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Post by theclv24 on Aug 25, 2019 21:20:27 GMT -5
I played the Spring Valley course this week, I believe the name is "svcc_draft 02". Here is the website for the course with some info: www.springvalleyccgolf.com/course/Specifically this part: "Originally constructed in the 1920’s and open for play in 1926, Spring Valley CC (originally named “Our Country Club”) is one of the oldest in Southeast Wisconsin. Located just south of Salem WI and just north of Antioch, IL on route 83 it is a local favorite that, weather permitting, provides year round golf to the community. Though not Long at 6354 yards by modern standards, this par 70 course, thanks to the brilliant design of renowned architects, Langford and Moreau, offers a challenge to golfers of all skill levels. Purposely designed so the five par 3’s of various lengths, the three par 5’s, the long par 4’s and the drivable par 4 14th hole force even the single digit handicapper to use every club in the bag. The course architects, Langford and Moreau, built Spring Valley CC just before building what is believed to be their crowning achievement, Lawsonia CC, near Green Lake WI. Anyone who has played Lawsonia, ranked in the Top 100 public courses in the U.S. can see the similarities. Langford and Moreau builders of over 200 courses, mostly throughout the Midwest, believed that par should be protected near the green. Toward that end, the fairways are generous, the greens are multilayered and guarded by steep grass faced bunkers. Though the original plan called for 65 sand bunkers, the course’s first owner chose to leave them grass filled which has been honored to this day by the family that has owned the course since 1959." I played the course today, but if the pair of satellite maps I found of this course are correct, the course is definitely not a RCR at all. It offers the same routing of the real course and the correct order of the hole but, no counting the fact that is a par 69, while IRL is a par 70 (hole 2 should be a par 5) but it could be simply a publishing issue, the real course seems to have actually no bunkers at all and the fairways are way tighter than in game. Also the greens looks completely different. Furthermore there is not a tree, but I suppose this is just cause the course seems to be a beta. My best guest is there appears to be a mix of restoration and "what if" going on here. Hickory Ghost aka TaS is a bit of a historian (he's the one doing the Lido recreation that was featured on the Golf Channel), so it wouldn't surprise me. It appears 65 bunkers were originally slated for the design, but during construction the owners decided not to fill them in to save some money. I'm guessing the bunkers in this version are a representation of what the course would look like with the bunkers filled in. It's likely also meant to look like the course would have in 1926 before trees overtook the course, like so many others.
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Post by ezzinomilonga on Aug 25, 2019 22:45:56 GMT -5
I played the course today, but if the pair of satellite maps I found of this course are correct, the course is definitely not a RCR at all. It offers the same routing of the real course and the correct order of the hole but, no counting the fact that is a par 69, while IRL is a par 70 (hole 2 should be a par 5) but it could be simply a publishing issue, the real course seems to have actually no bunkers at all and the fairways are way tighter than in game. Also the greens looks completely different. Furthermore there is not a tree, but I suppose this is just cause the course seems to be a beta. My best guest is there appears to be a mix of restoration and "what if" going on here. Hickory Ghost aka TaS is a bit of a historian (he's the one doing the Lido recreation that was featured on the Golf Channel), so it wouldn't surprise me. It appears 65 bunkers were originally slated for the design, but during construction the owners decided not to fill them in to save some money. I'm guessing the bunkers in this version are a representation of what the course would look like with the bunkers filled in. It's likely also meant to look like the course would have in 1926 before trees overtook the course, like so many others. Wow..this sounds really interesting. It would be great to know if your thought is correct. So many things to know, about actually every course..i'll try to search something. Now I'm curious. Thank you for the explanation. As usual.
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Post by itsmb8 on Aug 26, 2019 0:28:21 GMT -5
I played the Spring Valley course this week, I believe the name is "svcc_draft 02". Here is the website for the course with some info: www.springvalleyccgolf.com/course/Specifically this part: "Originally constructed in the 1920’s and open for play in 1926, Spring Valley CC (originally named “Our Country Club”) is one of the oldest in Southeast Wisconsin. Located just south of Salem WI and just north of Antioch, IL on route 83 it is a local favorite that, weather permitting, provides year round golf to the community. Though not Long at 6354 yards by modern standards, this par 70 course, thanks to the brilliant design of renowned architects, Langford and Moreau, offers a challenge to golfers of all skill levels. Purposely designed so the five par 3’s of various lengths, the three par 5’s, the long par 4’s and the drivable par 4 14th hole force even the single digit handicapper to use every club in the bag. The course architects, Langford and Moreau, built Spring Valley CC just before building what is believed to be their crowning achievement, Lawsonia CC, near Green Lake WI. Anyone who has played Lawsonia, ranked in the Top 100 public courses in the U.S. can see the similarities. Langford and Moreau builders of over 200 courses, mostly throughout the Midwest, believed that par should be protected near the green. Toward that end, the fairways are generous, the greens are multilayered and guarded by steep grass faced bunkers. Though the original plan called for 65 sand bunkers, the course’s first owner chose to leave them grass filled which has been honored to this day by the family that has owned the course since 1959." I swear if we bring this course to TGCTours.... I played here plenty in high school, hated every second of it. And not in a good way, but just that IMO, the course isnt very good...
