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Post by richnufc99 on May 20, 2021 13:08:17 GMT -5
As I just said over on the Boa Favela thread - started on a few NT rounds and chose Morocco and Brazil to begin with.
This is pretty cool… I’d watched a few of your streams and YouTube timelapses so I knew what to expect … but how it has all come together into a really impressive environment is great.
Enjoyed the echos of South Yarra in the bunkering… but the water and the fairway cambering brings another dimension….
Inspiring once again Ben… good luck (although why on earth would you need luck!)
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Post by robn on May 20, 2021 14:25:39 GMT -5
Another gem. Great flow. Pure golf. The stretch from 12 to 14 when the water comes heavily into play was superb. Of course I went for 13, I mean, of course. Somehow I stayed dry, luckily. Found a lot of bunkers here, needless to say inc' the central hazard on 18 haha. To my pleasant surprise I was steaming along on -8 (albeit pro difficulty, blacks/pin 2 with a mellow default) before limping to a -6 finish. Pin 2 on 16? Ooof.
Fine work again Sir.
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Post by Energ1ser on May 20, 2021 16:28:21 GMT -5
Another fantastic course Ben. Loved how the planting was in such stark contrast to the sandy terrain and each hole was framed beautifully. No bad golf holes here - all class. A strong contender for another W.
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Post by jimgem on May 20, 2021 21:53:33 GMT -5
You're getting to good at this design stuff' Haha another very nice course' really enjoyed the round...
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Post by WhatAboutAmeobi on May 21, 2021 6:50:07 GMT -5
I love, love, love b101 courses and this is no exception. I could play this course over, and over, and over. Thanks to Ben for being in chat and walking us through this gem!
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Post by cd06 on May 21, 2021 10:25:34 GMT -5
Awesome track, Ben - loved the bunkering (Moroccobelt ) and the holes by the lake shone for me. Also, hole 16 pin 2 is a BRUTE Awesome job buddy!
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Post by jeffreyb on May 21, 2021 17:08:15 GMT -5
This is getting boring and I'm running out of comments on how remarkable your courses are. I saw it come out on recent releases on the game on the first page. Based on the thumbnail, and not knowing now how we can find out in game on past designs, it didn't know who did this. After a few holes, being familiar with your work and concepts, I kind of suspected this was your handiwork. Ben, your thinking that goes into your work ans imaginations never disappoints.
Great work as always.
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Post by coggin66 on May 21, 2021 17:27:18 GMT -5
This looks great. For some reason the name in my head sounds like the The Wurzels* saying "Where's ours at?"
* Showing my age here ... look 'em up!
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Post by jwtexan on May 25, 2021 9:02:26 GMT -5
Really enjoyed watching this one come together on stream. Always impressive to me when someone designs for a crowd and I went back and caught my fair share of the vods even when I missed it live.
Some of the views and sightlines you created here are subtle but need to be appreciated.
Looked to be tough but fun, excited to see how badly Ben kicks my butt this time. Good luck in the contest!
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Post by 15eicheltower9 on May 29, 2021 21:15:59 GMT -5
Forgot this one.
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Post by alejandroacantilado on May 31, 2021 11:42:06 GMT -5
One of my all-time favorite hotels, Dar Ahlam, is near Ouarzazate! What a cool place. Will def check out.
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Post by TeeeJ9798 on Jul 9, 2021 22:09:20 GMT -5
National Treasure Top 16 bump
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Post by alexsbruce on Jul 13, 2021 10:47:30 GMT -5
Hi there, would it be possible to publish a tour version of this course with crowds and stands so I can use it to host the Morroccan Open as part of my PC European Tour society? I would be much obliged!
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Post by boynsy on Jul 21, 2021 6:21:57 GMT -5
Time to take on a big one - if I’m going to do them all then it has to happen sooner or later, so I’ll offer my thoughts now.
