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Post by Tim on Feb 1, 2016 18:48:34 GMT -5
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: If you want better/different courses, be proactive, not reactive!There are a number of places to contribute course suggestions. There is a thread devoted to CC course suggestions in particular. Contact commish@tgctours.com and volunteer to be a course ranger, or see if the course selector needs any help.
Whatever you choose to do, do something other than complaining. It's annoying to a course selector who volunteers their own time to test dozens of courses each month, and who always has a hard time getting testing feedback. You may not believe me, but everyone seems to have an opinion until you actually ask them to help out, and then all of a sudden they are much less opinionated. If you don't want to read the complaining then pass right by the subject. I've offered help in lots of areas. Get over yourself dude. You can stop right there pal. He doesn't have to pass right by anything. CLV is an admin at TGCT and is a key part of our core team. Please do not talk to any admin that way. No place for that here. If you don't like what countless guys voluteer to give you for free, there are other places to play. Thank you.
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Post by DetFan1984 on Feb 1, 2016 19:25:10 GMT -5
Respect works both ways.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2016 19:31:54 GMT -5
As often when Im about to post somerhing like a wall of text, I ask myself if I really should. The answer to that question is often no and this is one of those times. Just like a reachable par 5 though I most likely go for it anyway. So here is my personal opinions thoughts and reasoning on the topic. I will NOT speak for anyone else than myself. I do NOT speak for anyone in this position prior to me, any designers other than myself and definetly none of the staff members of tgctours. This also is not a defence speach. Im not offendes by op in any way shape or form. This is just me talking on tje subject. So... I can only speak for myself and what I've done, but there are a lot of people with opinions when it comes to courses. Looks, feel, difficulty, playability, speed, firmness.... well you name it. If there is an option to chose from, there is an opinion about it. I've selected 2 courses for the CC tour thus far. Douglas Harbor and The Willows. 3 that are upcoming. Drayton, Fossmill and next week's Spirit Mountain. So thats my short track record in my increadibly short period as CC course scheduler. Are there better courses out there suited for CC? There might just be. Here is the thing though. My first selected course was douglas harbor. Fantastic track imo and recommended by a few players on CC as well. Fossmill was also suggested to me by CC tour members. What is my point here? Lets be honest. I have no clue how to satisfy all members on the CC tour every week. It's not possible I think, but I do listen to you who play the tour. Biggest concern with my "job". To cater courses for players who are beginners AND top tour quality players. It's not an easy crowd really... So far I love it though! What I've tried to do with my selections is to find courses that pinpoint different aspects of the game. Difficulty off the tee, course management and putting would be the main focus areas. To mix up the difficulty and to generally just have courses that are different from one week to the next is also important to me. I hope the designers dont mind here but douglas was an easy course, willows was tougher and spirit mountain is somewhere in between. So how have people reacted to these courses so far? Not much. At all. There is a group in CC-E through CC-D that tends to talk about the courses during practice, but that's pretty much it. They reacted as you might expect. Hunky dory on douglas, kicking and screamimg on the willows and mixed feelings on spirit mountain. Pretty much what could be expected I think. Vital information to me. So what I'm saying with that is that unless I get feedback on what's wrong or what's good about a course, I'm really just guessing and using my personal opinions on what is a good course and what isn't as a measuring stick for all of you. It also means that as long as the leaderboard at the end of the week reflects somewhat what I would expect I'm doing something right. Now.. I can't play all courses released and tbh. If it isn't in the tgctour course database I probably won't be bothered finding out right now. To find courses suited for tour play outside of that database I need your help. Use the suggestion thread or PM. Create a new thread tag me in the completed sections. All works and I probably read about 99% of all threads on here anyway. You help me and I'll help you. Just not all of you all the time We need more Rangers so if you want to help out please do contact the staff. As mentioned above we need courses tested. I'm grateful for the effort all Rangers put in and without them it would be impossible to make this work. We just need more. It's difficult though. We all have our daily lives and many have little to no time to put in outside the various tour rounds for the week. That's fine. Just hope that the general flow of feedback increase and not just the complaining. The constructive feedback is what moves us forward. I've gone on for too long now and I feel I forgot most of what I was supposed to say along the way so take this for what it is and please do voice opinions. One thing though. If you pm me with a "this course is crap and all things about it is crap" kind of feedback, I can guarantee you that it won't influence any selections in the future. This was all very well said. I think it clearly lays out the logistical problems, limitations, whatever, of picking courses each week and, for the most part, I think you do a great job. I would love to be a Ranger and help out but, quite honestly, as I don't play golf in real life and have no clue what makes a "good" golf course for the tour, I wouldn't really be much help as my opinion would probably be extremely flawed. You need people who are really knowledgeable and good at this. I am not one of them. My course designs are living proof of this. My courses get ripped to shreds and rightfully so. When you don't play golf and don't know what a real course is like, you can't possibly create one. And I don't know how far I can get trying to "learn" how to do this. So far, my efforts have been pitiful to say the least. But like you said, no matter what you do, you're not going to please everybody. So just do your best and I'm sure, for the most part, the community will be content with the results if not overjoyed. Sometimes that's all you can hope for.
