golf course and a real pleasure to play and look at, with a universal appeal that makes it really stand out. I can easily see this one on a tournament.

Winner in my view: Carl's Bait Shop


Judge 2:

Computer glitch anyhow to get back to what I was going to say is that I feel no need to add to my pard's assessment of both courses, they are both worthy in my mind. All points valid so it basically came down to which one I enjoyed playing the most and at first glance it was Braes of Sutherland. I loved everything about this course. So with that being said I give that course a 9 of 10 and Carl's Bait I give a 8.9. No reason other than I preferred Braes over Carl. Both superb courses.

[Deleted]

Cnoic Lionn Dubh vs Hill Valley Country Club

Judge 1:
Cnoic Links Dubh......................................................................vs.................................................................... Hill Valley CC

Pros...                                                                                                                                                                Pros...
                                                                                                                                                                          Overall look is very good
Overall look was excellent, has the looks of a RC.                                                                                            Layout is superb                                                                                                                                      
Layout was superb                                                                                                                                            Good playability
Sculpting was good.                                                                                                                                          Good sculpting                                                                                        
Playability  was fine.
Good looking course, fun round..                                                                                                                      Cons...
                                                                                                                                                                          To me, there were no problems with this course, other than i felt
                                                                                                                                                                          it just lacked that little extra that makes it a contest winner..
                                                                                                                                  

Cons...                                                                                                                                                               Comments..
I wasn't crazy about f/w's 5 & 8..hey, that's just me..                                                                                          I absolutely loved the double driveway, it really added to 10, 15, 18.
I thought a chainsaw to a couple of trees and also                                                                                            Really did look great...This is most definitely a tour worthy course''
some tree topping would have been nice..but..no biggie.

Comments...

I fly all the courses in cam mode to get an idea of how 
the hole to next tee box is laid out..There has been a ton
of work put into this here..Great paths and fencing.....
just seriously nice work......

                                                                                          WINNER: CNOIC LIONN DUBH

Judge 2:
Hill valley country club

8-10 mph
-15
nice layout, playabilty was fine just felt it was just abit to simple didn't really have to think much on approach shots or drives not a bad course by any means but just didnt have anything special about it

Rating, 6

Cnoic lionn dubh

3-6 mph
-17
Really enjoyed the layout and the way it made you think over quite a few tee shots and second shots also having slopes that you can use to get closer is always a bonus only negative was on 13 didnt really have
A tee shot either hit in to the trees or lay up behind the trees.

Rating 7.5

Winner, cnoic lionn dubh
 

[Deleted]

Braes of Sutherland vs Hill Valley Country Club

Judges 1 & 2:
Myself and *********** have had our own thread going in an attempt to reach a decision and make your life a bit easier, but I'm afraid despite that we have ended up with a tie, sorry Griff!  Basically we both had it extremely close with both of us slightly favouring one course over the other, unfortunately not the same one.  I will at least copy and paste all our comments on to this one message so it's all in one place.

Match Up: Braes of Sutherland vs. Hill Valley CC

Result:  A tie

Braes of Sutherland

"Pros:
Really nice natural look, I totally bought in to the rugged island and liked the way it played around the coast with a couple of little trips inland, especially going over the mountain on 14,15,16. Made for some good elevation changes and some interesting holes. The course scored well for presentation throughout, the minimal planting looked exactly right. I also thought the bunkering was very good, and 18 was one of the best holes on the course (as it should be).

Cons:
The greens are very slopey but played fair because they were so receptive and slow, but unfortunately this also meant that the well placed run-off areas on almost every green were largely redundant. If you sped the greens up to bring them in to play the greens would probably be borderline unfair so I'm not really sure there's much scope for toughening it up, not helped by the fact a lot of the greens are quite small. I've got no problem with a short course but this one is SHORT! 7 of the 9 par 4's are under 400 yards, all the par 5's are reachable (albeit 3 wind dependent) and there's only one par 3 where you need more than a 7 iron. All these short par 4's aren't bad holes but it does make the round a bit repetitive. There's also 5 or 6 blind tee shots which doesn't really bother me but the TST lot wouldn't be happy!

Overall:
It's a good course, really nice look and feel to it but falls down through a lack of variety in gameplay. I scored it 7.8"

"Braes is a unique course that was very fun to play. The greens were very well done and the par 5's stood out to me as being very well designed. A few minor waypoint issues here and there and I wasn't a big fan of the 8th hole. There were also more than a few avoidable sightline issues from the tee box. Given the length of this course and the wonderful undulations of the fairways and greens this course is begging to be set up with firm conditions. However, the designer chose soft and slow and this made for a very easy round of golf. I really can't see this course offering any sort of challenge on any level of TGCTours."

Hill Valley CC

"Pros:
Great authentic Country Club feel, I particularly liked the use of the entrance road alongside some of the holes on the back 9. Great variety of holes on this one, it's fairly long on the whole but there are enough shorter holes to test all the clubs in your bag. The two potentially drivable par 4's (9 and 16) are excellent risk/reward holes, and I also thought the 10th (tree-lined dogleg right with the road up the left) and the par 5 11th really stood out - that's a really good par 5, reminds me a bit of 18 at Pebble. I liked the greens, thought they were a decent but fair test and the run off areas were well done.

