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Post by Brighttail on Feb 15, 2016 8:54:36 GMT -5
Also on a different subject, squirt has apparently been turned down, but not taken out completely. Sadly for some people it has actually gotten worse. Brionne told me he has quit the TGC Tours because of it. Playing him every few days I see it first hand happening to him. On my screen it shows he is hitting outside the red and his ball reacts that way. On his screen he white lined it and yet it reacts like he hit outside the red. For me since the PC patch I have lost about 4-5 shots per round due to putting. I've simply been unable to adjust to the new putting style and when I thought I had it, something seemed to change. So I play, don't play and just chug along until I hope HB figures out what is going on. Is it really that bad? I find it disheartening that a quality player and upstanding person as Brionne has lost interest over this. I have not played PC much since the PS4 fixed the swing where you didn't have to jam the crap on your forward swing. Hope they figure it out and straighten it out. Odd that I almost do not notice any ball squirt, but hear that others feel an increase on another platform. Hope it has not become imbalanced. It would be a loss to the community to lose players like yourself or Brionne. I remember learning a lot from watching a Brionne video way back when I was new. When it comes to Brionne, I've played him many times and I have seen the struggles he has gone through. Hitting a ball straight in the middle of the red only to have it tail to the right/left for no apparent reason, even after they say they have toned down the squirt a lot is quite frustrating when it happens multiple times a round. Concerning the ball going over the center of the hole, even if it was hit a bit too firmly, as the ball goes over the hole, (unless it is hopping, which I have never seen in TGC) the moment the ball loses contact with the ground (going over the hole), it should start dropping. If it is hit too hard, it would make contact with the back of the hole and at least hop/jump upwards and/or change direction if you didn't hit it perfectly straight. The putts we are talking about shows no hop or deviation of any sort. It is as if the hole doesn't exist. I have had balls roll straight over the center of the hole and stop less than a foot after the hole, so I don't believe speed is an issue. This leads me to two possible conclusions. 1. We did hit it too hard, there was a bounce of some sort but the there is a graphical bug that does not show it in certain circumstances. 2. The hole or part of the hole literally on some putts does disappear. I have seen when I have an uphill or downhill putt and i'm looking at the break of the hole from ground level, the hole will often disappear into the green. I have always assumed this was due to the hill and my view was just blocked, but what if the hole when created on this hill isn't exactly flush with the ground? An object set within an object that isn't perfectly set. If so then on some shots, part of the hole may conflict with the green and might not exist? Sound a bit weird? Perhaps, but in complex coding who knows what was missed or isn't working properly. As this whole thread has pointed out was there are bugs within the coding. So when you have multiple players all stepping up and saying, 'The ball goes over the hole at times and acts as if the hole isn't there.' I doubt we all hit it too hard with no hop or anything.
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Post by tastegw on Feb 15, 2016 9:03:47 GMT -5
were those downhill putts where the cup is slanted due to the break? the call could roll right over it if hit too firmly.
ill just say this:
i have never ever ever had a ball roll over the cup that if it missed to the left or right would have stopped within a foot or two of the cup (for speed comparisons)
i have also seen many mouse users try to jack the ball in the cup to null the break, this leaves them with much longer 2nd putts than they would have hoped to not see.
answer me this:
when you see this glitch when the ball rolls over the cup and does not hit anything, so its not slowed down, how far past the cup is it rolling? no sugar coating please.
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Post by Brighttail on Feb 15, 2016 11:13:12 GMT -5
It has happened on uphill and downhill putts for me. It has gone over the hole and past the hole 6 inches to 3 feet. I would say maybe the 3 foot may have been too hard.
It seems there are quite a few that this has happened to, but like squirt, no one believed the few of us who were saying it was real for a very long time. Then HB confirmed it was in the game from the beginning and we were proved right.
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Post by ABU_Bear on Feb 15, 2016 23:17:02 GMT -5
answer me this: when you see this glitch when the ball rolls over the cup and does not hit anything, so its not slowed down, how far past the cup is it rolling? no sugar coating please. under a foot coming back the majority of times. Happens more times than not on relatively flat putts
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Post by t2theb2 on Feb 17, 2016 18:44:50 GMT -5
Had this loads of times. But when i hit it firm, so i dont see the problem here. I for one used to putt very firmly but in the last third of last season something changed, either a small tweak(update) for the putting where the more agressive approach results in many more things like ron described or not sure if we it were the speeds of greens. Either way i changed my putting completely. No where near as agressive now and as a result i have few of tese things happen. I have git to say i am glad you(anyone) cannot be as agressive. We should not of been able to putt like that anyway. I am not for one mintute saying this will fix it for everybody but it sure helped me with lip outs and ball going over the cup.
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Post by mcbogga on Feb 18, 2016 3:32:37 GMT -5
It happens occasionally for sure. Have not seen it for center cup however. What I guess is that it is the same bug, so instead of tipping the ball into the cup its sent towards the edge where it then "lips out" which makes it look like it just floated over the hole. It usually has a "studder" when it happens and for me it is always when it is reaching the hole with some pace.
Personally I have never had it stop closer than 2 feet when this has happened. One foot is 1/3 of a grid square...
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Post by Brighttail on Feb 21, 2016 19:13:56 GMT -5
While playing my Tye Dunes tournament today, I noticed something I haven't seen before but I have heard others talk about.
