|
Post by ErixonStone on Jan 21, 2016 13:16:00 GMT -5
I'm starting to find it difficult locate easier courses that has a good build quality. My overall feeling is that designers want to protect their courses from low scoring a lot more now than just 2 or 3 months ago and that is starting to show. Nothing wrong with that and more challenge has been needed. Catering for the CC tour though I can't use difficult courses every week. Need some relief. Also. I tend to look more at newer courses and I want to use as many different designers as the quality, difficulty and timing allows. Finding courses that fit the needs of six flights of the Challenge Circuit is a difficult task. The quality of players in the higher CC flights is not much different from that of Web.com players, but the guys on lower CC flights might struggle with Web.com-difficulty courses. Has TGCTours considered splitting the Challenge Circuit into two tiers where CC-A, B and C play one course, and CC-D, E and Z play a different course? There are currently nine standard tours. The Challenge Circuit is serving players in the 60th through the 1st percentile. That's quite a range of ability.
|
|
|
Post by hershalcrustofsk on Jan 21, 2016 15:41:54 GMT -5
Hi everybody! First off, I would like to extend my gratitude to the people behind TGCTours. What you have done here is nothing short of exceptional. The depth of the experience on this tour is like truly impressive. I acknowledge that my experience with gaming communities is limited but I suspect this has to be one of the best organized and supported "leagues" out there. I'm both a player (not a good one) and designer (I'm getting better at this) but this post is coming more from a designer perspective. The fact that I can design a course that has the potential to be played on your tours is very cool and I am always honored when one of mine is chosen. I want people to play the courses I create and without this tour I'm not sure anybody ever would have. It's gotten to the point that now I design my courses specifically for you guys. I find myself wondering lately about the life cycle of this tour. I know it depends a great deal on the life cycle of the game itself and I've noticed a pretty step drop off in "plays" outside of tour events. Is participation in the tour down? Is season 3 realistic? Season 4? I imagine you have enough courses already to fill up 10 more seasons. Is there a real need for more courses? I'm really just asking out of curiosity. I'm wasting 99% of my free time in the designer no matter what, but I'm thinking it might be time to switch direction and start going for more "fun factor" type designs rather than focusing on challenging the tour players. First off I have to say I hope this thing never dies. I think in terms of building courses you have to make something you'll enjoy playing and building. I started out building what I liked, usually fairly difficult courses and they were getting average to poor ratings, it bothered me for some reason, even though I was enjoying every minute of the build. So I built a few courses, to try to please the majority and I think I finished like 2 of 10 because I lost interest half way through. The 2 I finished I had fun building and they got good reviews and ratings, but 2 out of 10 is a serious waste of time on the other 8. Now for the first time in a while I'm going back to what I want to do, without worrying about tour stops or ratings and I'm actually excited about a build for the first time in a while. Getting a tour stop is certainly what I find the most rewarding, but in a way worrying about it took some of the fun out for me. You've got some great courses out there and you clearly enjoy doing it, so all I've gotta say is keep building them the way you want to build them, and what ever happens, happens.
|
|
|
Post by hershalcrustofsk on Jan 21, 2016 15:46:06 GMT -5
I should correct myself. I think I was wrong when I said the life cycle of the tour is dependent on the life cycle of the game. I think the tour will continue on and adapt to either TGC2 or the next great golf game. I guess my question is more about submitting courses. Aside from RCR is their really a point in submitting an original design? Or is it going to be so far back in the queue that by the it would be selected we will have already have moved to new game? I'm not trying to be negative at all so please don't read into it. I've had more than my share of courses used on tour so I'm definitely not complaining about not getting picked or anything like that. I'm genuinely curious. Perhaps the list of quality "tour worthy" courses isn't as long as I imagine. I just don't know. I hope we aren't just picking RCR's. I'll never host a another tournament again Amen to that. As impressive as these people have been with the RCR's, for me this game is about seeing peoples own visions coming to life. Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy a well done RCR but definitely prefer the originals.
|
|
|
Post by mcbogga on Jan 21, 2016 22:01:59 GMT -5
The scoring in the new Q-school compared to the original speaks heaps of the direction course design has taken.
Original Q-school is still to me pretty much the perfect balance of courses for the top tours - maybe mix in a couple of more difficult ones like Harbour Pointe or the Ratel.
|
|
|
Post by boomboom on Jan 21, 2016 22:20:27 GMT -5
Antonio: I can't speak for all the tours, but I'm starting to find it difficult locate easier courses that has a good build quality. My overall feeling is that designers want to protect their courses from low scoring a lot more now than just 2 or 3 months ago and that is starting to show. Nothing wrong with that and more challenge has been needed. Catering for the CC tour though I can't use difficult courses every week. Need some relief. Also. I tend to look more at newer courses and I want to use as many different designers as the quality, difficulty and timing allows. That really is a major factor many don't realize. Timing. Some are unlucky here. Excellent courses may be overlooked from time to time because the schedulers aren't looking for courses of a particular theme or feel at a specific point of time. So when time comes for that particular theme or feel, there might be newer courses out there that also fit the bill and it once again gets over looked. I know it's harder to get plays "these days". "These days" are on the other hand the only "days" I've ever known so for me nothing has changed. This is I believe a result of TGCTours and other tours growing in to what they are today rather than a massive increase of designers and courses. Not long ago there was a huge debate about where all the courses has gone. No. I think people take more time practicing and playing different tours as well as a decrease in time spent playing tgc in general. Priorities change as time goes by. Not nessesarily decrease of players in general. All speculations on my behalf though and slightly off topic. You know making a course easy is easy, making it hard is hard. If you see a course you like, just ask the designer to CC it, I'm sure they would be happy to.
|
|
|
Post by scarpacci on Jan 21, 2016 23:12:13 GMT -5
Agree with boomboom. Lately I have been creating tour version of my course and submitting those to TGCT. The regular version plays easier and would be better suited for CC but there was a post a while back about only submitting 1 version as to not clog up the database. That could have been more about alternate pin versions though.
