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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2016 12:43:55 GMT -5
Hated it during my practice rounds, now enjoying it. Only hole I didn't care for was the last par 3 in R1 that has the steep down slope after the pin? Figured if it was down wind I'd just play to miss the green and get up and down for par but as it was into the wind I figured it would hold. Barely made it on the green and it still rolled all the way to the back for a 75 foot putt. Iwas in the same spot in my practice round but this time the ball cme back to my feet and I 4 putted. No idea if a lofted 3 iron keeps it on the front part of the green or not? I thought the softness of the R2 version of this hole was spot on.
Other than that 1 minor gripe I'd say good job as usual Antonio.
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Post by t2theb2 on Feb 21, 2016 13:25:07 GMT -5
Just played round 4. You able to score on it, but again much luck needed. Round 1 and 2 are fine. Round 3 and 4 are a joke to have those slopes with that firmness. It is such a shame because the slopes and greens on those days look like they would be brilliant if the firmness was toned down a little.
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Post by scarpacci on Feb 21, 2016 14:32:09 GMT -5
"joke" might be a little harsh. There are a few holes the wind doesn't allow an approach anywhere near the pin. I can't control that.
16, the long par 3 in the back may be impossible to hold on Sunday. That hole plays a lot better with the slower greens in the original. I was asked to bump up the green speeds for the tour set-up and added a bit of a backstop to compensate, but with the double digit tailwind even that wont help. I was able to get close in rd 1 so I know it is possible, but not easy for sure.
Thanks for the comments guys.
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Post by t2theb2 on Feb 21, 2016 14:39:11 GMT -5
Yea to be fair probably was a bit harsh. Should not of wrote that straight after playing. Round 4 was not so bad just the odd hole that did not go with the firmness. But saturday was full of them. The course in a way was fine, just the conditions on saturday were not. If it had of being softened it would of played brilliant with those slopes.
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Post by Andrea on Feb 21, 2016 14:51:12 GMT -5
Firstly let me start off by saying I generally like your courses dude.. I've told u as much! Not every course will b to everyone's liking and the course just didn't suit me.. I didn't play well enough,simple.... but I'd b a liar if I said I remotely enjoyed this type of challenge where I felt the green layout especially was a little OTT in a number of places.. I still appreciate the hours u put into the making of the course.. As I do all designers that take time and effort to do so.. I'd like to conclude by saying I've seen some criticism on these forums of other courses in the past (some from the elite on the game) that was very harsh in terms of the disrespect showin to the designer imo..As I've stated before it's impossible to please everyone on tgct. Hi Tony, I have no problem with the way you have communicated your thoughts on the course. In fact, it's exactly what I'm asking for and I agree with you for the most part. It's the little pot shots that get me. I'm not all up in arms about it or anything. Its seems like HB is serious about giving us difficulty options and I hope TGCTours adopts whatever changes they make for the PGA/Euro so realistic courses can yield more realistic scores. However, I do wonder if the same people who can't handle scoring realistic scores on this course will feel any better about themselves. What is the difference? If the difficulty goes up and -18 wins the Masters, are people then going to start complaining that the slopes are too harsh a Magnolia? -3 won the 2013 Open Championship at Muirfield. The 2013 setup was just used on tour and -50 was the winning score. That's a birdie on 2 out of every 3 holes. Is that realistic? Isn't that a bit over the top? I also think it's easier to pick on fictional courses. The 4th hole at Muirfield was over the top on Saturday but I didn't hear anybody complain about that. I think the real issue with difficulty its keeping the balance. Right now, at least IMHO, the balance is pretty good - basically anyone (or almost) as a chance to score low in almost any setup and the very best of us can be kept at, let's say, a 10-15 stroke distance at worst. This makes the game enjoyable without punishing anyone too much. If HB decide to tamper with the difficulty I fear that it will afflict this balance (in a bad way) and made the game borderline unenjoyable for a lot of players. Because no matter what you do you won't be able to keep scores "realistic" and balanced at the same time. Not in a videogame. There will always be that group of players which are more talented / have more time to practice / whatever, that will best all the others. The key of a well rounded videogame, at least to me, is keep the margin between them and the normal ones in a safe and still enjoyable area. Look at TST. They begun with more than 120 players in the filed and now there's less than 80.. And that's because turning all aids off, as TGC is clearly not programmed to be a full simulation, literally destroys that delicate balance between top notch players and average players. Could be "realistic" or "ok" IRL but in a videogame environment is not fun. But that's just my opinion on the matter
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2016 15:07:49 GMT -5
Shot -8 first round in firm conditions. Then +2 in soft conditions in round 2. Played quite well but then capitulated back 9 of round 2 when I knew I was missing yet another cut, great course though.