Cons:
The driving areas are well bunkered but there is very little in-play green side bunkering throughout, couldn't really understand that. I know it's a park course but a little more elevation could have been added, the course is very flat. And definitely a few points lost for the walk to the 17th green! It's a shame because I thought the routing was very good up to that point and it doesn't affect the gameplay (that's actually a really good long par 3!) but if we're going for authenticity we don't want to be walking up the 16th or 18th fairways.

Overall:
Another good course, I really enjoyed the Country Club vibe and my round. I scored it 7.9"

"There isn't much technically wrong with this course. The sculpting could have been better but wasn't terrible by any stretch of the imagination. The fairways could have been cleaned up a little but nothing major there either. All the hazards were in the right places. If anything stood out it would be the greens, which I thought were well done. Overall, the course just felt a bit generic and lacked any sort of character. Sure, the roads and clubhouse were nicely done, but I'm here to play golf and feel a little more effort could have gone into making the course more interesting."

Verdicts:

"I scored it so closely, 7.9 to 7.8 in favour of Hill Valley.  They are both good courses with a few flaws, but in the end I've gone for substance over style."

"In the end both courses basically scored even for me, but they got there in different ways. Hill Valley CC would offer a better challenge on tour but Braes was more fun and interesting to play. It came down to this for me: If I could only choose one of these course to play again which would it be? The answer is Braes of Sutherland and it's for that reason I am choosing it the winner of this match."

[Deleted]

Cnoic Lionn Dubh vs Carl's Bait Shop

Judge 1:
Carl's Bait Shop

Great looking course - sculpting and planting are minimal for the most part, but pleasing to the eye.
Loved some of the holes, views off the tees are great.. it's not everyday you stand on the tee for a minute and admire the view.

Greens are a mix of flat, with some tiers mixed in. same with the bunkers.. some had a lot, others had few.

Wasn't a fan of the 12th not being able to see the green, but that's only a problem in TST really, and didn't quite understand 17. I think this course has potential for a retee and a repin, and think it would be a great fit for somebody learning tst or the cc am guys.


Cnoic Lionn Dubh

Moe's look is becoming signature.. I could tell it was a Moe course after about 3 holes.

as I've said in the past, I absolutely hate this lighting. Felt like I was hitting through a chute sometimes, but Moe has a great imagination for his hole layouts. I can tell a lot of work has gone in here by zooming around, but it's lost on somebody like me who doesn't design.

For me it comes down to what I want to play more...

So winner for me is Carl's Bait Shop.. I could see some interesting tee and pin options

Judge 2:
Carls bait shop

Nice fence on #1
Like risk reward on 2. Clean bridges etc
Greens mild but well presented and sculpted
#4 a beaut. Great natural look, tee shot a good challenge
Tee shot another good one on 5.
Cliffside behind 5 are very non-descript from afar and close. Planting is so good everywhere else, if they were planted/textured I think it would have looked dynamite, but oh well.
Continually demanding off the tee if you want to maximize distance, which I like.
Great sculpting and waste bunker on 7. Beauty hole.
I wish I was the guy who sold fences to this course
Like 10 and 11
12 has no real risk associated with going for it. Otherwise a decent look for a driveable par 4
Greens are subtly tricky, but pros would feast
Really like 15. Nice hole framing.
Great looking finisher
Risk reward drives seemed fewer on the back.

General

Nice look, some autogen plants/rocks that are less pretty, but planting is good. Some great looking natural areas.
Great sculpting of bunkers
Nice hole routing, round is exciting.
Not especially hard but still a good site for match play.

Cnoic
Like the misty ambience off tee 1
Do not like the miniscule area with a clear shot/view of green on shot 2. Would be nice if that was larger.
Love 2, great framing, awesome tee box...No real way for golfer to get to green without walking across right in front of #1 green, as far as I can see...Only knock on realism.
Really nice look again on 3. Sculpting has been good, course clean so far.
One tree on 3, on left on approach, hanging over a good 5ft of fairway. Looks a bit awkward. Otherwise a good hole.
Don't mind 4 but obviously a really hard par 5 into the wind. 2nd shot right over elbow.
Runoff on 5 just on the edge of wild but passes for me.
Really like planting so far. Subtle...Trees are adding to experience thus far.
#7 a great hole. Risk reward done perfectly
#8….not a good par 4. Really have to hit 4 iron to be safe and not tangle with trees or rough. Left me with 283 in!!!
#9 a fun little adventure to play no matter which way you go.
Love 10. Nice wide fairway, present green nicely, make 2 smart shots to be close.
Waste bunker on 12 lacks any detail. Would have liked to see it “wastier” and not so clean cut.
Tree hanging over right side of fairway just looks sloppy.
No Safe drive on 13, either playing in between 2 bunches of trees or you’re blocked. Safe iron off tee basically screwed.
Like 14, but again maybe too tough of a tee shot. Hit perfect drive with helping wind, still had 188 and a tree almost in my way.
Quite like 15. Very nice par 3.
Lay up short of road on 16 and it’s certain death. 230+ in. Starting to feel like only pros would be able to go 4 rounds here.
Like #17. A well thought out penultimate hole.
Also like 18. Very deceptively tricky finisher.
Nice clubhouse, overall look was solid.