The ball rolling towards the edge the cup and it 'stutters' as it rolls. It doesn't hop, nor does it change direction. Instead it feels like the computer program is deciding what happens next as it hits the edge. This happened three times. One time it stuttered and disappeared apparently finding the hole but I never saw it drop. The next time it stuttered and rolled by straight without changing direction. The third time it was a 3 foot putt and it broke right to left, I aimed high and it was curling like it was going to go in, stuttered at the hole and it was like it de-materilized at the hole and rematerialized about 6 inches later stopped dead. I never saw it stop rolling.
Now this was all on the 32 bit version because for some reason the 64 bit version refuses to load on my system. For those that don't know I have a pretty hefty system. I average a consistent 70+ FPS usually closer to 90. There should be no stuttering.
While talking with Anthony about the ball going over the center of the hole with no hopping or such this is how he replied:
Ball Speed as it moves over the hole, is too quick for gravity to have an effect on the Y-Axis Meaning that when travelling along Z-Axis 1.000 to 10.000 at a Y-Axis of 0.0000 When the hole appears at 5.0000 on the Z for 0.2000 units. Changing the Y to 0.0030 before changing back to 0.0000 The ball travels at a velocity of 0.2000 a second, meaning that the gravity isn't being applied as the ball is already past the hole when it goes to check agian. Giving the animation affect that nothing has appended. Although we do apply a small velocity slow down to the ball.
I'm trying to figure out what he means by "gravity isn't being applied as the ball is already pass when it goes to check again." Does this mean if the ball it hit harder than lets say 1 foot past the hole, the 'gravity' check may end up happening after it passes the hole even if it goes over part of the hole or does this mean since the velocity which is .2000 a second in the above scenario is greater than the .0030 dip you get at the hole, it can never go in? One worrisome thought is that the 'check' that is looking for the hole for downward velocity may not be checking every second of the putt but only in intervals. So if you hit the ball just a little harder so the velocity is moving faster than the check, does that mean you can miss a putt just cause the game didn't check for the hole quick enough? So many questions to try and understand how things have changed.
If this is the case then the game really wants you to be putting at hole speed with like 6inches beyond or such. I'm throwing out numbers but one thing I have noticed is hole speed has become much more necessary than ever before since the last patch.
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Post by mcbogga on Feb 21, 2016 21:58:41 GMT -5
I think for sure its checking at least once eery second.
Isn't the hole a construct outside the normal Unity physics that has its own code for behavior entirely? The program polls for ball contacting this object and runs the hole physics routines based on ball direction, point of contact and velocity?
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Post by Brighttail on Feb 21, 2016 22:03:57 GMT -5
I think for sure its checking at least once eery second. Isn't the hole a construct outside the normal Unity physics that has its own code for behavior entirely? The program polls for ball contacting this object and runs the hole physics routines based on ball direction, point of contact and velocity? That is what i'm thinking, so if that is true, then putting is about hole speed. Anything faster and you are risking going over the hole without the gravity check which is bad programming.
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Post by mcbogga on Feb 21, 2016 22:11:00 GMT -5
Agreed. Cup physics are slightly off. But it's more the reaction of misses than that more putts should go in, imo. Possibly it could be a bit more lenient on putts rammed in the dead center of the cup, but overall it's a good balance now in terms of sink rates with no grid. They should fix the floating over the hole and strange edge interations however.
I will say that most people putt very agressively in game and still expect putts to drop when not center cup. 3 feet past does not look like much on screen but good holing speed would have the ball in most cases stop within that distance.
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Post by Brighttail on Feb 21, 2016 22:22:46 GMT -5
Agreed. Cup physics are slightly off. But it's more the reaction of misses than that more putts should go in, imo. Possibly it could be a bit more lenient on putts rammed in the dead center of the cup, but overall it's a good balance now in terms of sink rates with no grid. They should fix the floating over the hole and strange edge interations however. I will say that most people putt very agressively in game and still expect putts to drop when not center cup. 3 feet past does not look like much on screen but good holing speed would have the ball in most cases stop within that distance. Absolutely, Mr. Doyley loves the aggressive putting to cut out break. I used to putt with more speed and have changed more to hole speed, which worked up until the December patch. After that the edges became like glass. We've seen there are bugs in putting and I highly doubt that HB will fix anything other than the bug I talked with Anthony. They simply don't see an issue with it, despite many of us saying there is an issue. Why? Cause they said they didn't change anything in putting. What they won't admit is by changing the countours of the green or how a slope may react on the fairways, may have unintended consequences to putting. Now my putting is half of one and half of another with no consistency at all over two rounds. Once I switched to hole speed i started actually getting MORE lip outs especially from 3-8 feet. Apparently others have figured it out.
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Post by mcbogga on Feb 22, 2016 1:48:07 GMT -5
I don't think it's that bad. Putts that should miss do miss and occasionally one that should have dropped don't. That's golf.
What irks me is the actual ball behaviour.
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Post by MrSourNinja on Feb 22, 2016 14:50:02 GMT -5
The ball behavior in itself is so unrealistic
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Post by Brighttail on Feb 23, 2016 14:43:15 GMT -5
This happened today. First time I have seen it to this degree. Finally physics that make sense!
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Post by golfjoe on Feb 23, 2016 18:44:57 GMT -5
Glad to here it`s not just me that has all these problems i`m on a ps4, i played my first comp today ccd 1st round of -4 then the second round just got to frustrating to carry on 3 good puts ran straight over the middle of the hole, the jerky swing came back giving me 85 percent power,as for doyley hits at the middle of the hole i`d say we all aim for the middle of the hole but when it goes straight over the dam hole it`s just a joke, as for HB fixing the problem how many times have they tried all they do is cock things up even more, bring back tiger woods all is forgiven. oh nearly forgot it`s my first and last com.
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