jswift
Weekend Golfer
Posts: 110
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Post by jswift on Aug 30, 2020 0:42:06 GMT -5
Hello all! I'm brand new around here, and have been spending the last week designing my first course. I have no experience doing this before and was hoping to get some feedback as to how it looks so far. I think I'm about a week away from being able to release it if it's not just completely terrible.
The club: Oaks Prairie Golf Club- I wanted to do a Sand Hills inspired course (not too much from the course, more the terrain). For the two nines I tried to give a slightly different feel to them, so there are more trees on the front with some smaller dunes. The fairways were built more on top of the dunes giving an elevated fairway style to a quite a few of the holes (2, 4, 5, 6, 8). The back nine features only a single tree in play after hole 10. Here, the course is routed into the far corner where several large dunes come into play. The fairways go around, over and through these. I tried to make the course feel like it never disturbed the environment.
There are four tees (7523, 7043, 6547, 6040) and four pins. I tried to make the course one with multiple options off the tee, and pretty open there. With precision required on your approach shot to score well.
Below are a few screenshots of what I have so far. I'll start giving hole descriptions tomorrow or Monday. Would love to get some feedback. I suck at the game so far (brand new) so I don't know how easy or hard the course will be yet. I have been able to make multiple birdies on every hole so far (I play the holes 20-30 times while working on them).
Hole 18 - from the fairway looking towards the green. The clubhouse in the background. 10 tee and 9 green near the refreshment stand on the right
15 tee - one of my two favorite tee boxes on the course. Looking down between 2 massive dunes, the green is actually on the left one where it curls back to the right. 16 tee is at its highest point in the distance. There is a speed slot about 290 out that takes you to a short iron approach
The front nine from above. Number 1 is in the middle left, next to the driving range. Winding clockwise with 9 along the large lake. 10 tee in the middle right with 10 green off in the distance
The back nine from the far corner of the property. 14 and 15 at the bottom. 18 in the middle left leading back to the clubhouse.
Thank you everyone and cheers!
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jswift
Weekend Golfer
Posts: 110
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Post by jswift on Aug 30, 2020 11:38:13 GMT -5
I'm going to break this down into 3 posts for hole-by-hole breakdown. I'd love any feedback possible! I'm here to share and most importantly learn from this community, there seems to be a done of very skilled people around.
Hole 1 - Par 4 - Black: 479; Blue: 405; White: 395; Red: 375
A good introduction to the course. Off the tee there are two options. Go left, where a good tee ball will leave 165-175 in, or go right where it is 282 to cover the dunes. Going right will leave a full wedge in most of the time but might not be possible if the wind is up. The green is built into the side of a small hill protected by a bunker short left and one on the right. There is a runoff area over the back. The green features two levels with a ridge running front to back. Like most holes on the course, the sections are going to be relatively flat, so landing in the ball in the right section will give a great birdie look.
Hole 2 - Par 4 - Black: 479; Blue: 405; White: 395; Red: 375 Another choice off the tee here, I really want to make you think through the tee shots on this course. For this hole a sunken green is partially blocked out by trees left and right, so to get at pins in those places you have to hit to either the short or far landing areas respectively. This hole plays pretty straight to the short landing area and is a dogleg right to the far one. Can hit a 3 iron or 3 wood to the short area, looking for about 215 off the tee leaving a long approach at 230, but the green is pretty downhill (20 feet) and landing just short will send the ball to the collection area just behind the green.
Hole 3 - Par 3 - Black: 156; Blue: 146; White: 132; Red: 112
The first par 3 of the course and its a short, but tricky one. Slightly uphill to an elevated green with a bunker hidden over the back. Missing will kick the ball away from the putting surface where you will be left with a difficult little pitch back up the hill. The green has a small ridge from the middle right to the back left that can funnel your ball closer to or well away from the pin, so you better be on the correct side of it. Pin 2 is tucked on the left just in front of the bunker, but on a very flat piece of green if you want to risk it.
Hole 4 - Par 4 - Black: 352; Blue: 337; White: 322; Red: 299
A short drive-able par 4 if the wind isn't up. It's only 322 to the front edge, and there is a slope that will run your ball into the bowl in the front right where a pin can be waiting. If you choose to not go for it, there is 275 yards to the end of the fairway up the left side, leaving a 55 yard pitch to the middle. The green is set in the midst of one of the dunes waste bunkers and is large, especially for such a short hole. Should be a good birdie opportunity, but bogey is at risk if you miss the fairway.
