|
Post by Terry Grayson on Oct 15, 2019 9:51:16 GMT -5
Well said Jason and you sir are correct
|
|
|
Post by HeMan1202 on Oct 15, 2019 9:53:36 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by lessthanbread on Oct 15, 2019 9:54:47 GMT -5
It's like any group or team. There's definitely something to be said about putting a rookie in their place. I played college baseball and you just get ripped apart your freshman year but what some fail to see is that it's for your own good. It's a test to see if you can hack it and grow to roll with the big dogs. You have to get broken down to your foundation and built back up to really take your game to the next level. Those who can't take it will leave, and those who can will become beasts.
Andre played my latest course on his stream one night and laid into my bunker work and guess what, now my bunkers are going to be better than ever because of it. Had he not done that, I'd just keep right on making my crappy bunkers with no improvement.
Do I take pride in my designs? Absolutely. Does it suck to get negative feedback and hear harsh comments? You bet. But what are you gonna do? Let it beat you down, or are you going to rise above and make sure your next course is a polished gem? Best way to silence critics is to give them nothing to be critical about.
|
|
|
Post by CiB0RG on Oct 15, 2019 10:03:24 GMT -5
Shortly after I published my very first course (which was for a contest) it was reviewed on stream by Griff. I was proud of my course and thought I was the bee's knees for having published something I thought was so fun as my first course. As Griff played through it, I knew how he was and didn't expect him to be blowing sunshine up my arse... but I also didn't expect some of the things he thrashed me on.
I had repeated over and over massive downhill tee shots. So much so that as each new hole began he was swearing and after a certain point he was just laughing at me for it. When I first watched it I was upset. Wondering who this guy thinks he is that he would rip on a new designer like that. I understood what he was saying but the way he delivered it at the time seemed insulting.
I could have come to the forums and passively call him out for his delivery being rude but I didn't. In fact it hadn't even crossed my mind because I figured a post like that would burn a lot of bridges. I went back and watched his review again and decided that I needed to just take it with a grain of salt. I may have not liked how the review made me feel, but it sure as hell made me a better designer for listening to it and considering the feedback.
Later that day I wrote Griff a PM. I simply thanked him for taking the time to make a review of my course and said that I appreciated his feedback and I will definitely use it going forward.
The little shot I thought I took gave me motivation to want to improve on my next design and all designs from there on out. Looking back on it now I loved that review. He was right! Knowing what I know now I would have been laughing at it too. It seems silly now that I was upset at something like that. He didn't feel the need to repeatedly tell me my tee shots were getting old so it became jokey.
You want to know what else he made fun of me and others newbies in that contest for?... GIANT greens! On some of my holes I got a bit carried away with the scaling and he did poke fun at my huge greens. Since I knew I wasn't the only one in the contest roasted about that I had to just shake it off. I knew some of them were large and took it as something to keep an eye on next time. I took the criticism and jokes and moved on.
My point is that most of us have in a similar place. I do not think this thread was the right way to go about it. You can not control how someone may review your course but you CAN control how you choose to take it. Sometimes you have to show restraint in order to improve the outcome in the big picture.
|
|
|
Post by pablo on Oct 15, 2019 10:03:43 GMT -5
I just wanted to throw my 2 cents #BlamePablo
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2019 10:04:38 GMT -5
moneyman273 - you’re no more not an insider here as anyone else in this thread or community that tries to enjoy the game amongst friends & acquaintances. After all, we call you Jason, don’t we? 😉 I point that out because the usage of first names was once used against me in an argument on here as another example of the “insiders” club. Ironically, when I asked individual 1 what his first name was when trying to be welcoming, I was told that he doesn’t give that info out. 🧐 It’s totally fine to withhold that info, of course, but then you don’t get to use it as ammo for the insiders defense. I shall await to find out how I twisted those words...
|
|
mayday_golf83
TGCT Design Competition Directors
Posts: 2,279
TGCT Name: Jeremy Mayo
Tour: Elite
|
Post by mayday_golf83 on Oct 15, 2019 10:05:41 GMT -5
P.s. If you haven't actually been ripped on a review stream of a course you've built for a design contest - key word, "actually," which doesn't seem to be the case here at all, but I'm going to keep going anyway - then you've never lived. It's like to right of passage into the design-contest-community here, comes with the territory, and I think I speak for just about everyone who's been in a contest when I say that, cause we've all been there.