These courses were both very well executed. Not much to choose in planting or the experience of the round. Cnoic might even be more exciting, however, there were a couple holes I felt were just unfair should you play it safe off the tee. Golf course design-wise, Carl's was hard to find fault with, and I feel CARL'S BAIT SHOP should be the winner here.
Honestly both belong on a tour, I think. Cnoic would have to be a pro tour though.

[Moe Slorkman]

Cracker of a group seems like my faith lies on which judge I get

[bradleystuart]

Since it seems that I am going to get tossed from this contest early because I put rakes in my bunkers, I would like to leave you all with this...

Rakes in the bunker are NOT a hazard, not in real golf or in this game!  Rule 24-1 clearly states that you can move a rake that is inside of a bunker should your ball come up to rest against it.  And they pose no hazard in this game as they have no collision properties.  In other words they do not interfere with the path of the ball or your club in this game, they are visual only...like holograms.

I created a one hole course with rakes littered everywhere to test this out.  It's called 'Rake Me Up Before You Go Go'.  Try it.



As for whether they should be placed inside of the bunker or out is purely a matter of preference.  It's a question as old as golf itself and is usually dictated by the course you are playing.  Both the USGA or R&A refuse to make a ruling one way or another on the topic.

 I would like to add that the course I learned this game on asked specifically for the rakes to be placed inside of the bunkers when done and most other courses in that area had similar rules.

[Moe Slorkman]

Jan 8, 2017 15:16:35 GMT -5 bradleystuart said:

Since it seems that I am going to get tossed from this contest early because I put rakes in my bunkers, I would like to leave you all with this...

Rakes in the bunker are NOT a hazard, not in real golf or in this game!  Rule 24-1 clearly states that you can move a rake that is inside of a bunker should your ball come up to rest against it.  And they pose no hazard in this game as they have no collision properties.  In other words they do not interfere with the path of the ball or your club in this game, they are visual only...like holograms.

I created a one hole course with rakes littered everywhere to test this out.  It's called 'Rake Me Up Before You Go Go'.  Try it.



As for whether they should be placed inside of the bunker or out is purely a matter of preference.  It's a question as old as golf itself and is usually dictated by the course you are playing.  Both the USGA or R&A refuse to make a ruling one way or another on the topic.

 I would like to add that the course I learned this game on asked specifically for the rakes to be placed inside of the bunkers when done and most other courses in that area had similar rules.

Haha Thrown out over rakes 😂.

Personally I love seen rakes on a course I also love the tee box furniture that seems to piss everyone off . Don't give up yet mate 😘 .

And if you do go eliminated due to rake usuage should be your signature 😂

[Moe Slorkman]

Dear Judge 2 of my match v adamhill413 take your sunglasses off both courses had perfect visabily 😎.

@griff this doesn't count as slagging the judges does it? If so I will gladly delete my comment 😘

[bradleystuart]

Jan 8, 2017 15:26:47 GMT -5 Moe Slorkman said:

Haha Thrown out over rakes 😂.

Yeah, I know.

I think I read in there that you had some blind tee shots, Moe?  I don't remember seeing them.  Claustrophobic?...maybe, but not blind.  You can see through trees (somewhat) but you can't see through a mound of earth between you and the fairway.

There was another course in our group that had a hole on the front nine where you couldn't see anything at all.  Not the fairway or a single bunker...I didn't know what to do.  Yet I see no mention of blind shots by the same judge who pointed them out on Moe's course.  I'm going to have to give the Lionn another go this evening to double check though.

[Moe Slorkman]

Jan 8, 2017 18:59:02 GMT -5 bradleystuart said:

Jan 8, 2017 15:26:47 GMT -5 Moe Slorkman said:

Haha Thrown out over rakes 😂.

Yeah, I know.

I think I read in there that you had some blind tee shots, Moe?  I don't remember seeing them.  Claustrophobic?...maybe, but not blind.  You can see through trees (somewhat) but you can't see through a mound of earth between you and the fairway.

There was another course in our group that had a hole on the front nine where you couldn't see anything at all.  Not the fairway or a single bunker...I didn't know what to do.  Yet I see no mention of blind shots by the same judge who pointed them out on Moe's course.  I'm going to have to give the Lionn another go this evening to double check though.

I had a few blind second shots to be fair but these where deliberate as the slopes generated added the fairways to play fair for shots over the trees cutting corners . I had a good laugh at some other points but hey been a judge is an opinion some I agree with some I don't . I'll take the points I agree with and use them and laugh at the others.

No point complaining I done a course I love and in my style and once it gets some plays I'm happy 😊

[bradleystuart]

[reebdoog]

maybe I should keep my mouth shut but the reviews I read talked about more than rakes. They were just a part of the whole. *shrug*