Hole 5 - Par 5 - Black: 569; Blue: 517; White: 501; Red: 459
Our first par 5, and it is reachable if you have some helping wind. A good drive to the middle of the fairway gives a good layup just short, if you miss though you might have to layup out to the left dodging a big oak tree in the process and leaving a longer third to the small green on the edge of a hill. If the wind is up and into you, you will have to play for the left portion of the second fairway and the longer approach shot.
Hole 6 - Par 4 - Black: 474; Blue: 461; White: 368; Red: 353
The first par 4 where the decision off the tee is a little more nuanced. The left half yields a very flat lie but a blind and slightly longer shot to the green, while on the right the ball will be very below your feet, but about 10 yards less distance and a clear view of the green. Expect your second shot to be from the 170-190 range. The green is sloped generally from back to front, but there is a biarritz type valley in the middle. A miss will be deflected off into the rough surrounding the green.
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Post by mattf27 on Aug 30, 2020 13:08:13 GMT -5
So, good news/bad news. Good news is, looks like you've got some good ideas in there. Bad news, the course also looks like it has all of the technical issues. There's just no attention to detail, but thats also to be expected first time around, with no practice, tutorials etc. It takes a lot of time and patience to create good courses, and even the fastest experienced designers are putting 50+ hours into every course, with many putting far upwards of that into their projects. Theres just not a lot thats going to go right your first time around within a week. Id recommend using this one as a practice run, hop into some tutorials and use that knowledge to improve your next one. By all means publish this one if you want, you just might have to temper your expectations of the result.
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jswift
Weekend Golfer
Posts: 110
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Post by jswift on Aug 30, 2020 13:15:30 GMT -5
What technical issues are you referring to exactly? I totally understand it's no where near being ready to publish, hence my asking for guidance. My expectation is a playable course, not really setting the bar high on my first attempt. I know that it takes practice to get right.
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jswift
Weekend Golfer
Posts: 110
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Post by jswift on Aug 30, 2020 13:18:18 GMT -5
Also, what ideas in there do you think are good? Would really like to know what is considered "good" and why.
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jswift
Weekend Golfer
Posts: 110
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Post by jswift on Aug 30, 2020 21:52:08 GMT -5
Holes 7-12 Since yesterday I've actually blown up number 11 and have started reworking it. I'm happier with it than what I had, but still feel like it's incomplete or just not quite what I'm envisioning. I have also added a decent amount of trees spread around the front nine to add ambience, none of them come into play on holes or affect sight lines. Wanted to give a little more "signature" to the front nine as the "oaks" and the back as the "prairie". Hole 7 - Par 3 - Black: 225; Blue: 214; White: 200; Red: 189 A redan inspired hole. Just like the original in North Berwick, its a blind shot from the tee, but there is plenty of area short to land the ball to access front pins. You can land the ball 30 yards short and let it roll to the green. Using the ground on this hole is going to give you a few more options off the tee than you would expect looking at the card. My favorite par 3 on the course.
Hole 8 - Par 5 - Black: 534; Blue: 461; White: 436; Red: 403
A "gettable" par 5, that requires an immaculate 3 wood unless it is playing downwind. A slight dogleg left to a fairway built on top of a dune. A sweeping draw will send your ball bounding forward. For the second there are three options: go for it - long is fine but the bunkers short brings double into the picture; layup short - a little bit tricky, but leaves you level with the green and 160 out; layup close and to the right - a sunken area will collect your ball and give you a short pitch up the steep dune to the green. I'm not really satisfied with this hole in general and am teetering on blowing up the green complex and moving it to the right into the sunken area
Hole 9 - Par 4 - Black: 435; Blue: 393; White: 383; Red: 342
The first hole on the course with water present. A sharp dogleg left around it leads to the peninsula green. A fairway bunker on the inside of the dogleg and a dune on the outside should give you a tricky decision on pulling driver and getting through the dogleg for a safer, and much shorter approach shot. Hitting your tee shot short gives you 200 yards to the middle of the green. The green has a large tier over the water and two smaller ones on the lobes that are nestled next to the greenside bunker. I plan to put a retaining wall along the hole, just haven't gotten to it yet.
Hole 10 - Par 5 - Black: 520; Blue: 500; White: 487; Red: 467
The back nine starts off with a medium length par 5. Off the tee there are two options available again, do you hit driver left over the water and have a chance at the green in two. Or, do you go right to the very wide peninsula making this a surefire 3 shot hole, but reducing your risks substantially. A well placed drive to the left leaves 215-220 to the green that butts against a deep bunker. An old dune has been covered over, but it's scars are evident in the fairway short of the green, with lots of mounding to give uneven lies and kick the ball around a little bit. The green is medium sized with some fun pin placements. Expecting short wedges as approach shots it does have some big ridges separating the tiers.
