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Post by alexandre on Sept 18, 2019 7:44:26 GMT -5
PS4 is infinitely easier than PC. I played both of them. On PS4, you can achieve P / P more often than PC. I do not know the reason. I enjoyed seeing everything mixed in the table (PS4-PC-Xbox). Increases the challenge. Note: Using the same Ps4 controller on PC does not work the same as on PS4. It is very inconsistent. In Ps4, much is much easier ...
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Post by ezzinomilonga on Sept 18, 2019 8:14:21 GMT -5
I’ve just realised I’m a flicker on Xbox, there I’ve said it. I have a very light touch on the thumb-stick and sometimes my thumb slips off the top before I complete my full swing. I don’t shoot stupid low scores every week I’m not on one of the pro tours unless you count CC-C as one. I also play this game as much as anyone played 20 rounds his week already in various societies and have been playing TGC since the first game. How I see the game from an Xbox perspective is it’s more of a tempo simulator as long as you hit perfect/perfect you won’t stray very far from the middle of the fairway even if your slightly outside the blue area, in fact I’ve had swings that show the line shoot of at 45 deg from just past the centre point and just because I’ve hit P/P the ball hasn’t moved that far from centre. My trouble with Master Clubs is usually overshooting my intended landing area with the irons by hitting either P/F or P/S which leave me with a long putt or a chip from the back of the green. I’m not a great putter either. I have never been pulled by the API just lucky I guess. What do I do now go to flickers anonymous. I don't know if you are a flicker or not, i could say that if you see that with your swing your ball goes actually always straight..even when the line you see in the blue cone should suggest a totally different trajectory.. yes you are But..to have just a short swing is not means automatically that you are a flicker, if i understand well how it works this thing. But I'm not totally sure, actually. Anyway..i think we should be more relaxed now, about this situation. I mean..we talked about it..we debated..we fought..we proposed things..and admins tried to do something. But the issue in the fair play policy we have..i mean the new one..is that actually is punished (in the best case) only who do this at the best levels. But I'm absolutely sure that there are flickers in every category, simply not strong enough to reach the best categories even playing with a swing always straight. I'm sure they are a lot. But i also think that, now that the season is started, if is not possible to recognize and to punish ALL the flickers in some way..there is simply very little to do (and to still talk) about it. All these debates..are useless now. And we must deal with the simple truth that we'll have just another season of fake results, standings, champions, etc...cause the best flickers knows how to avoid to be pulled by the API. Is a simple truth. All this considered, in my opinion, or is possible to recognize a flicker checking the game charts, then we could..and we SHOULD..to create ASAP a "commission" to check every week a certain number of random players, (plus the top 25) in every flight, to remove them manually...or we can just continue to chat..and chat..and chat..for another year. Changing absolutely nothing. Or, at least, this is what i think.
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Post by SmilingGoats on Sept 18, 2019 8:28:22 GMT -5
But i also think that, now that the season is started, if is not possible to recognize and to punish ALL the flickers in some way..there is simply very little to do (and to still talk) about it. All these debates..are useless now. And we must deal with the simple truth that we'll have just another season of fake results, standings, champions, etc...cause the best flickers knows how to avoid to be pulled by the API. Is a simple truth. You can't "fool" the API. It's math. You either pass or you don't pass. There are multiple checks in place and if you fail just one of them your scores aren't accepted. If a result is on our leaderboard, it's because the data for those rounds met the minimum standard we've set for Fair Play. That should be good enough for everyone. One could debate where we set that floor, but set it we have and no one is getting around it.
