rebs
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Posts: 43
TGCT Name: REBS
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Post by rebs on Jan 29, 2024 19:10:08 GMT -5
Just curious as to thoughts on Par 3 opening holes for all designers/GCA aficionados. In theory I don't think there is anything wrong with doing that though in practice outside of Par 3 or Short Courses they are rare. The most famous example would be the opener at Royal Lytham & St Annes which is the only one I could think of that's hosted a modern Major Championship. Previously when the US PGA played at Westchester Country Club in NY, the nines were reversed because the member 9th was seen as the better TV finishing hole, thus the par 3 10th for the members played as the first hole. Another decent course I've played, Great River Golf Club in Milford, CT, features a par 3 opener.
Having played the course I would say that the front and back contain pretty similar terrain and that 9 might make a better finisher than 18 but its also possible that they wanted the 17th as the penultimate hole and thus the routing is the way it is. I also think that because the 10th tee box is a bit far away from the staging area of the course whereas the current short opener is right there.
Any examples that you know about IRL of par 3 openers that are full regulation courses? Be curious to see more examples. Also for those that approve of the short openers, do you think a preferred type of par 3 would be better? I'd say since I'm a "Gentle Handshake" kind of guy for my openers that I'd prefer maybe a longer-ish par three that has a big opening to a receptive green.
Discuss.
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Post by sroel908 on Jan 29, 2024 19:26:40 GMT -5
In reality, a par-3 opener is a horrible idea due to pace of play. I'd imagine this is why there are so few of them. You'd have groups upon groups waiting at the tee box while foursomes of duffers like me miss the green, flub a few chips, then 3-putt.
In the virtual world, I see nothing wrong with them and would do similar to what you've said here.
I'd probably go with a mid to long distance one to allow the player to take a more full swing. Maybe tip it out at 170 or 180. I'd offer a pretty welcoming green since it's the first of the day. Lots of helping slopes. And I'd probably make it a downhill one that would offer a panoramic view of the property.
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rebs
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Posts: 43
TGCT Name: REBS
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Post by rebs on Jan 29, 2024 19:29:14 GMT -5
Yeah the pace of play issue is real and something I didn't consider. The course I play at on Men's Club tournament days has a par 3 2nd hole and that hole is backed up to all hell after a few hours, one reason is that there is a hazard left of the green and a slope with lost ball potential on the right.
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Post by fargo on Jan 29, 2024 19:31:32 GMT -5
The main issue with a par 3 opening hole in real life is scheduling tee times - you can get more groups onto the course quicker with a two or three shot opening hole. So there are going to be few modern courses with a par 3 opener, and all architects are going to be given a brief that covers not only golf related matters but also commercial matters.
So you're much more likely to find these in pre-war courses. Musselburgh is a classic example.
From a purely golfing perspective, I'm not really a fan, I want to pull out a driver on the 1st tee-box. But it's a minor issue.
In game it may raise some eyebrows, but if it's executed well then personally I would have non-issue with it.
And I agree that a longer and open fronted par 3 would be best.
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Post by sandgroper on Jan 29, 2024 21:03:58 GMT -5
Our first and 9th are both 3's. Aaaand you still need to pull out driver on the first tee as it's 240 yards...
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Post by fargo on Jan 30, 2024 0:17:00 GMT -5
Our first and 9th are both 3's. Aaaand you still need to pull out driver on the first tee as it's 240 yards... I suppose it prevents course congestion by limiting the available tee times. On second thoughts, this is a great idea, every course should do this.
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Post by sandgroper on Jan 30, 2024 1:04:09 GMT -5
We still manage 128 in the comp for both morning and afternoons. 16 flights off front and back 9.
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Post by blueblood1995 on Jan 30, 2024 2:34:27 GMT -5
[/div]
Any examples that you know about IRL of par 3 openers that are full regulation courses? Be curious to see more examples. [br
Yarra Yarra, one of the Sandbelt group of courses, previously had a long 190m par 3 opener. Then Renaissance Golf Design were handed the reins and aside from the resto/Reno work and some much needed clearing of poorly managed vegetation, one of the key changes was to the front 9 routing. From all accounts the members and club management love the old 6th hole opener, a par 4, and the par 3 is now #3 on the card.