Hole 11 - Par 4 - Black: 440; Blue: 419; White: 371; Red: 348
Redone this morning, the teebox was moved forward and to the left giving a clear view of the entire fairway, dominated by the fairway bunker at 280 yards. If you carry it, a short (110-150 yard) approach shot will be left into the largest green on the course. It is slanted consistently from the right to left meaning a well played cut is needed to hold. The right side has a very steep slope that will kick balls across the green if you miss the two pins set up near that feature.
Hole 12 - Par 3 - Black: 190; Blue: 175; White: 156; Red: 116
A pretty straightforward par 3. It plays slightly downhill to a green set in the middle of a bunker. Sloping from back to front with a big ridge along the back means that long brings bogey or maybe even double into play. Be below the hole and it should be an easy birdie.
Thanks once again! And please give me your feedback, I want to learn and get better.
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jswift
Weekend Golfer
Posts: 110
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Post by jswift on Aug 31, 2020 18:17:07 GMT -5
The last of my first pass overviews. I ended up reworking the green complex for number 2 today, changing the fairways on 6 and 8, and changing number 16 from a long par 5 to a medium par 4. I also lowered the green on 8 by about 10 feet which made it seem to fit the landscape much more. I have started messing with planting and am trying to get the right look for the dunes/grassland areas. I'm happy with the density but need to add more randomness to the size of the grass to make it more believable. Two weeks until I have to go back to work, I'm hoping I can get this to a publishable status before then, but who knows.
Hole 13 - Par 4 - Black: 440; Blue: 419; White: 371; Red: 348
From the tee, the fairway is built into the back side of a dune. Can use anything from 3-iron to a chippy driver off the tee then you are left hitting across a large waste area to the generous green which has 3 tiers angled from the back left to front right. The good miss is short left with long rough waiting long and right. A small patch of fairway will allow you to run the ball onto the green for front pins.
Hole 14 - Par 4 - Black: 406; Blue: 403; White: 396; Red: 389 The only blind tee shot on the course is also the most demanding if you want a short wedge in. The fairway is angled strongly from right to left and gets steeper as you get closer to the green. There is a 40 yard flat spot starting 280 from the tee that leaves 100 yards in, just take aim at the second windmill from the left. The more conservative route is a 3-wood aimed at the left most windmill. This will leave 150-170 yards and a less favorable angle into the slopes of the green
Hole 15 - Par 4 - Black: 489; Blue: 479; White: 425; Red: 405
Here you get to turn around and get a pretty easy driving hole. The fairway is nestled between two dunes and will funnel slightly errant shots back into a great position to attack the green that is perched on the left dune. Even if this is playing into the wind it should be possible to get close if you catch the large slope 260 yards out. The left side of the fairway has a better angle to the green but is more sloped than the right. A large slope protects the two pin positions on the back tier but like many greens, if you can get pin high you will be rewarded with a fairly straight putt.
Hole 16 - Par 4 - Black: 478; Blue: 445; White: 435; Red: 399
A new hole today, and I'm still not extremely happy with it, but its much better than the slog of a par 5 that was here before. A very elevated tee shows a pretty wide fairway flanked by a dune on the right side. The green opens up from behind a bunker the farther right you are off the tee. A mid-iron should be all that is required to this gently sloping green with plenty of collection areas but not much real trouble unless you catch it fat.
Hole 17 - Par 3 - Black: 195; Blue: 183; White: 148; Red: 138
The final par 3 of the round and it's not an easy birdie hole. The L-shaped green features a prominent "thumbprint" on the long leg that you can use to stop balls, with no bunkers in play, this holes defense is the steep sides of the green requiring accuracy off the tee which is made trickier in windy conditions. There is an option to run the ball up as well, taking some of the wind out of it but introducing a bit of luck.
Hole 18 - Par 4 - Black: 478; Blue: 415; White: 405; Red: 395 The finishing hole! And the clubhouse in sight! Here you are hitting through a cut in a dune, going further left brings a waste bunker into play but gives a great look into the green. An amphitheater setting is waiting at the putting surface with the clubhouse just 70 yards behind it.
Once again, thank you for checking this out. I'm doing my best but there is a lot to learn to be half decent at this. As it stands now the course is Par 71 at 7,317 yards.