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Post by flyingj75 on Sept 18, 2019 8:37:11 GMT -5
I’ve just realised I’m a flicker on Xbox, there I’ve said it. I have a very light touch on the thumb-stick and sometimes my thumb slips off the top before I complete my full swing. I don’t shoot stupid low scores every week I’m not on one of the pro tours unless you count CC-C as one. I also play this game as much as anyone played 20 rounds his week already in various societies and have been playing TGC since the first game. How I see the game from an Xbox perspective is it’s more of a tempo simulator as long as you hit perfect/perfect you won’t stray very far from the middle of the fairway even if your slightly outside the blue area, in fact I’ve had swings that show the line shoot of at 45 deg from just past the centre point and just because I’ve hit P/P the ball hasn’t moved that far from centre. My trouble with Master Clubs is usually overshooting my intended landing area with the irons by hitting either P/F or P/S which leave me with a long putt or a chip from the back of the green. I’m not a great putter either. I have never been pulled by the API just lucky I guess. What do I do now go to flickers anonymous. First off Les, let me commend you. You were honestly interested in what the fuss was all about, you got into conversation, you listened, and you came to a conclusion. Let me reiterate, YOU ARE NOT THE PROBLEM. What would be a problem is if you spent the next several weeks figuring out how best to exploit what you have come to realize. Some have, and they have found the best combination flick/shortswing to where they pretty much know exactly where the ball is gonna land with a swing feedback that looks like a deformed pretzel. Some in fact that use this "method" have become the absolute best in the game. The defense is laughable. There is no equating the video game with real life, which I find silly because that is what the game and TGCTours is really all about. Just like IRL, tempo is very important, but as those that play the game know, you have to be able to hit the damn thing reasonably straight. Anywho, play the game, enjoy the game, get better, maybe try to finish the swing . FYI, yes, shortswingers are getting pulled, problem is, the very best have figured out either by plan or luck, that if their shortswing is particularly wonky, like the previously mentioned pretzel on a 45 degree angle, low and behold they don't get flagged. I have said it before, I'll say it again, the current #1 player in world has a total crap swing that is so shitty that it doesn't get flagged by the API, and yet has almost perfect results. Hopefully the next rendition of the game changes that. Until then, swing full, play the game with integrity, and the results are the results. You don't sound like the type of guy that would find any joy in exploiting the game to the detriment of the competition just to see your name on the top, I hate those guys, you I'm starting to like.
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Post by flyingj75 on Sept 18, 2019 8:49:22 GMT -5
"You can't "fool" the API. It's math. You either pass or you don't pass. There are multiple checks in place and if you fail just one of them your scores aren't accepted."
Yes you can. Anytime there is an element of variable control involved (with this example it happens to be a human), you can literally sandbag the results. It is happening before your very eyes. All one has to do is find the variation or the % of variation that is deemed acceptable. This is exactly what is taking place. I love you guys but jeez, stop denying there is a problem.
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Post by SmilingGoats on Sept 18, 2019 8:51:25 GMT -5
What problem am I denying?
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Post by flyingj75 on Sept 18, 2019 8:54:44 GMT -5
That passing the API isn't the end all. I mean it is, as to the results of the tourney, and it may be as far as TGCTours is concerned, but not with the players.
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Flicking
Sept 18, 2019 8:55:13 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by ezzinomilonga on Sept 18, 2019 8:55:13 GMT -5
But i also think that, now that the season is started, if is not possible to recognize and to punish ALL the flickers in some way..there is simply very little to do (and to still talk) about it. All these debates..are useless now. And we must deal with the simple truth that we'll have just another season of fake results, standings, champions, etc...cause the best flickers knows how to avoid to be pulled by the API. Is a simple truth. You can't "fool" the API. It's math. You either pass or you don't pass. There are multiple checks in place and if you fail just one of them your scores aren't accepted. If a result is on our leaderboard, it's because the data for those rounds met the minimum standard we've set for Fair Play. That should be good enough for everyone. One could debate where we set that floor, but set it we have and no one is getting around it. Uh..Understood.. for absurd, to know this it sounds even worst to me, cause this means that actually we have simply no weapons to fight properly this thing. This also means that there is no way to read in some way something useful by the charts, isn't? (thank you, anyway. I mean..for the explanation..for everything you do for us )
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Post by SmilingGoats on Sept 18, 2019 8:56:32 GMT -5
That passing the API isn't the end all. I mean it is, as to the results of the tourney, and it may be as far as TGCTours is concerned, but not with the players. I think I said that. My point was you can't "fool" a pass/fail system. You can pass it by means that aren't acceptable to some...you can debate where the pass/fail marker is set. But you can't "fool" it, as such.