There's a predictable pattern: design an unpolished/sloppy/etc. course early on in your design "career," think it's awesome, get criticized, feel scorned/disrespected/etc., get mad and lash out to some extent, wait a few weeks, realize it was actually constructive, feel silly about getting upset, use the critical feedback to continually improve upon future designs. It's part of the process that 99% of us have gone through/continue to go through as we enjoy trying to get better at some silly little hobby we've all decided to take up, despite our wives wishes
I'll never forget the Taste whiteboard...what a time to live, that was.
Ah yes, the good old days of Taste ... we need some more brutal honesty around here 😉
|
|
reebdoog
TGCT Design Competition Directors
Posts: 2,742
TGCT Name: Brian Jeffords
Tour: CC-Pro
|
Post by reebdoog on Oct 15, 2019 10:10:35 GMT -5
Taste made me giggle like a little girl. Where you at man? Get back here and make fun of me!
|
|
|
Post by pablo on Oct 15, 2019 10:10:42 GMT -5
P.s. If you haven't actually been ripped on a review stream of a course you've built for a design contest - key word, "actually," which doesn't seem to be the case here at all, but I'm going to keep going anyway - then you've never lived. It's like to right of passage into the design-contest-community here, comes with the territory, and I think I speak for just about everyone who's been in a contest when I say that, cause we've all been there.
There's a predictable pattern: design an unpolished/sloppy/etc. course early on in your design "career," think it's awesome, get criticized, feel scorned/disrespected/etc., get mad and lash out to some extent, wait a few weeks, realize it was actually constructive, feel silly about getting upset, use the critical feedback to continually improve upon future designs. It's part of the process that 99% of us have gone through/continue to go through as we enjoy trying to get better at some silly little hobby we've all decided to take up, despite our wives wishes
I'll never forget the Taste whiteboard...what a time to live, that was.
Ah yes, the good old days of Taste ... we need some more brutal honesty around here 😉 Five or six holes of my course in one contest, don't remember which one, were played with a big fat "@!$# YOU" in the screen.... Lovely Edit I found it:
|
|
|
Post by rob4590 on Oct 15, 2019 10:10:54 GMT -5
P.s. If you haven't actually been ripped on a review stream of a course you've built for a design contest - key word, "actually," which doesn't seem to be the case here at all, but I'm going to keep going anyway - then you've never lived. It's like to right of passage into the design-contest-community here, comes with the territory, and I think I speak for just about everyone who's been in a contest when I say that, cause we've all been there.
There's a predictable pattern: design an unpolished/sloppy/etc. course early on in your design "career," think it's awesome, get criticized, feel scorned/disrespected/etc., get mad and lash out to some extent, wait a few weeks, realize it was actually constructive, feel silly about getting upset, use the critical feedback to continually improve upon future designs. It's part of the process that 99% of us have gone through/continue to go through as we enjoy trying to get better at some silly little hobby we've all decided to take up, despite our wives wishes
I'll never forget the Taste whiteboard...what a time to live, that was.
Ah yes, the good old days of Taste ... we need some more brutal honesty around here 😉 It's only brutal honesty when you are the one delivering it..............when you are on the receiving end, it's rudeness etc........................allegedly............. And it's usually the ones who claim their own posts are just brutally honest and not rude, who take the most offence to people responding in the same way......... Just saying....... (PS Just for clarification - this isn't aimed at you Jeremy)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2019 10:22:34 GMT -5
lessthanbread - I appreciate the sports analogy, but I genuinely don’t believe that the motivation for those jokes was rookie hazing. In fact, some of the biggest advocates for having an official rookie contest and fully supporting it are the veteran designers. We are very open to new people who want to create courses.
