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Post by Hailthetale on Feb 1, 2016 11:08:44 GMT -5
This weeks Course at St. George was kinda on the fantasy side of thing and I thought it could use some work to make it look better. I feel like there are courses out there that are tournament quality that dont get enough cred and im just tired of the challenge circuit getting not so good courses. idk it could just be me that feels this way but i like to play realistic courses that should be on the tour
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Post by DetFan1984 on Feb 1, 2016 11:54:57 GMT -5
Preach
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Post by theclv24 on Feb 1, 2016 12:00:46 GMT -5
I've said it before, and I'll say it again:
If you want better/different courses, be proactive, not reactive!
There are a number of places to contribute course suggestions. There is a thread devoted to CC course suggestions in particular. Contact commish@tgctours.com and volunteer to be a course ranger, or see if the course selector needs any help.
Whatever you choose to do, do something other than complaining. It's annoying to a course selector who volunteers their own time to test dozens of courses each month, and who always has a hard time getting testing feedback. You may not believe me, but everyone seems to have an opinion until you actually ask them to help out, and then all of a sudden they are much less opinionated.
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Post by TimB on Feb 1, 2016 12:05:31 GMT -5
I'm not touching the topic with a ten foot pole. But I do have a question.
"having a hard time getting testing feedback"
I play every day and would have no problem if Ola were to pm courses he wants feedback on if thats what you mean. Or whatever he needs. That said I quit being a reviewer because i didnt like ripping someone elses hard work apart. But if its a case of can you play this, do you think it would be a good fit etc...sure
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Post by DetFan1984 on Feb 1, 2016 12:07:27 GMT -5
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: If you want better/different courses, be proactive, not reactive!There are a number of places to contribute course suggestions. There is a thread devoted to CC course suggestions in particular. Contact commish@tgctours.com and volunteer to be a course ranger, or see if the course selector needs any help.
Whatever you choose to do, do something other than complaining. It's annoying to a course selector who volunteers their own time to test dozens of courses each month, and who always has a hard time getting testing feedback. You may not believe me, but everyone seems to have an opinion until you actually ask them to help out, and then all of a sudden they are much less opinionated. If you don't want to read the complaining then pass right by the subject. I've offered help in lots of areas. Get over yourself dude.
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Post by ABU_Bear on Feb 1, 2016 12:09:29 GMT -5
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: If you want better/different courses, be proactive, not reactive!There are a number of places to contribute course suggestions. There is a thread devoted to CC course suggestions in particular. Contact commish@tgctours.com and volunteer to be a course ranger, or see if the course selector needs any help.
Whatever you choose to do, do something other than complaining. It's annoying to a course selector who volunteers their own time to test dozens of courses each month, and who always has a hard time getting testing feedback. You may not believe me, but everyone seems to have an opinion until you actually ask them to help out, and then all of a sudden they are much less opinionated. As a Ranger I am exactly the way I am in real life. No need to sugar coat anything. If I don't like a course..I'm gonna say it. The problem is the majority of feedback that is asked for in the Ranger's threads is lag based only. If I was asked simply...good?.. or.. crap?... I could answer better. I think for the most part if a course makes it to the Rangers selection threads...it's pretty much already been penciled in the Selector's mind.
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Post by Hailthetale on Feb 1, 2016 12:23:20 GMT -5
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: If you want better/different courses, be proactive, not reactive!There are a number of places to contribute course suggestions. There is a thread devoted to CC course suggestions in particular. Contact commish@tgctours.com and volunteer to be a course ranger, or see if the course selector needs any help.
Whatever you choose to do, do something other than complaining. It's annoying to a course selector who volunteers their own time to test dozens of courses each month, and who always has a hard time getting testing feedback. You may not believe me, but everyone seems to have an opinion until you actually ask them to help out, and then all of a sudden they are much less opinionated. i would love to suggest courses for the challenge circuit but wheres the thread for it?
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elguapo79
Weekend Golfer
Posts: 114
TGCT Name: Jeremy Phelps
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Post by elguapo79 on Feb 1, 2016 12:23:24 GMT -5
I must agree and disagree with OP.
On one hand, I hated the look of the many crisis crossing wooden walkways across water.
On the other hand, I enjoy the occasional course with non-traditional elements like this one. We get plenty of beautiful courses -- I also want some variety.