I'll probably post an update later this week with all of the changes made. I think there's only some minor green sculpting and I need to settle on what I want to do for #16. Then it is A LOT of polish to finish it up.
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Post by mattf27 on Aug 31, 2020 19:06:38 GMT -5
What technical issues are you referring to exactly? I totally understand it's no where near being ready to publish, hence my asking for guidance. My expectation is a playable course, not really setting the bar high on my first attempt. I know that it takes practice to get right. Sorry, didn't get a notification that you had replied. The surfacing is rather sloppy throughout, bunkers need a lot of work, sculpting is very severe, and there's random bits of planting plopped on top of your playing surfaces. I'd just recommend checking out some tutorials to get you started.
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jswift
Weekend Golfer
Posts: 110
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Post by jswift on Sept 1, 2020 9:06:30 GMT -5
Thanks! I found b101's tutorial series and have started checking them out. I cleaned up all of the random plantings and it does make it look much cleaner.
I can definitely see what you mean on the bunkers, they look terrible in hindsight. Sculpting them will be a big project but I'm going to start on it today after a little practice and see how it turns out.
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Post by mctrees02 on Sept 1, 2020 20:06:33 GMT -5
I think your strategy off the tee on hole 1 is backwards. The angle of the green and position of the bunkers make the right fairway the worst angle to attack the green. If I’m playing this hole, I am going up the green line the best angle in without giving up that much in distance to the flag. Also, using trees to force decisions or block off angles goes against a Sand Hills design (where angles dictate strategy not tree placement) and terrain (Sand Hills doesn't have any trees or water).
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jswift
Weekend Golfer
Posts: 110
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Post by jswift on Sept 1, 2020 23:22:20 GMT -5
Thanks for the response and feedback. On Number 1 there is a ridge that bisects the green giving better shorts for 2 of the pins from each side.
On the trees, you are correct and I've actually been contemplating removing them completely. There are only 2 that have any effect on play now and with some tweaks I think the same decisions could be forced on the golfer, and one of those holes (#5) I'm not exceptionally happy with anyway. It feels like a very weak par 5 right now
And I hadn't considered taking the water out, but being true to the design feel would be nice. #9 could be done differently, it seems excessively punitive right now especially if there is a pin out over the water. while 10 would just need some clever bunkering/dunes to give the same effect as the water
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jswift
Weekend Golfer
Posts: 110
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Post by jswift on Sept 3, 2020 15:01:50 GMT -5
Okay for starters I have published a beta. It is titled "JSwift C1.1", please play it and give me your feedback.
I have made a few changes, first of all I took tommyjohn's suggestions and removed the trees and water from the course, and it made the front nine much better. I have started planting in earnest and am probably 60% done sculpting bunkers (There's a lot of them with all of the waste areas).
Hole 5 retained the same idea - 3 shot par 5 that is on the edge of being reachable in two with options for your layup. There's potentially a change that I have mapped out for the fairway to add a layup area about 180 yards out but with no bunker issues. Going to let it stew for a few days before I decide.
Hole 9 was also completely redone. It is now a shorter par 4 435 from the Black Tees. Not really happy with it, but I have designers block right now and this was the best I could come up with. Will probably be changed before I publish the final version.
The final change is the view from 10 tee. It got a significant upgrade with the removal of the water. The fairway is now framed between the peaks of two dunes giving a really cool look. The shorter approach is to the right of the right dune still and in full view.
The final tweak was on hole 2. By taking out the trees I had to give a reason for people to pull driver besides being closer, so I put in a dune at a diagonal so that the farther you are off the tee the better the view is into the green, but there is still a pin tucked where a 3 wood is the better play.
Once again thank you to everyone especially tommyjohn and mattf for their suggestions and b101 for his amazing tutorial videos
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Post by darragh123 on Sept 3, 2020 18:58:12 GMT -5
I’m new to design aswell that is an incredible first course
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Post by agrainger12 on Sept 3, 2020 21:28:52 GMT -5
I sent you a PM of some notes that I had. This is definitely better than my first course! As people have said, watching the tutorials will be super helpful for you like they were for me and any new designer, really. At the end of the day, it just takes time to get used to the designer. The first couple courses won't be all that amazing, and, at least from my experience, you'll look back on them thinking, did I really make that? Just keep working at it, though. There's definitely potential there!
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Post by reppster on Sept 7, 2020 15:56:51 GMT -5
I like what you have going on with this course. Some interesting bunkers and cool design ideas. Looking forward to following this one.
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