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Post by Doyley on Feb 1, 2016 20:33:23 GMT -5
As a Ranger I am exactly the way I am in real life. No need to sugar coat anything. If I don't like a course..I'm gonna say it. The problem is the majority of feedback that is asked for in the Ranger's threads is lag based only. If I was asked simply...good?.. or.. crap?... I could answer better. I think for the most part if a course makes it to the Rangers selection threads...it's pretty much already been penciled in the Selector's mind. Not entirely true - if enough Rangers speak up about a course not being up to the quality you all expect - we'd easily make a change. Will likely have to open up the Rangers for more volunteers as there are more than a few inactive ones these days. Appreciate those of you still contributing!
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Post by Doyley on Feb 1, 2016 20:46:02 GMT -5
This weeks Course at St. George was kinda on the fantasy side of thing and I thought it could use some work to make it look better. I feel like there are courses out there that are tournament quality that dont get enough cred and im just tired of the challenge circuit getting not so good courses. idk it could just be me that feels this way but i like to play realistic courses that should be on the tour Can you offer some suggestions (ie top 5 or 10 list) that you would love to play? We'd appreciate it!
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Post by theclv24 on Feb 1, 2016 21:57:34 GMT -5
Hey, if I said something disrespectful at any point, please point it out to me and I'll apologize for it. I actually have no idea what you could have taken offense to. Maybe you're just having a bad day... I have no problem with that either. But that statement above alone makes no sense.
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Post by TimB on Feb 2, 2016 4:09:41 GMT -5
I appreciate the time you spent writing that great post and agree with it all. I think you have done a great job. You also have taken a lot of time to spend with us in CC, and have kept up with whats being posted. I've only highlighted one point just because I want to say. I hope our banter in the practice threads has helped you gauge things on the courses being played and not hindered or downright pissed you or the staff off. There is a core group of us down here who are passionate about the game, we love playing it, we love the site and competition. You can see that on the weekends. Tournaments hit Saturday, some us rush right in and play all 4 rounds right away. Then boom same day or Sunday we have new practice tournaments set up for the following week and are right at it again. I love the week leading up to the tournaments, more so than the actual tournaments. The chatting and commiserating about the upcoming courses I get great enjoyment out of. We all talk about holes or other areas of a course that is giving us trouble, offer hints and tips and I think helps all of us improve our skills. I do feel we sometimes need to watch how we express ourselves if there is something about a course we may not like. Be more kind and diplomatic or not say anything at all. I think if said properly it will help in the future pickings of courses, but the "this course sucks' crap is not needed or wanted and I usually tune that right out. Hell in the past I've put major complainers on ignore because I don;t want to read it. What/who I would like to hear from, see post are the ones who are shooting in the high + ranges and are constantly down at the bottom of the leader boards. They are the ones who need help the most and their input on the the courses would benefit them most. They never seem to post, I don't know why, maybe they are intimidated I don't know. But they are members here too and are welcome to voice their thoughts and I wish they would. They seem to get forgotten about, they arn't in our way so who cares right? Well I do, I would love to see them get the enjoyment from the game and this site as I do. As for the rangering topic, I would offer my services since I am here playing every day anyway. But I also run a high end computer and I very rarely get any lag or stutters on any courses. I do have a ps4 though and can help there I guess. OT a bit, I loaded up Black Brook (one of my favorite official courses) on PS4 and my PC one day just to compare. It was a complete stutter fest on the PS4. I don't know how people can tolerate that. Maybe I've gotten spoiled with the PC. /Early morning musings lol/ As often when Im about to post somerhing like a wall of text, I ask myself if I really should. The answer to that question is often no and this is one of those times. Just like a reachable par 5 though I most likely go for it anyway. So here is my personal opinions thoughts and reasoning on the topic. I will NOT speak for anyone else than myself. I do NOT speak for anyone in this position prior to me, any designers other than myself and definetly none of the staff members of tgctours. This also is not a defence speach. Im not offendes by op in any way shape or form. This is just me talking on tje subject. So... I can only speak for myself and what I've done, but there are a lot of people with opinions when it comes to courses. Looks, feel, difficulty, playability, speed, firmness.... well you name it. If there is an option to chose from, there is an opinion about it. I've selected 2 courses for the CC tour thus far. Douglas Harbor and The Willows. 