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Post by lessthanbread on Dec 20, 2019 11:25:57 GMT -5
eye uh stoopid 'murican, eye doughn't no wat linky corse iz..
Ok but seriously I don't REALLY know what makes a course a links course.. I've looked across the internet and have played courses described as "links" on here but still don't fully grasp what the defining characteristics of a links course are. I'm wondering because I would like to design one at some point.
What I've gathered is that they're by the ocean (Ok, non links courses can be by the ocean as well) They have pot bunkers They are usually played with high winds (So can other courses) They have undulating slopes (why can't other courses have that too?)
Is there some major difference about the routing or layout that I'm not getting?
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Post by wedgely on Dec 20, 2019 11:34:55 GMT -5
I've also seen folks say that a property needs to have no trees (or at least a very small amount) to be a true links course. The one common theme seems to be that everything is extremely open. Not a lot of lost balls unless they go into the water.
I doubt there is any sort of objective definition, you'll get different answers from person to person. Never seen anyone mention a specific type of hole layout or routing scheme that a links course must have, though you'll certainly have ones that mesh more with the more open, flowing landscapes.
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Post by b101 on Dec 20, 2019 11:50:18 GMT -5
To be honest, the ocean has nothing to do with it - see Lytham, nor do trees - see Formby, nor openness - see St George's or many of the Irish links. I think the original name came from the word 'hlinc' - old Scottish for bump/mound etc. The main characteristic is the undulating ground and therefore importance of the ground game. That's why a number of the American courses with 'Links' on the end come nowhere close, because there's zero need to bounce and run the ball onto greens. I think the way I'd best picture a links in my head is a course where, from 5-100 yards off the green, you'd consider a bump and run, pitch or even a putt. If your default thought from 100 yards and in is 'full lob wedge', odds are it's probably not a links or you're not playing it right wedgely is right that there's no specific type of hole layout or routing scheme though, although you will tend to see a lot of courses that are 'out and back links' - that is to say that you don't come back to the clubhouse after the ninth and once you're out, you're out for the 18. Often though, these courses involve a lot of subtle changes of hole direction (look up the Royal St George's routing - it's genius) to make you really play with all types of wind. Oh, and spend some time looking at St Andrews, of course.
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Post by lessthanbread on Dec 20, 2019 12:34:29 GMT -5
Great stuff both, thank you. I have to think actually making a course play like a links course in TGC is probably impossible after reading your responses. Like you said Ben, if in real life the point of a links course is to play the ground game but in TGC you have those goofy flop shots that can stick right by the hole and there really isn't a bump and run type shot available... can you really make a true links course in TGC? Edit: Thinking about it now, I don't know if I've ever played a golf video game where you really have to use the ground game in order to do well on links courses... I remember playing T Woods 12 and played St. Andrews like I would any other course and I shot my best rounds there... b101 How exactly do links courses in real life necessitate the ground game? What would happen if you used a full wedge from 100 yards out? Is it much tougher to stop the ball by the cup because of super firm greens? Will the incoming shot bounce at weird angles because of the undulations?
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Post by b101 on Dec 20, 2019 12:47:22 GMT -5
You definitely can, but it's tough. St Cyrus by PithyDoctorG is a great example of it (once you bump all terrain to very firm, due to that stupid Highlands bug). In essence, it's to do with the mounding on and around the greens. Think of a little hump just in front of a pin for the flop shot you're describing - if you try to fly the ball all the way there, it'll either: a) hit the upslope and roll back, b) hit the downslope and kick on, or c) hit the top (tiny margin for error) and MAYBE be ok. Oh, and you're doing this in +10mph winds - really hard to control. Now picture the same shot but with a 7 iron chip - it's far lower to the ground, therefore the wind doesn't affect it. Shorter swing, so easier to control and you can either: a) stun it into the side of the bank, so that it takes some momentum out, but due to the angle it hits, won't cause it to drop down the same side or b) bounce it in front with a really low lofted club so that it rolls up and over like a putt. Obviously, you can still play flop shots - I often do around my home course, which is a links - but it's never a case of 'this is my number, so I'll hit that club'. You're always thinking about how the wind will affect the ball, how the ball will react once it hits the ground and which option is best. Becoming a member of a links course has done wonders for my game, as you just have to be so much more imaginative and predict rollout as well as carry distance. Really hard to explain without you playing it yourself, but if you ever get a chance to play golf in the UK, head straight to some links courses - you will not forget it. Hope that helps a bit!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2019 15:56:19 GMT -5
eye uh stoopid 'murican, eye doughn't no wat linky corse iz.. Ok but seriously I don't REALLY know what makes a course a links course.. I've looked across the internet and have played courses described as "links" on here but still don't fully grasp what the defining characteristics of a links course are. I'm wondering because I would like to design one at some point. The definition that I always use for links is the land where golf was developed. This is the land that is between the sea and the arable farmland. At first in Scotland with the character of the land in that country, but also in various countries that have different soils and characteristics. So a links course is what it is because of the land - the soil and terrain on which it is build (the land between the sea/ocean and the arable farmland).
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Post by karma4u on Dec 20, 2019 16:15:14 GMT -5
From Golfweek.
Links History
In Scotland, where golf is believed to have originated in the 15th century, the first courses were developed on stretches of land known as links. Farmers deemed these coastal lands useless because of the sandy soil, so golf course designers began to make use of them. There are a number of true links courses still open for play in Scotland, including the course that has become known as the home of golf --St. Andrews. Ireland, Wales and England also have true links courses, but Scotland is believed to have the most.
Links Characteristics
A links course is along the sea, consists of sandy soil and has little vegetation other than tall sea grasses and gorse, a hearty low-growing evergreen plant. The natural terrain is used to develop the golf holes. Many of the bunkers were once natural windswept dunes. The layout of the holes is also part of a true links course, with the first nine going out to the farthest point from the clubhouse and the second nine bringing you back.
Traditional Links Course
St. Andrews, Royal Troon, and Royal Dornach are considered three of Scotland's most famous and most traditional links courses. In Ireland, there are also traditional links, including Waterville, Ballybunion and Lahinch. The United States also has several famous links courses. One of them is the highly ranked Pebble Beach. Sinnecock Hills in New York and Bandon Dunes in Oregon are also traditional links.
Modern Links Style
The look of links-style courses can vary greatly. Most are developed by designers to look like traditional links courses. There are no trees or very few, and the land has subtle rolling terrain. However, many links-style courses are not built along the coast.
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Post by paddyjk19 on Dec 21, 2019 8:09:25 GMT -5
eye uh stoopid 'murican, eye doughn't no wat linky corse iz.. Ok but seriously I don't REALLY know what makes a course a links course.. I've looked across the internet and have played courses described as "links" on here but still don't fully grasp what the defining characteristics of a links course are. I'm wondering because I would like to design one at some point. The definition that I always use for links is the land where golf was developed. This is the land that is between the sea and the arable farmland. At first in Scotland with the character of the land in that country, but also in various countries that have different soils and characteristics. So a links course is what it is because of the land - the soil and terrain on which it is build (the land between the sea/ocean and the arable farmland). This is the exact definition, it’s sand based land that cannot be used for farming so was typically used for leisure
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Post by linkslover on Dec 23, 2019 2:43:21 GMT -5
A big plus for links courses is they are super fast draining. A combination of the sandy soil and high coastal wind allows the course to drain far quicker than other courses.
As mentioned before tall rough (usually fescue), pot bunkers (including plenty in the fairway) and gorse feature heavily and trees generally do not. Most of all, there are bumps and mounds everywhere as well as dunes that border the holes are surround the course.
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