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Post by scarpacci on Jan 20, 2016 23:11:54 GMT -5
Hi everybody!
First off, I would like to extend my gratitude to the people behind TGCTours. What you have done here is nothing short of exceptional. The depth of the experience on this tour is like truly impressive. I acknowledge that my experience with gaming communities is limited but I suspect this has to be one of the best organized and supported "leagues" out there.
I'm both a player (not a good one) and designer (I'm getting better at this) but this post is coming more from a designer perspective. The fact that I can design a course that has the potential to be played on your tours is very cool and I am always honored when one of mine is chosen. I want people to play the courses I create and without this tour I'm not sure anybody ever would have. It's gotten to the point that now I design my courses specifically for you guys.
I find myself wondering lately about the life cycle of this tour. I know it depends a great deal on the life cycle of the game itself and I've noticed a pretty step drop off in "plays" outside of tour events. Is participation in the tour down? Is season 3 realistic? Season 4? I imagine you have enough courses already to fill up 10 more seasons. Is there a real need for more courses?
I'm really just asking out of curiosity. I'm wasting 99% of my free time in the designer no matter what, but I'm thinking it might be time to switch direction and start going for more "fun factor" type designs rather than focusing on challenging the tour players.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2016 0:32:39 GMT -5
I know what you mean about the designs. We have tons of courses and could probably go years without new courses. But I love to design and in the end, design what makes me feel good. If I don't get plays, I don't get plays. My friends play them and enjoy them. That's all that matters to me.
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Post by Doyley on Jan 21, 2016 0:53:59 GMT -5
Hi everybody! First off, I would like to extend my gratitude to the people behind TGCTours. What you have done here is nothing short of exceptional. The depth of the experience on this tour is like truly impressive. I acknowledge that my experience with gaming communities is limited but I suspect this has to be one of the best organized and supported "leagues" out there. I'm both a player (not a good one) and designer (I'm getting better at this) but this post is coming more from a designer perspective. The fact that I can design a course that has the potential to be played on your tours is very cool and I am always honored when one of mine is chosen. I want people to play the courses I create and without this tour I'm not sure anybody ever would have. It's gotten to the point that now I design my courses specifically for you guys. I find myself wondering lately about the life cycle of this tour. I know it depends a great deal on the life cycle of the game itself and I've noticed a pretty step drop off in "plays" outside of tour events. Is participation in the tour down? Is season 3 realistic? Season 4? I imagine you have enough courses already to fill up 10 more seasons. Is there a real need for more courses? I'm really just asking out of curiosity. I'm wasting 99% of my free time in the designer no matter what, but I'm thinking it might be time to switch direction and start going for more "fun factor" type designs rather than focusing on challenging the tour players. Don't see this stopping anytime soon. Quite the opposite - we're still building it up!
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Post by claybagel on Jan 21, 2016 1:16:27 GMT -5
I say design whatever course you want to design. Even if it's supposed to just be a fun course, it's possible it could still find a place on one of our tours (CC, TST, Speed, etc.).
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Post by scarpacci on Jan 21, 2016 1:33:50 GMT -5
I should correct myself. I think I was wrong when I said the life cycle of the tour is dependent on the life cycle of the game. I think the tour will continue on and adapt to either TGC2 or the next great golf game.
I guess my question is more about submitting courses. Aside from RCR is their really a point in submitting an original design? Or is it going to be so far back in the queue that by the it would be selected we will have already have moved to new game?
I'm not trying to be negative at all so please don't read into it. I've had more than my share of courses used on tour so I'm definitely not complaining about not getting picked or anything like that. I'm genuinely curious. Perhaps the list of quality "tour worthy" courses isn't as long as I imagine. I just don't know.
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Post by scarpacci on Jan 21, 2016 1:42:13 GMT -5
I say design whatever course you want to design. Even if it's supposed to just be a fun course, it's possible it could still find a place on one of our tours (CC, TST, Speed, etc.). I hear you and I do design what I want. Right now I want to design courses that try to offer a fair and fun challenge to the players on all of your tours. However, if you already have enough of those types of courses then I may want to try getting a little funky and experimental. I get a thrill out of having one of my course used on tour and played by hundreds of people. It's like the coolest thing ever to me. I know, weirdo right?
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Post by claybagel on Jan 21, 2016 1:59:22 GMT -5
I say design whatever course you want to design. Even if it's supposed to just be a fun course, it's possible it could still find a place on one of our tours (CC, TST, Speed, etc.). I hear you and I do design what I want. Right now I want to design courses that try to offer a fair and fun challenge to the players on all of your tours. However, if you already have enough of those types of courses then I may want to try getting a little funky and experimental. I get a thrill out of having one of my course used on tour and played by hundreds of people. It's like the coolest thing ever to me. I know, weirdo right? You're not alone. I had one of my courses selected for a Web.com event earlier this year and I was obsessed with seeing how everyone played it and what their thoughts were. I thought it was the coolest thing. I'm working on trying to get another one out there so I can have that experience again.
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Post by bogeyman on Jan 21, 2016 3:04:06 GMT -5
I say design whatever course you want to design. Even if it's supposed to just be a fun course, it's possible it could still find a place on one of our tours (CC, TST, Speed, etc.). PGA? Euro? Web.com?