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Post by ezzinomilonga on Sept 18, 2019 9:10:59 GMT -5
I’ve just realised I’m a flicker on Xbox, there I’ve said it. I have a very light touch on the thumb-stick and sometimes my thumb slips off the top before I complete my full swing. I don’t shoot stupid low scores every week I’m not on one of the pro tours unless you count CC-C as one. I also play this game as much as anyone played 20 rounds his week already in various societies and have been playing TGC since the first game. How I see the game from an Xbox perspective is it’s more of a tempo simulator as long as you hit perfect/perfect you won’t stray very far from the middle of the fairway even if your slightly outside the blue area, in fact I’ve had swings that show the line shoot of at 45 deg from just past the centre point and just because I’ve hit P/P the ball hasn’t moved that far from centre. My trouble with Master Clubs is usually overshooting my intended landing area with the irons by hitting either P/F or P/S which leave me with a long putt or a chip from the back of the green. I’m not a great putter either. I have never been pulled by the API just lucky I guess. What do I do now go to flickers anonymous. First off Les, let me commend you. You were honestly interested in what the fuss was all about, you got into conversation, you listened, and you came to a conclusion. Let me reiterate, YOU ARE NOT THE PROBLEM. What would be a problem is if you spent the next several weeks figuring out how best to exploit what you have come to realize. Some have, and they have found the best combination flick/shortswing to where they pretty much know exactly where the ball is gonna land with a swing feedback that looks like a deformed pretzel. Some in fact that use this "method" have become the absolute best in the game. The defense is laughable. There is no equating the video game with real life, which I find silly because that is what the game and TGCTours is really all about. Just like IRL, tempo is very important, but as those that play the game know, you have to be able to hit the damn thing reasonably straight. Anywho, play the game, enjoy the game, get better, maybe try to finish the swing . FYI, yes, shortswingers are getting pulled, problem is, the very best have figured out either by plan or luck, that if their shortswing is particularly wonky, like the previously mentioned pretzel on a 45 degree angle, low and behold they don't get flagged. I have said it before, I'll say it again, the current #1 player in world has a total crap swing that is so shitty that it doesn't get flagged by the API, and yet has almost perfect results. Hopefully the next rendition of the game changes that. Until then, swing full, play the game with integrity, and the results are the results. You don't sound like the type of guy that would find any joy in exploiting the game to the detriment of the competition just to see your name on the top, I hate those guys, you I'm starting to like. You couldn't explain the whole thing better, mate. Sorry if I ask this, but I really need to have a doubt solved..cause maybe..and probably, my idea is totally stupid but..if the API detects and punishes those charts with too little variation or % of variation..checking "manually" the chart of a flicker, don't should be very clear that there is always an absolutely exaggerate variation? If this thought is not a total idiocy, doing this check there is not the chance to understand who are the flickers? (I don't know if my explanation makes some sense..i hope so. I have also to admit that I barely understand how API it works, so is easy that I'm totally wrong. But if this could be a chance..a serious chance to catch'em all..i would be happy to spend hours..days..doing this kind of control. Every week. It could ever works?)
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Post by cseanny on Sept 18, 2019 9:35:04 GMT -5
Here is a message from September 2018 Q-School, that a guy in my CC received:
This old CC member literally has many video's, most Live, where he is not hitting the ball anywhere near dead straight, AND, there is deviation in the ball flight. Do we see the problem here? The dude is 100% legit, however, his API is coming back as if he hit's the ball straighter than a damn macro. It's the limitations of the API. Having said that, TGCTs has NO CHOICE but to go off what the API gives them and SHOULD ENFORCE accordingly. So any players falling into DQ territory has to either A) Change their swing, or B) Sit out TGCTs.
For anyone passing API, regardless how they swing, again, that should be the end of the story. I'll never consider those people "gaming" the system, and certainly not cheaters.