3 that are upcoming. Drayton, Fossmill and next week's Spirit Mountain. So thats my short track record in my increadibly short period as CC course scheduler. Are there better courses out there suited for CC? There might just be. Here is the thing though. My first selected course was douglas harbor. Fantastic track imo and recommended by a few players on CC as well. Fossmill was also suggested to me by CC tour members. What is my point here? Lets be honest. I have no clue how to satisfy all members on the CC tour every week. It's not possible I think, but I do listen to you who play the tour. Biggest concern with my "job". To cater courses for players who are beginners AND top tour quality players. It's not an easy crowd really... So far I love it though! What I've tried to do with my selections is to find courses that pinpoint different aspects of the game. Difficulty off the tee, course management and putting would be the main focus areas. To mix up the difficulty and to generally just have courses that are different from one week to the next is also important to me. I hope the designers dont mind here but douglas was an easy course, willows was tougher and spirit mountain is somewhere in between. So how have people reacted to these courses so far? Not much. At all. There is a group in CC-E through CC-D that tends to talk about the courses during practice, but that's pretty much it. They reacted as you might expect. Hunky dory on douglas, kicking and screamimg on the willows and mixed feelings on spirit mountain. Pretty much what could be expected I think. Vital information to me. So what I'm saying with that is that unless I get feedback on what's wrong or what's good about a course, I'm really just guessing and using my personal opinions on what is a good course and what isn't as a measuring stick for all of you. It also means that as long as the leaderboard at the end of the week reflects somewhat what I would expect I'm doing something right. Now.. I can't play all courses released and tbh. If it isn't in the tgctour course database I probably won't be bothered finding out right now. To find courses suited for tour play outside of that database I need your help. Use the suggestion thread or PM. Create a new thread tag me in the completed sections. All works and I probably read about 99% of all threads on here anyway. You help me and I'll help you. Just not all of you all the time We need more Rangers so if you want to help out please do contact the staff. As mentioned above we need courses tested. I'm grateful for the effort all Rangers put in and without them it would be impossible to make this work. We just need more. It's difficult though. We all have our daily lives and many have little to no time to put in outside the various tour rounds for the week. That's fine. Just hope that the general flow of feedback increase and not just the complaining. The constructive feedback is what moves us forward. I've gone on for too long now and I feel I forgot most of what I was supposed to say along the way so take this for what it is and please do voice opinions. One thing though. If you pm me with a "this course is crap and all things about it is crap" kind of feedback, I can guarantee you that it won't influence any selections in the future.
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Post by mrooola on Feb 2, 2016 4:56:41 GMT -5
TimB don't change a thing in your practice threads. I love those threads. I wish more would participate. As far as how you guys express yourself, we'll it's up to you guys and how you want to portray yourself to this community. I have no problems with the current level. I adress those comments I feel compelled to reply to. It could be to offer help and give tips, or comment on something I might feel is out of place. So keep plugging. I like them.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2016 7:04:59 GMT -5
I appreciate the time you spent writing that great post and agree with it all. I think you have done a great job. You also have taken a lot of time to spend with us in CC, and have kept up with whats being posted. I've only highlighted one point just because I want to say. I hope our banter in the practice threads has helped you gauge things on the courses being played and not hindered or downright pissed you or the staff off. There is a core group of us down here who are passionate about the game, we love playing it, we love the site and competition. You can see that on the weekends. Tournaments hit Saturday, some us rush right in and play all 4 rounds right away. Then boom same day or Sunday we have new practice tournaments set up for the following week and are right at it again. I love the week leading up to the tournaments, more so than the actual tournaments. The chatting and commiserating about the upcoming courses I get great enjoyment out of. We all talk about holes or other areas of a course that is giving us trouble, offer hints and tips and I think helps all of us improve our skills. I do feel we sometimes need to watch how we express ourselves if there is something about a course we may not like. Be more kind and diplomatic or not say anything at all. I think if said properly it will help in the future pickings of courses, but the "this course sucks' crap is not needed or wanted and I usually tune that right out. Hell in the past I've put major complainers on ignore because I don;t want to read it. What/who I would like to hear from, see post are the ones who are shooting in the high + ranges and are constantly down at the bottom of the leader boards. They are the ones who need help the most and their input on the the courses would benefit them most. They never seem to post, I don't know why, maybe they are intimidated I don't know. But they are members here too and are welcome to voice their thoughts and I wish they would. They seem to get forgotten about, they arn't in our way so who cares right? Well I do, I would love to see them get the enjoyment from the game and this site as I do. As for the rangering topic, I would offer my services since I am here playing every day anyway. But I also run a high end computer and I very rarely get any lag or stutters on any courses. I do have