For example, in my search for fun courses to play, and the course I've been trying to design forever, I love the look of a hidden gem that's stuck out in the middle of nowhere in some Podunk town. The type of place with a clubhouse that sells steamed hotdogs and candy bars and little else. A fun course doesn't have to have majestic views or fountains or helipads.
--But I get looking for a sim experience at TGCTours. I know I'm probably one of few who doesn't mind a little strange mixed in.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2016 12:28:14 GMT -5
Design wise, I have had no problems with any of the courses selected. They have all been extremely well made. My only "minor" complaint is that I felt a few of the courses were maybe a tad difficult for us poor lower class players. If I were in PGA or Web, I'd have zero complaints. I should be able to handle anything thrown at me. E Class? Not so much. A few of these courses were brutally difficult for those of us in the lower classes. But, maybe that's why we're in the lower classes and deserve to stay there. That's the other side of the coin.
As far as offering feedback and suggestions and even testing courses, I'd be happy to. It would take a lot for me to truly bash an entire course. Some holes, here and there, have had extreme green breaks around the pin, such as hole 11 in the most recent course, that I feel should not be allowed for any class as I think it violates PGA course design suggestions, if I'm reading them correctly. But other than that, the course is great, I love it, I shoot fairly well on it and I have no other problems with it.
In fact, I welcome challenges as that's the only way to get better. But some challenges I feel should be confined to the upper classes. Where the line is drawn is the difficult part and it's a thankless job that I'd never want to have. So I tip my cap to the guys who work so hard to bring us these courses on a weekly basis.
Right now, I just want to improve my game and maybe become a better course designer myself. To that end, I'll play whatever you guys throw at me.
Keep up the good work.
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Post by ErixonStone on Feb 1, 2016 12:29:29 GMT -5
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Post by ErixonStone on Feb 1, 2016 12:43:26 GMT -5
My only "minor" complaint is that I felt a few of the courses were maybe a tad difficult for us poor lower class players. If I were in PGA or Web, I'd have zero complaints. I should be able to handle anything thrown at me. E Class? Not so much. A few of these courses were brutally difficult for those of us in the lower classes. But, maybe that's why we're in the lower classes and deserve to stay there. That's the other side of the coin. . This is what makes course selection for Challenge Circuit so difficult - there are players within a very broad spectrum of ability. It's very difficult to find a course that isn't super frustrating for CC-E and CC-Z and isn't a snooze-fest for CC-A. Playing the game should be fun above all else. I know Mrooola plays a lot of courses, but while there are more and more high-quality courses released every day, a lot of designers are trying to create difficult courses these days. That's why I had suggested using two courses for CC - one for Tiers A, B and C; another for tiers D, E, and Z. I'm just not sure how difficult this is to implement for the TGCTours Admins, as they would have to set up another tour and customize the API for that tour. Not sure if this is something that even could be done mid-season.
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Post by Hailthetale on Feb 1, 2016 12:56:35 GMT -5
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Post by theclv24 on Feb 1, 2016 13:16:43 GMT -5
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: If you want better/different courses, be proactive, not reactive!There are a number of places to contribute course suggestions. There is a thread devoted to CC course suggestions in particular. Contact commish@tgctours.com and volunteer to be a course ranger, or see if the course selector needs any help.
Whatever you choose to do, do something other than complaining. It's annoying to a course selector who volunteers their own time to test dozens of courses each month, and who always has a hard time getting testing feedback. You may not believe me, but everyone seems to have an opinion until you actually ask them to help out, and then all of a sudden they are much less opinionated. If you don't want to read the complaining then pass right by the subject. I've offered help in lots of areas. Get over yourself dude. Wtf is the attitude for? Why would I pass over the subject when I'm responsible for making the tours as good as they can possibly be? I'm offering ways to for people to offer help, rather than complaining after the fact, which really does little to help improve the selections good forward. It just brings the level of discussion down and causes resentment. If you really are offering help in different areas, great, thanks for your help! But don't tell me to get over myself when I am trying to help make things better. The attitude is uncalled for.
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Post by theclv24 on Feb 1, 2016 13:20:48 GMT -5
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: If you want better/different courses, be proactive, not reactive!There are a number of places to contribute course suggestions. There is a thread devoted to CC course suggestions in particular. Contact commish@tgctours.com and volunteer to be a course ranger, or see if the course selector needs any help.