I still like my idea on the previous page though. I could stop pretending I'm ever going to be a decent golfer and compete against other designers instead. A game within the game. Unlimited design competitions. Everybody benefits.
|
|
|
Post by mrooola on Jan 22, 2016 1:48:44 GMT -5
Antonio: I can't speak for all the tours, but I'm starting to find it difficult locate easier courses that has a good build quality. My overall feeling is that designers want to protect their courses from low scoring a lot more now than just 2 or 3 months ago and that is starting to show. Nothing wrong with that and more challenge has been needed. Catering for the CC tour though I can't use difficult courses every week. Need some relief. Also. I tend to look more at newer courses and I want to use as many different designers as the quality, difficulty and timing allows. That really is a major factor many don't realize. Timing. Some are unlucky here. Excellent courses may be overlooked from time to time because the schedulers aren't looking for courses of a particular theme or feel at a specific point of time. So when time comes for that particular theme or feel, there might be newer courses out there that also fit the bill and it once again gets over looked. I know it's harder to get plays "these days". "These days" are on the other hand the only "days" I've ever known so for me nothing has changed. This is I believe a result of TGCTours and other tours growing in to what they are today rather than a massive increase of designers and courses. Not long ago there was a huge debate about where all the courses has gone. No. I think people take more time practicing and playing different tours as well as a decrease in time spent playing tgc in general. Priorities change as time goes by. Not nessesarily decrease of players in general. All speculations on my behalf though and slightly off topic. You know making a course easy is easy, making it hard is hard. If you see a course you like, just ask the designer to CC it, I'm sure they would be happy to. I both agree and disagree. I'd only ask some of the more well known and proven designers to do this. I'd hate to ask a designer to make alterations to their design and then still not use it because the alterations was not good enough.
|
|
|
Post by Moe Slorkman on Jan 22, 2016 8:10:26 GMT -5
Thanks for all the replies! Here is an idea... I know we have gotten away from submitting courses for particular events, but what if we expanded that idea and had a sub forum where you guys could request courses for specific events that you don't currently have a good fit for. That way designers could tailor their work for a specific need or suggest courses they have already submitted that may have been overlooked. For example: Course Request: We are currently looking for a course to host the Hyundai TOC. TOUR: PGA Tour REQUIREMENTS: Accurate re-creation of the Kapalua Plantation Course or a fictional course that meets the following specifications: Par 73 7400 yards FW: MED/FIRM GREEN FIRMNESS: MED GREEN SPEED: FAST (160-175) NOTES: Course should have the look and feel of a Hawaiian Island course. Large elevation changes, wide fairways, large undulating greens, etc...etc. Please submit your course to the TGCTours database (if you haven't already) and post pics and specs to this thread to help our team determine if it would be a good fit. Might be on to something here as for an example I was struggling to find a good fit of a Desert course for weeks that was a challenge. One did eventually pop up but waiting for weeks on the hope it happens is annoying. Personally im about 6 weeks ahead of myself to allow for this but having a thread for courses needed might be an Idea and give the designers a better chance of getting courses on. In web we had 6 Harvest courses in a row so I overlook them now till I get a better balance of courses played. Just having notes like week X Web will be selecting Highlands/Links if you have or will have a course post details below Distance : 7400+ Fairway : Soft/Med Greens S : Fast Greens F: Med Multipin Option: Yes
|
|
|
Post by mcbogga on Jan 22, 2016 9:14:01 GMT -5
For the TST that is easy... Just load up the PGA or European tour schedule and that's what we want.... Will accept courses "inspired by" as well. It's all written out in our course suggestion thread.
|
|
|
Post by mrohde4 on Jan 22, 2016 10:21:16 GMT -5
I love the "inspired by" or hybrid idea for RCR designs. I think a course's playability should fit within the game's playability. It's thrilling to play the real courses like Firestone or Riviera, but if the TGC design accurately reflects the real course, then the course can get shift toward the easy side of the spectrum. Driver middle of fairway...7-9 iron within ten feet....birdie. But if the holes are lengthened, fairways thinned and bunkers enlarged, all while keeping the general character of the hole, now you have a course where shooting 65 is an accomplishment - just like in real life. After all, this is a video game so the courses need to play to the game's strengths and not just making a meticulous recreation where birdie is almost a certainty on every hole given this group's skills.
|
|
|
Post by mav78 on Jan 22, 2016 17:00:57 GMT -5
I hope it lasts a little longer mate, I haven't quite got the grasp of making courses tough for the tour but I'll keep trying, I like the fact your courses are fair but still realistic.
|
|