Obviously, as to be expected from one of the best at this point, everything is incredibly well done. The environment is pretty much nailed, loved the thick tree lines and the kind of “messy” look in the scrubby native areas. It is a shame you never got to include the village area but I love the environment you’ve created and it’s not missing anything as such, so it’s only a case of what might have been an extra cherry on top.
The greens and pins are interesting, always providing an opportunity to get close but not rewarding mediocrity. Three birdies, four bogeys and an eagle reflect that pretty much perfectly - bogeys were all bad swings or putts but I made life much harder for myself by not really engaging my brain and making smart choices.
I like how some of the bunkers “bleed” into the thick undergrowth tree lines - or maybe it’s the tree line encroaching on the bunker, but either way, I think it’s a good look. Not sure I’m quite as sold on the lack of definition between the bunkers and the bare texture - in places I loved it, but for example on the second I think I’d have preferred a clear distinction between the “golf area” and the “native area”, but that’s just me.
Part of me WISHES the 6th hole was driveable. I feel as though it’s a bit of a missed opportunity, because it’s absolutely gorgeous and I would love the view of a drive flying off towards the green, sinking an eagle putt and soaking in the environment, but at the same time it’s a strong hole as is, and 13 is a similar riverside par 4 that can be reached, so I understand why you didn’t pull the same trick twice. However, maybe it would be more appealing in reverse - driveable riverside hole first in the routing? I don’t know, just my opinion.
Forgive me if I’m wrong, but I feel like there was a lot of adverse camber on the course. 5 felt pretty extreme but not overdone, making it a tough driving hole but it is pretty obvious off the tee so can be managed by a halfway decent golfer (not me!). I also feel like the only centre line bunker on the course was on 18, which seems an odd time to introduce something to the round, but I could be wrong about that.
Speaking of the finishing stretch - how brutal! I played pin 2, which was actually reasonably accessible on 18 so I walked away with a par, but I needed that break after a missed green and bogey on 15, tough par on a tough pin on 16 and a missed par save on 17. Ruined my card, as I was -4 through 11 before dropping to -1 by the end. This would really make for a fantastic end to a competitive round, as making par almost feels like picking up a shot on most of these, and birdies would be priceless.
There’s nothing much I can really offer, though, as you’re clearly so far above my skill level as a designer, but I hope that there is at least some merit to what I’ve said here. Not my favourite of your courses (that’s Strathlorne, by a distance) but obviously very well done, clearly reasoning behind absolutely every choice made at every level. I’m sure you won’t need it, but best of luck in the top 10!
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Post by b101 on Jul 22, 2021 2:11:43 GMT -5
Time to take on a big one - if I’m going to do them all then it has to happen sooner or later, so I’ll offer my thoughts now. Obviously, as to be expected from one of the best at this point, everything is incredibly well done. The environment is pretty much nailed, loved the thick tree lines and the kind of “messy” look in the scrubby native areas. It is a shame you never got to include the village area but I love the environment you’ve created and it’s not missing anything as such, so it’s only a case of what might have been an extra cherry on top. The greens and pins are interesting, always providing an opportunity to get close but not rewarding mediocrity. Three birdies, four bogeys and an eagle reflect that pretty much perfectly - bogeys were all bad swings or putts but I made life much harder for myself by not really engaging my brain and making smart choices. I like how some of the bunkers “bleed” into the thick undergrowth tree lines - or maybe it’s the tree line encroaching on the bunker, but either way, I think it’s a good look. Not sure I’m quite as sold on the lack of definition between the bunkers and the bare texture - in places I loved it, but for example on the second I think I’d have preferred a clear distinction between the “golf area” and the “native area”, but that’s just me. Part of me WISHES the 6th hole was driveable. I feel as though it’s a bit of a missed opportunity, because it’s absolutely gorgeous and I would love the view of a drive flying off towards the green, sinking an eagle putt and soaking in the environment, but at the same time it’s a strong hole as is, and 13 is a similar riverside par 4 that can be reached, so I understand why you didn’t pull the same trick twice. However, maybe it would be more appealing in reverse - driveable riverside hole first in the routing? I don’t know, just my opinion. Forgive me if I’m wrong, but I feel like there was a lot of adverse camber on the course. 