Whatever you choose to do, do something other than complaining. It's annoying to a course selector who volunteers their own time to test dozens of courses each month, and who always has a hard time getting testing feedback. You may not believe me, but everyone seems to have an opinion until you actually ask them to help out, and then all of a sudden they are much less opinionated. As a Ranger I am exactly the way I am in real life. No need to sugar coat anything. If I don't like a course..I'm gonna say it. The problem is the majority of feedback that is asked for in the Ranger's threads is lag based only. If I was asked simply...good?.. or.. crap?... I could answer better. I think for the most part if a course makes it to the Rangers selection threads...it's pretty much already been penciled in the Selector's mind. I agree that they do seem somewhat penciled in. I will argue for the selectors, though, that by the time more than just a few Rangers have tested a course, it's too late to switch to a different course and have that one fully playtested by the time a course must be announced for a date. In theory, the ideal setup would be to have a large number of courses playtested and approved many months in advance. In reality, though, we know that both the selectors and testers have things going on in life and can't always get that far ahead. All we can do right now is to push for more testers, and hopefully get more user suggestions ahead of time in the course suggestion thread.
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Post by mrooola on Feb 1, 2016 18:33:07 GMT -5
As often when Im about to post somerhing like a wall of text, I ask myself if I really should. The answer to that question is often no and this is one of those times. Just like a reachable par 5 though I most likely go for it anyway. So here is my personal opinions thoughts and reasoning on the topic. I will NOT speak for anyone else than myself. I do NOT speak for anyone in this position prior to me, any designers other than myself and definetly none of the staff members of tgctours. This also is not a defence speach. Im not offendes by op in any way shape or form. This is just me talking on tje subject. So... I can only speak for myself and what I've done, but there are a lot of people with opinions when it comes to courses. Looks, feel, difficulty, playability, speed, firmness.... well you name it. If there is an option to chose from, there is an opinion about it. I've selected 2 courses for the CC tour thus far. Douglas Harbor and The Willows. 3 that are upcoming. Drayton, Fossmill and next week's Spirit Mountain. So thats my short track record in my increadibly short period as CC course scheduler. Are there better courses out there suited for CC? There might just be. Here is the thing though. My first selected course was douglas harbor. Fantastic track imo and recommended by a few players on CC as well. Fossmill was also suggested to me by CC tour members. What is my point here? Lets be honest. I have no clue how to satisfy all members on the CC tour every week. It's not possible I think, but I do listen to you who play the tour. Biggest concern with my "job". To cater courses for players who are beginners AND top tour quality players. It's not an easy crowd really... So far I love it though! What I've tried to do with my selections is to find courses that pinpoint different aspects of the game. Difficulty off the tee, course management and putting would be the main focus areas. To mix up the difficulty and to generally just have courses that are different from one week to the next is also important to me. I hope the designers dont mind here but douglas was an easy course, willows was tougher and spirit mountain is somewhere in between. So how have people reacted to these courses so far? Not much. At all. There is a group in CC-E through CC-D that tends to talk about the courses during practice, but that's pretty much it. They reacted as you might expect. Hunky dory on douglas, kicking and screamimg on the willows and mixed feelings on spirit mountain. Pretty much what could be expected I think. Vital information to me. So what I'm saying with that is that unless I get feedback on what's wrong or what's good about a course, I'm really just guessing and using my personal opinions on what is a good course and what isn't as a measuring stick for all of you. It also means that as long as the leaderboard at the end of the week reflects somewhat what I would expect I'm doing something right. Now.. I can't play all courses released and tbh. If it isn't in the tgctour course database I probably won't be bothered finding out right now. To find courses suited for tour play outside of that database I need your help. Use the suggestion thread or PM. Create a new thread tag me in the completed sections. All works and I probably read about 99% of all threads on here anyway. You help me and I'll help you. Just not all of you all the time We need more Rangers so if you want to help out please do contact the staff. As mentioned above we need courses tested. I'm grateful for the effort all Rangers put in and without them it would be impossible to make this work. We just need more. It's difficult though. We all have our daily lives and many have little to no time to put in outside the various tour rounds for the week. That's fine. Just hope that the general flow of feedback increase and not just the complaining. The constructive feedback is what moves us forward. I've gone on for too long now and I feel I forgot most of what I was supposed to say along the way so take this for what it is and please do voice opinions. One thing though. If you pm me with a "this course is crap and all things about it is crap" kind of feedback, I can guarantee you that it won't influence any selections in the future.
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