All jokes aside, one of the comments on here that brightened my day was to hear one of the longest TGCT players and veteran designers say that the design community is the strongest he’s ever seen it. That sure doesn’t sound like “insiders” are a huge problem.
Some people may not like me, but I believe I have played a mostly positive role in the building process, which I am very proud of. Those that TRULY know me, understand that building this community is something I care about.
|
|
|
Post by moneyman273 on Oct 15, 2019 10:25:41 GMT -5
moneyman273 - you’re no more not an insider here as anyone else in this thread or community that tries to enjoy the game amongst friends & acquaintances. After all, we call you Jason, don’t we? 😉 I point that out because the usage of first names was once used against me in an argument on here as another example of the “insiders” club. Ironically, when I asked individual 1 what his first name was when trying to be welcoming, I was told that he doesn’t give that info out. 🧐 It’s totally fine to withhold that info, of course, but then you don’t get to use it as ammo for the insiders defense. I shall await to find out how I twisted those words... Exactly. I've really enjoyed meeting a great amount of people here. Didn't mean the insider thing in any other way but to mention the comments that have been made here and in the past. My point was that I have, and continue to always go on my own path in life. With that mindset, I enjoy listening and responding to both sides/perspectives and I'm not afraid to support the "opposing" or "unpopular" side, if I believe in it. Have a great day ERIC
|
|
mayday_golf83
TGCT Design Competition Directors
Posts: 2,279
TGCT Name: Jeremy Mayo
Tour: Elite
|
Post by mayday_golf83 on Oct 15, 2019 10:30:38 GMT -5
In seriousness though, I too was a recipient of some of Griff’s tough love in my early designs. I can remember him decimating the bunker work on Noelle Valley, front pin placements with long iron shots (even though the greens were built to receive run-up shots) and an overall “safeness” at McNaughty. It gnawed at me at the time (I even took a few month hiatus from the game, not because I was mad, but because I was struggling to put it all together to bring my courses to the next level).
But, instead of ripping Griff or the judges, I asked questions. Sometimes things said off the cuff can be taken the wrong way, but there’s often a kernel of truth behind it. By asking questions and getting a better understanding of their rationale, I was able to reflect and see their point. Ultimately, like others have said, it made me a better designer in the long run. So much so, that when I was fortunate enough to win the WCoD, the one of the first things I did was message Griff on Facebook and thanked him for all that feedback from way back when. I definitely wouldn’t have won without it.
Now, anyone who’s ever entered a contest has had their feelings hurt. I’ve been there several times. I sucks, and I get it. When you pour two-plus months of hard work into something only to watch it get picked apart, that’s inevitable, even if the critique is well-intended. Believe me, all the feedback I provide in this contest will be made with the intent to help make the contestants better designers. Will you like everything I say? Probably not. But I’m also going to try to provide the rationale behind the logic, what could have been done differently and why the recommended tweaks made each hole better. I will also say that I played the first 13 courses in the contest with little to no knowledge of who designed what, so I can say unequivocally, that I was focused on the COURSE and not the designer.
|
|
mayday_golf83
TGCT Design Competition Directors
Posts: 2,279
TGCT Name: Jeremy Mayo
Tour: Elite
|
Post by mayday_golf83 on Oct 15, 2019 10:34:11 GMT -5
Ah yes, the good old days of Taste ... we need some more brutal honesty around here 😉 It's only brutal honesty when you are the one delivering it..............when you are on the receiving end, it's rudeness etc........................allegedly............. And it's usually the ones who claim their own posts are just brutally honest and not rude, who take the most offence to people responding in the same way......... Just saying....... (PS Just for clarification - this isn't aimed at you Jeremy) No worries, “brutal honesty” was a callback to Taste’s Invitca reviews, of which Pablo has posted a shining example.
|
|
reebdoog
TGCT Design Competition Directors
Posts: 2,742
TGCT Name: Brian Jeffords
Tour: CC-Pro
|
Post by reebdoog on Oct 15, 2019 10:40:41 GMT -5
I still use the headset I “won” from him in that fiasco
|
|