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Post by mrooola on Jan 21, 2016 7:27:41 GMT -5
Antonio: I can't speak for all the tours, but I'm starting to find it difficult locate easier courses that has a good build quality. My overall feeling is that designers want to protect their courses from low scoring a lot more now than just 2 or 3 months ago and that is starting to show. Nothing wrong with that and more challenge has been needed. Catering for the CC tour though I can't use difficult courses every week. Need some relief.
Also. I tend to look more at newer courses and I want to use as many different designers as the quality, difficulty and timing allows.
That really is a major factor many don't realize. Timing. Some are unlucky here. Excellent courses may be overlooked from time to time because the schedulers aren't looking for courses of a particular theme or feel at a specific point of time. So when time comes for that particular theme or feel, there might be newer courses out there that also fit the bill and it once again gets over looked.
I know it's harder to get plays "these days". "These days" are on the other hand the only "days" I've ever known so for me nothing has changed. This is I believe a result of TGCTours and other tours growing in to what they are today rather than a massive increase of designers and courses. Not long ago there was a huge debate about where all the courses has gone.
No. I think people take more time practicing and playing different tours as well as a decrease in time spent playing tgc in general. Priorities change as time goes by. Not nessesarily decrease of players in general. All speculations on my behalf though and slightly off topic.
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Post by mcbogga on Jan 21, 2016 9:17:36 GMT -5
Personally - I think that until the main tours either adopt no aids or HB gives us some swing options that produces more realistic results RCRs on the main tours is not the way to go. TST will play RCRs - it's kind of in the name of the tour - but with no aids they at least don't get as humiliated.
I think there is a market for modified RCRs or "based on" courses for the main tours . Thin fairways - different tees giving more awkward angles - greens sculpted to provide a challenge for grid play. Something similar to what I did to Tobo. That could be a winning concept going forward.
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Post by misternic on Jan 21, 2016 9:33:40 GMT -5
I would also say about your comment about there already being enough courses for 10 years. It appears that new "fresh" courses are more often chosen for tournaments than older ones. Part of that is the tools keep changing and improving in the designer. Noone wants to play an event in an older theme or missing some of the newer features.
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Post by Tim on Jan 21, 2016 9:40:33 GMT -5
And I think once we get Country Clubs out this Spring, the amount of new courses needed will be even greater since individual country clubs will be running their own tournaments. Some will want their tournaments to be on more relaxed tracks especially if it's more of a social country club.
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Post by Crazycanuck1985 on Jan 21, 2016 10:17:40 GMT -5
I should correct myself. I think I was wrong when I said the life cycle of the tour is dependent on the life cycle of the game. I think the tour will continue on and adapt to either TGC2 or the next great golf game. I guess my question is more about submitting courses. Aside from RCR is their really a point in submitting an original design? Or is it going to be so far back in the queue that by the it would be selected we will have already have moved to new game? I'm not trying to be negative at all so please don't read into it. I've had more than my share of courses used on tour so I'm definitely not complaining about not getting picked or anything like that. I'm genuinely curious. Perhaps the list of quality "tour worthy" courses isn't as long as I imagine. I just don't know. I hope we aren't just picking RCR's. I'll never host a another tournament again
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Post by Moe Slorkman on Jan 21, 2016 10:34:41 GMT -5
I should correct myself. I think I was wrong when I said the life cycle of the tour is dependent on the life cycle of the game. I think the tour will continue on and adapt to either TGC2 or the next great golf game. I guess my question is more about submitting courses. Aside from RCR is their really a point in submitting an original design? Or is it going to be so far back in the queue that by the it would be selected we will have already have moved to new game? I'm not trying to be negative at all so please don't read into it. I've had more than my share of courses used on tour so I'm definitely not complaining about not getting picked or anything like that. I'm genuinely curious. Perhaps the list of quality "tour worthy" courses isn't as long as I imagine. I just don't know. I hope we aren't just picking RCR's. I'll never host a another tournament again In Web in aiming for 1 RCR a month from now on and the rest home brews! There's a demand for RCR courses but IMO the heart of the game is in the home brews and the minds of the home brewers! Although the contradiction Is id kill for a RCR Irish course to be done by a top designer and have called for it but still no sign .
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Post by scarpacci on Jan 21, 2016 12:18:10 GMT -5
Thanks for all the replies! Here is an idea... I know we have gotten away from submitting courses for particular events, but what if we expanded that idea and had a sub forum where you guys could request courses for specific events that you don't currently have a good fit for. That way designers could tailor their work for a specific need or suggest courses they have already submitted that may have been overlooked. For example: Course Request: We are currently looking for a course to host the Hyundai TOC. TOUR: PGA Tour REQUIREMENTS: Accurate re-creation of the Kapalua Plantation Course or a fictional course that meets the following specifications: Par 73 7400 yards FW: MED/FIRM GREEN FIRMNESS: MED GREEN SPEED: FAST (160-175) NOTES: Course should have the look and feel of a Hawaiian Island course. Large elevation changes, wide fairways, large undulating greens, etc...etc. Please submit your course to the TGCTours database (if you haven't already) and post pics and specs to this thread to help our team determine if it would be a good fit.
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