Regarding the above poster, I disagree. All the score variations come from whether you miss putts or make them. No variation in tee to green. Plus, with realistic driving we could have easier, realistic courses instead of tricked up unrealistic courses
But yes, fine course, enjoyed it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2016 17:37:59 GMT -5
I am here on an exemption this week, and 2 months ago was in CC-D so was kind of apprehensive anyway! I can safely say your course ripped me a new one for the majority of the time....and yet i loved it! For me anyway, it was a real battle on every hole. Having played most of my golf on CC i am not used to the courses as much, but the only way to improve as a player is to play on tough courses and try to figure them out. I managed to score under par on every round, which i was delighted with, and even got an ace in my final round, although it wont count sadly...but i dont care...great course and great challenge, so thank you. Chris thats highly impressive If you dont make it this week I'm sure you'll be here again soon when I started my season 4 months ago In CC-C I saw you on top of the steam leaderboard and thought these CC-A guys are real good catched your ace 2 real nice shot
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Post by edi_vedder on Feb 21, 2016 21:00:30 GMT -5
Hey Antonio, never say die just because of all the moaning about Spectacle Island. You've published a couple of great courses over the last few month, but this one simply doesn't please anyone. No course ever will... that's life... and TGCTours. Period. I've crossed-over this week to the PGA-Tour as Tye Dunes is one of my favourite courses in this game, and I personally wasn't really a fan of Spectacle Island after a few practice holes. That's no criticism, just my humble opinion. As said before, you will never please all players. Don't take it all too personal... it's just a video game!
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Post by Leesome191 on Feb 21, 2016 21:28:35 GMT -5
If it helps...I love ya courses.Never ever do well on em in tourneys, but thay seem fair and make me think before I strike.
If you get 5-10 bad comments out of all the plays your courses get.I would be happy.Can never please everyone ofc,but also maybe ya courses dont suit certain styles.
Anyhoo I like em and keep on designing please.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2016 1:06:58 GMT -5
"joke" might be a little harsh. There are a few holes the wind doesn't allow an approach anywhere near the pin. I can't control that. 16, the long par 3 in the back may be impossible to hold on Sunday. That hole plays a lot better with the slower greens in the original. I was asked to bump up the green speeds for the tour set-up and added a bit of a backstop to compensate, but with the double digit tailwind even that wont help. I was able to get close in rd 1 so I know it is possible, but not easy for sure. Thanks for the comments guys. "I was asked to bump up the green speeds for the tour set up". Just my opinion but if a designer has spent 50+ hours designing and hitting hundreds or thousands of test practice shots into greens that work great at the original design then should they really have to alter the course just to "Sweeney Proof" it and in the process piss off 50% of the field? Not trying to bash anyone, but after 2 or 3 weeks of firm/fast did this course even need modifying with how some players have struggled on the slightly softer R2 version? Maybe the easiest solution is to just create courses that have maxed out green speeds and if they work perfectly fine then other pin location versions with slower speeds would work without having to worry about it? Much easier to turn the dial down then turning it up and getting unwanted red or yellow slopes appearing.
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Post by yeltzman on Feb 22, 2016 3:56:29 GMT -5
Doing a bit of research The 4th at muirfield on the saturday played at a average of 3.64 during the day of the 3rd round only placed the pin where it was placed to the pin sheet,only thing i did miss only played 198 yards that day,even the great peter alliss said a bit tough.
3min 50secs into video..
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Post by mcbogga on Feb 22, 2016 4:40:31 GMT -5
It's a sad state of affairs that these great courses get humiliated. It's no fault of the designers.