5 felt pretty extreme but not overdone, making it a tough driving hole but it is pretty obvious off the tee so can be managed by a halfway decent golfer (not me!). I also feel like the only centre line bunker on the course was on 18, which seems an odd time to introduce something to the round, but I could be wrong about that. Speaking of the finishing stretch - how brutal! I played pin 2, which was actually reasonably accessible on 18 so I walked away with a par, but I needed that break after a missed green and bogey on 15, tough par on a tough pin on 16 and a missed par save on 17. Ruined my card, as I was -4 through 11 before dropping to -1 by the end. This would really make for a fantastic end to a competitive round, as making par almost feels like picking up a shot on most of these, and birdies would be priceless. There’s nothing much I can really offer, though, as you’re clearly so far above my skill level as a designer, but I hope that there is at least some merit to what I’ve said here. Not my favourite of your courses (that’s Strathlorne, by a distance) but obviously very well done, clearly reasoning behind absolutely every choice made at every level. I’m sure you won’t need it, but best of luck in the top 10! Thanks for the kind comments and glad you enjoyed. Not sure I'll produce anything as good as Strathlorne in a hurry as I poured a stupid amount of time and effort into that one, but this one was a far more fun build. Few quick comments in response to your questions as the detailed post deserves an answer. Not saying you're wrong with these observations, but to give an insight into the decision-making process: - the bunkers/native area was always a pain and not for lack of trying! It has to do with lighting orientation, whether the bunker is high side or low side and a few other technical things. Not using much heavy rough was very much a choice to reflect the arid environment, but aware that'll work for some and less so for others. - Worth considering the knock-on effects of changing a hole when you suggest i.e. 6th - you can never change one hole in isolation as there's numerous things that should change along with it. If six were driveable, that'd mean redoing three, which was the front nine's driveable four and I wanted to use the water in a different way (on the right). It's an easy crutch to use water on a driveable four or just stick the green on the river at driver distance - something different is nice. Same reason the water isn't in play on 7. I know I've preached to use your biggest feature as much as possible, but that doesn't mean it has to cut into every green or be a carry hazard on each hole - the key is to use it with variety. In this case, with the river, you hit close to it for the angle on 6, over on the par three 7th, see wetlands on 8, have it as a backdrop on 10 (and 4/5), hit to the infinity green on 11, hit towards it on the left with a par three on 12, cut off as much as you can / drive it on 13, then play as close to it as you can on the left this time on 14. In short: the overall variety and playing interest is far more important that any single hole. - Depends on what you mean by 'adverse' camber. There is reverse camber on 5 and 10 (maybe a touch on 15, but not much) - far more severe on 10 than I've ever done before - but a number of others feature the general slope of the plot, again in different ways. Sometimes you use it to try to avoid bunkers, sometimes it funnels you into better / worse positions, sometimes it'll shorten the second shot, sometimes it provides an interesting question with the lie for the second shot. Give me an interesting lie in the fairway over heavy rough any day. A number of players won't like that hitting the fairway doesn't always mean staying on the fairway and that's because they've misunderstood the question that hole is asking. Target golf where the ball bounces straight off flat lies poses one simple question of 'can you hit straight?' again and again. Links style golf like this asks you to visualise rollout, work out where you want to be and therefore where you want to hit to and then gives you some randomness. It means that you get different questions each round and is far more interesting as a result, in my opinion. - Totally agree that the closing stretch is tough - 17 plays much easier than it looks, but 16 and 18 are tough, whilst 15 is just awkward. Not really a conscious choice, rather that these were the holes I found on the plot. Thanks for the comments and the play!
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