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Post by paddyjk19 on Jan 30, 2024 3:04:50 GMT -5
Pretty sure the 1st at Birkdale is a par 3 too, as is the first at The Berkshire and Huntercombe. It’s not that common but it’s out there!
What you see more typically on classic courses is the 1st is always a short par 4 or a reachable par 5 to ease the golfer into the round, particularly on courses designed before warming up / ranges became a thing! I’m much more a fan of that as strategy
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gagepar
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Posts: 21
TGCT Name: Gage Parayko
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Post by gagepar on Jan 30, 2024 5:03:22 GMT -5
Sroel and others have made good points about the pace of play issue. The first hole of a course that I play on a regular basis is a drivable 4, which brings the same problem as 3s as most people are waiting for the green to clear, and yet it takes longer than a par 3 to play. Often I find myself waiting unusually long past my tee time to even start. While, as discussed, there are positives i agree with of drivable 4s to start (the fact of hitting a driver off the first, the benefits of a gentle opener, and excitement of possibly hitting one close out off the gate) like any other one-shorter first holes they are not ideal logistically. Although i say this in assumption as i personally have not played one, but I think a closing par 3 provides a potentially better alternative: a similar kind of quirk without causing any congestion problems and also presenting an exciting finish. I do know that Victoria GC in Melbourne has a very short par 4 first. The hole from what i’ve seen is interesting from an individual design standpoint, brings other talked about positives, and would fit well elsewhere on the course, I imagine it poses the same challenges in terms of pace of play. Courses such a Pasatiempo and Sweeten’s Cove have par 3 18th holes that I’m relatively familiar with, seem to work well, and add a unique aspect to the course.
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Post by blindwolfgolf on Jan 30, 2024 9:44:39 GMT -5
Hillcrest Golf Course in Kansas City is probably the only one I've played. It's a public Donald Ross course in dire need of a renovation, but the opener is a downhill 240y par 3 which is an absolute kick in the teeth. Quite the bold opening statement from Ross on this one, although I'm not sure that it's always been hole 1 as the club has been around for over 100 years. hillcrestgolfcourse.com/about/
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rebs
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Posts: 43
TGCT Name: REBS
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Post by rebs on Jan 30, 2024 14:53:07 GMT -5
Hillcrest Golf Course in Kansas City is probably the only one I've played. It's a public Donald Ross course in dire need of a renovation, but the opener is a downhill 240y par 3 which is an absolute kick in the teeth. Quite the bold opening statement from Ross on this one, although I'm not sure that it's always been hole 1 as the club has been around for over 100 years. hillcrestgolfcourse.com/about/Interesting, taking a look at the routing I cant see what other hole they would have used as the opener previously unless the clubhouse moved locations. That being said it would be interesting if Ross had his initial design as that hole as the first.
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rebs
Caddy
Posts: 43
TGCT Name: REBS
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Post by rebs on Jan 30, 2024 14:55:19 GMT -5
Pretty sure the 1st at Birkdale is a par 3 too, as is the first at The Berkshire and Huntercombe. It’s not that common but it’s out there! What you see more typically on classic courses is the 1st is always a short par 4 or a reachable par 5 to ease the golfer into the round, particularly on courses designed before warming up / ranges became a thing! I’m much more a fan of that as strategy Royal Birkdale? I think thats a normal par 4, but I could be wrong.
Yeah I'm all about a mid length 4 or 5 as an opener. That way its not going to tax the golfer to start the round but you don't run into the aforementioned issues of waiting for someone on the green to clear before teeing off.
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Post by metatropic on Jan 30, 2024 17:30:30 GMT -5
Yeah 1st at Huntercombe is a short par 3, really weird way to open a round. I grew up playing Yelverton which has a downhill 200 yard par 3 opener. There were always queues on the 1st which meant there was a big audience for my inevitable shanked 3-iron.
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Post by blueblood1995 on Jan 30, 2024 21:06:16 GMT -5
Yeah 1st at Huntercombe is a short par 3, really weird way to open a round. I grew up playing Yelverton which has a downhill 200 yard par 3 opener. There were always queues on the 1st which meant there was a big audience for my inevitable shanked 3-iron. Hah, hah. I prefer to shank my 54deg wedge. Goes low and has the potential to scatter people on the adjacent fairway or nearby tee !!
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