a ps4 though and can help there I guess. OT a bit, I loaded up Black Brook (one of my favorite official courses) on PS4 and my PC one day just to compare. It was a complete stutter fest on the PS4. I don't know how people can tolerate that. Maybe I've gotten spoiled with the PC. /Early morning musings lol/ As often when Im about to post somerhing like a wall of text, I ask myself if I really should. The answer to that question is often no and this is one of those times. Just like a reachable par 5 though I most likely go for it anyway. So here is my personal opinions thoughts and reasoning on the topic. I will NOT speak for anyone else than myself. I do NOT speak for anyone in this position prior to me, any designers other than myself and definetly none of the staff members of tgctours. This also is not a defence speach. Im not offendes by op in any way shape or form. This is just me talking on tje subject. So... I can only speak for myself and what I've done, but there are a lot of people with opinions when it comes to courses. Looks, feel, difficulty, playability, speed, firmness.... well you name it. If there is an option to chose from, there is an opinion about it. I've selected 2 courses for the CC tour thus far. Douglas Harbor and The Willows. 3 that are upcoming. Drayton, Fossmill and next week's Spirit Mountain. So thats my short track record in my increadibly short period as CC course scheduler. Are there better courses out there suited for CC? There might just be. Here is the thing though. My first selected course was douglas harbor. Fantastic track imo and recommended by a few players on CC as well. Fossmill was also suggested to me by CC tour members. What is my point here? Lets be honest. I have no clue how to satisfy all members on the CC tour every week. It's not possible I think, but I do listen to you who play the tour. Biggest concern with my "job". To cater courses for players who are beginners AND top tour quality players. It's not an easy crowd really... So far I love it though! What I've tried to do with my selections is to find courses that pinpoint different aspects of the game. Difficulty off the tee, course management and putting would be the main focus areas. To mix up the difficulty and to generally just have courses that are different from one week to the next is also important to me. I hope the designers dont mind here but douglas was an easy course, willows was tougher and spirit mountain is somewhere in between. So how have people reacted to these courses so far? Not much. At all. There is a group in CC-E through CC-D that tends to talk about the courses during practice, but that's pretty much it. They reacted as you might expect. Hunky dory on douglas, kicking and screamimg on the willows and mixed feelings on spirit mountain. Pretty much what could be expected I think. Vital information to me. So what I'm saying with that is that unless I get feedback on what's wrong or what's good about a course, I'm really just guessing and using my personal opinions on what is a good course and what isn't as a measuring stick for all of you. It also means that as long as the leaderboard at the end of the week reflects somewhat what I would expect I'm doing something right. Now.. I can't play all courses released and tbh. If it isn't in the tgctour course database I probably won't be bothered finding out right now. To find courses suited for tour play outside of that database I need your help. Use the suggestion thread or PM. Create a new thread tag me in the completed sections. All works and I probably read about 99% of all threads on here anyway. You help me and I'll help you. Just not all of you all the time We need more Rangers so if you want to help out please do contact the staff. As mentioned above we need courses tested. I'm grateful for the effort all Rangers put in and without them it would be impossible to make this work. We just need more. It's difficult though. We all have our daily lives and many have little to no time to put in outside the various tour rounds for the week. That's fine. Just hope that the general flow of feedback increase and not just the complaining. The constructive feedback is what moves us forward. I've gone on for too long now and I feel I forgot most of what I was supposed to say along the way so take this for what it is and please do voice opinions. One thing though. If you pm me with a "this course is crap and all things about it is crap" kind of feedback, I can guarantee you that it won't influence any selections in the future. Tim, I have no problem posting my comments on courses. Ironically, as my game is finally improving, I realize that my problems are not with the courses but with myself. It's easy to blame the courses when you're doing poorly. I think we've all fallen into that trap at least once in our lives. But I think if everybody was totally honest with themselves, they'd realize that whatever problem they had with a course was simply a deficiency in their own game. My 2 biggest problems in this game are firm greens and the wind. That's it. I need to get better in these areas. Courses and conditions that accentuate these things are going to give me problems. But that's not the courses fault. It's mine. Bottom line is this. 4 or 5 months ago, I was shooting 90s to over 100 on tough courses and maybe making par on easy ones. I was God awful. Yesterday I completed week 17 with 33 under par. Never done that in my life before. And I still have room for a ton of improvement. I welcome the monster courses. It's the only way I'm going to get better. Easy courses won't challenge me as much unless the winds are kicking up around 15 mph. So I say "bring it on!" The harder the better. Unless of course we all just want to bore ourselves into a coma shooting 50s all day long.
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