#letbirdiebebirdie
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Post by scarpacci on Feb 22, 2016 22:14:33 GMT -5
"joke" might be a little harsh. There are a few holes the wind doesn't allow an approach anywhere near the pin. I can't control that. 16, the long par 3 in the back may be impossible to hold on Sunday. That hole plays a lot better with the slower greens in the original. I was asked to bump up the green speeds for the tour set-up and added a bit of a backstop to compensate, but with the double digit tailwind even that wont help. I was able to get close in rd 1 so I know it is possible, but not easy for sure. Thanks for the comments guys. "I was asked to bump up the green speeds for the tour set up". Just my opinion but if a designer has spent 50+ hours designing and hitting hundreds or thousands of test practice shots into greens that work great at the original design then should they really have to alter the course just to "Sweeney Proof" it and in the process piss off 50% of the field? Not trying to bash anyone, but after 2 or 3 weeks of firm/fast did this course even need modifying with how some players have struggled on the slightly softer R2 version? To be honest I probably should have pushed back on that more than I did. However, I am no where near the quality of player I'm trying to design for and could take a million shots and still not replicate their results. I thought R2 was going to get shredded but it has held it's own. Problem is there isn't enough pin placements for 4 rounds. Not really a design flaw, since this course was designed with bump and run in mind (not this extreme). Another potential issue with the FRI set-up is that it's nearly 8000 yards long with soft FW's. OK for 1 rd, but 4 could be a disaster if the winds are up. One thing I am guilty of is focusing too much on the top players scoring. This tour set-up would really benefit from having an elite division but I really doubt that will ever happen. I'll have to wait and see but I'm expecting the cut-line to be around -10 or -11. Seem's reasonable. But if this is what it takes to get there, i guess not.The cut at Scarpacci Island was -21 IIRC. That's unreasonable IMO. I have released courses since Spectacle aiming for a middle ground. I thought Scarpacci Hollow would do the trick with med firmness / fast greens with plenty of tricky slopes and pins. I had trouble getting more than 5-6 under in no wind. -12 by a CC player 20 minutes after release. Scarpacci Bluffs, 7700 yards, med firmness, fast greens, tricky pins, not used on tour but would likely get destroyed. Scarpacci Hills Restoration was my latest attempt and this is the perfect difficulty for me, but too short/soft and would get hammered on tour. I'm just not cut out for designing courses for the big tours and I can accept that. I'm more than happy designing for the CC crowd. I just love having the best players in the game compete on a course I designed. It's so very cool and I'm a little bummed I can't seem to get it done.
I would like to say I appreciate every comment in this thread. I'm not trying to sell anybody on this course but I did want to have a chance to respond to some of the criticism and didn't want to muddy up the locker room thread. I realize it's not everybody's cup of tea and I would never expect 100% approval of any of my courses.
Cheers! (I'm on the Euro tour now so I have to start using the lingo)
Maybe the easiest solution is to just create courses that have maxed out green speeds and if they work perfectly fine then other pin location versions with slower speeds would work without having to worry about it? Much easier to turn the dial down then turning it up and getting unwanted red or yellow slopes appearing.
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Post by scarpacci on Feb 22, 2016 22:38:52 GMT -5
And just for the record, I did play the tournament but was somehow removed from the player list so I wasn't able to submit my scores. I don't want people to think I did't even bother playing my own course. I was -11 after the first 2 rounds so it will be interesting to see if I would have made the cut. Choked big time on the weekend. Bummed I got booted but my bad for not taking a screen shot after registering. I'm new to the whole online gaming league thing so that's never on the top of my mind.
I really enjoyed my 4 rounds and I'm not just saying that. I was tentative on my putts, which is rare. I tried to get creative with my approaches, sometimes I pulled it off, others I failed and led to some awkward recovery shots. That little fraction flop is something I'm working on and I got plenty of practice this week. Not too much to think about off the tee but that was intentional since the rest of the course can be so punishing.
I hope at least some of you had a similar experience. Those that just down right hated it, I can understand that. The silver lining may be in the fact that courses like this, while not everybody idea of fun, do make you become a better player whether you realize it or not. My next few rounds at more player friendly venues were some of the best I've ever had.
Good luck to all, Bob's your uncle! (still working on my lingo, not sure I used that right)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2016 22:59:40 GMT -5
I almost held the 16th green in R4, ended up on that back fringe by about 1 inch.....not sure how it didn't come down. Decided to putt and aimed my marker at 6 inches and it went 9 feet by the cup. The par save was showing right to left break and it went virtually straight which was my only bogey in R4. As I said in the spoiler thread I had a handful of putts that I left 4 inches short that were dead online.
It does seem as though with all the fast and firm going on that if you throw in a soft and slow it screws quite a few people off with putting. I know Brad hates slow greens lol.
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