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Post by fadgewacker on Sept 18, 2019 9:42:05 GMT -5
First off Les, let me commend you. You were honestly interested in what the fuss was all about, you got into conversation, you listened, and you came to a conclusion. Let me reiterate, YOU ARE NOT THE PROBLEM. What would be a problem is if you spent the next several weeks figuring out how best to exploit what you have come to realize. Some have, and they have found the best combination flick/shortswing to where they pretty much know exactly where the ball is gonna land with a swing feedback that looks like a deformed pretzel. Some in fact that use this "method" have become the absolute best in the game. The defense is laughable. There is no equating the video game with real life, which I find silly because that is what the game and TGCTours is really all about. Just like IRL, tempo is very important, but as those that play the game know, you have to be able to hit the damn thing reasonably straight. Anywho, play the game, enjoy the game, get better, maybe try to finish the swing . FYI, yes, shortswingers are getting pulled, problem is, the very best have figured out either by plan or luck, that if their shortswing is particularly wonky, like the previously mentioned pretzel on a 45 degree angle, low and behold they don't get flagged. I have said it before, I'll say it again, the current #1 player in world has a total crap swing that is so shitty that it doesn't get flagged by the API, and yet has almost perfect results. Hopefully the next rendition of the game changes that. Until then, swing full, play the game with integrity, and the results are the results. You don't sound like the type of guy that would find any joy in exploiting the game to the detriment of the competition just to see your name on the top, I hate those guys, you I'm starting to like. You couldn't explain the whole thing better, mate. Sorry if I ask this, but I really need to have a doubt solved..cause maybe..and probably, my idea is totally stupid but..if the API detects and punishes those charts with too little variation or % of variation..checking "manually" the chart of a flicker, don't should be very clear that there is always an absolutely exaggerate variation? If this thought is not a total idiocy, doing this check there is not the chance to understand who are the flickers? (I don't know if my explanation makes some sense..i hope so. I have also to admit that I barely understand how API it works, so is easy that I'm totally wrong. But if this could be a chance..a serious chance to catch'em all..i would be happy to spend hours..days..doing this kind of control. Every week. It could ever works?) It makes sense, but there isn't an easy way to determine who are the flickers (short swingers ). The charts may well show that somebody hasn't hit a shot left of centre all season (is that even possible??), but as long as the variation on those shots is of a spread that's acceptable to the API, then it's a pass, due to the unexpected nature of the variation. Someone could be playing for a massive one way miss, taking the entire left side of the course out of play... maybe. Sadly, unless the results reported to the API are invariable enough to set off the alarms, it is what it is. Wonky short swing guys get away with max lofting with minimal in game deviation. What is at this moment in time, inconclusive, is if the variability reported to the API, is actually betrayed in game... Not sure we'll ever know that. Here's hoping for a fix for the biggest crutch going, for the next installment. Hopefully it's coming.... Heaven knows, they've had enough evidence to review over at HB.
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Post by GW_Hope on Sept 18, 2019 10:07:25 GMT -5
All this discussion should be on the HB forum. Not much Can change otherwise.
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Post by xEB50x on Sept 18, 2019 10:46:23 GMT -5
I’ve just realised I’m a flicker on Xbox, there I’ve said it. I have a very light touch on the thumb-stick and sometimes my thumb slips off the top before I complete my full swing. I don’t shoot stupid low scores every week I’m not on one of the pro tours unless you count CC-C as one. I also play this game as much as anyone played 20 rounds his week already in various societies and have been playing TGC since the first game. How I see the game from an Xbox perspective is it’s more of a tempo simulator as long as you hit perfect/perfect you won’t stray very far from the middle of the fairway even if your slightly outside the blue area, in fact I’ve had swings that show the line shoot of at 45 deg from just past the centre point and just because I’ve hit P/P the ball hasn’t moved that far from centre. My trouble with Master Clubs is usually overshooting my intended landing area with the irons by hitting either P/F or P/S which leave me with a long putt or a chip from the back of the green. I’m not a great putter either. I have never been pulled by the API just lucky I guess. What do I do now go to flickers anonymous. Les I think we all have a bit of a flick, in that at the end of our downswing are thumb will slip off the stick. The issue is if the line reaches the top. Flicking as I understand it is the swing line only travels about 75% of the way to the top and stops. My swing feels like a flick in some regards, but I get a full line 95% of the time, and when I don't, it's because my thumb slips off the stick a bit early (xbox as well)
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Post by mrohde4 on Sept 18, 2019 10:56:13 GMT -5
Here is a message from September 2018 Q-School, that a guy in my CC received: This old CC member literally has many video's, most Live, where he is not hitting the ball anywhere near dead straight, AND, there is deviation in the ball flight. Do we see the problem here? The dude is 100% legit, however, his API is coming back as if he hit's the ball straighter than a damn macro. It's the limitations of the API. Having said that, TGCTs has NO CHOICE but to go off what the API gives them and SHOULD ENFORCE accordingly. So any players falling into DQ territory has to either A) Change their swing, or B) Sit out TGCTs. For anyone passing API, regardless how they swing, again, that should be the end of the story. I'll never consider those people "gaming" the system, and certainly not cheaters. Or "C) get a new controller." His controller probably had a dead spot. A common reason for failing API. You're right it's a problem that some users fail API due to other reasons than shortswinging. TGCT only receives numbers. Nobody can see others in-game feedback unless it's voluntarily shared. But do you see the problem with short-swinging? It's using a software design flaw that consistently increases chances of failing API (see last week) to gain a competitive advantage. And TGCT has many choices. They could require mandatory video uploads. Say when a player shoots no worse than -14 over four rounds on a 7400+ course with 100% FIR/GIR and a longest putt of 10 ft. They can do whatever they want. It's their league.
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