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Post by SkyBlueBen on Aug 26, 2019 2:34:37 GMT -5
Bank Holiday Monday in the UK Ezzino, no Tour rounds, so time to work through your list. A brief look I can see I’ve picked up many but I can also see I few I’ve missed! Having a go around the Lidar Colonial Country Club first though, been looking forward to that one.
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Post by theclv24 on Aug 26, 2019 8:48:07 GMT -5
I played the Spring Valley course this week, I believe the name is "svcc_draft 02". Here is the website for the course with some info: www.springvalleyccgolf.com/course/Specifically this part: "Originally constructed in the 1920’s and open for play in 1926, Spring Valley CC (originally named “Our Country Club”) is one of the oldest in Southeast Wisconsin. Located just south of Salem WI and just north of Antioch, IL on route 83 it is a local favorite that, weather permitting, provides year round golf to the community. Though not Long at 6354 yards by modern standards, this par 70 course, thanks to the brilliant design of renowned architects, Langford and Moreau, offers a challenge to golfers of all skill levels. Purposely designed so the five par 3’s of various lengths, the three par 5’s, the long par 4’s and the drivable par 4 14th hole force even the single digit handicapper to use every club in the bag. The course architects, Langford and Moreau, built Spring Valley CC just before building what is believed to be their crowning achievement, Lawsonia CC, near Green Lake WI. Anyone who has played Lawsonia, ranked in the Top 100 public courses in the U.S. can see the similarities. Langford and Moreau builders of over 200 courses, mostly throughout the Midwest, believed that par should be protected near the green. Toward that end, the fairways are generous, the greens are multilayered and guarded by steep grass faced bunkers. Though the original plan called for 65 sand bunkers, the course’s first owner chose to leave them grass filled which has been honored to this day by the family that has owned the course since 1959." I swear if we bring this course to TGCTours.... I played here plenty in high school, hated every second of it. And not in a good way, but just that IMO, the course isnt very good... Noted. I have not experienced it and have no horse in the race, I'm only slightly familiar with it because Langford and Moreau are hot right now with the resurgence of Lawsonia, and because it was recommended in the Fried Egg bang for your buck Wisconsin edition: thefriedegg.com/affordable-golf-courses-wisconsin/"The architecture pair of William Langford and Theodore Moreau is perhaps the most underappreciated of Golden Age architects. Their bold contouring, inspired by Seth Raynor’s work at Chicago Golf and Shoreacres, became misunderstood during the dark era, leaving few untouched designs. Spring Valley is just that, a pure Langford & Moreau experience that has all the makings of a great course despite overgrown trees, greens and fairways. If you can see past its scruffy appearance, it’s a great experience." As we've been discussing though, the svcc beta seems like it shares little in common with the current day Spring Valley other than a name and a routing. It's too short and wide open for TGC Tours anyways, I would think, so it's more of a casual round with some challenging greens and bold contours.
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Post by ezzinomilonga on Aug 26, 2019 9:22:09 GMT -5
Bank Holiday Monday in the UK Ezzino, no Tour rounds, so time to work through your list. A brief look I can see I’ve picked up many but I can also see I few I’ve missed! Having a go around the Lidar Colonial Country Club first though, been looking forward to that one. I'm still working on it and is something I'm really enjoying. The courses to check are still a pair of hundreds, at least. I'm pretty sure a good number of the courses listed, in the end, will results no RCR at all, but the best thing is that I found already some real hidden gem. In these days I'm checking the works of two guys, one is doing courses from Norway, one from France (or ex French colonies). Lidar courses, pretty interesting. Yesterday I played also the Green Eagle Nord Course in germany, a course used in the European Tour, a pretty good work. And I'm sure there are still a lot of courses to discover and..well..is really exciting Let me know if you find some error, some missing course or something that can be improved. I'll be happy to fix (or to implement) everything.
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Post by ezzinomilonga on Aug 26, 2019 11:40:43 GMT -5
SkyBlueBen if i can give you a little advice, try the Lidar version of Liberty National. Quite a good work and i can't see him publicized anywhere. Is the "standard" Routing of the Course, not the one used For the 2017 President's Cup. Then we have a really interesting Tamarack (from the same designer who published the NGLA, both Lidar works) and also a really good San Francisco Golf Club. But, maybe, the work most undervalued and underplayed, talking about ALL the RCRs we have in this game, after hundreds of courses checked, for me is still the Winged Foot West created by Josh Nezat. For me is absolutely unbelievable that the Winged Foot West with more plays we have, is a version actually absolutely fictional, while this true gem of accuracy and details is still not even handicapped. Considering is not a Lidar work, is almost unbelievable how good and..well, actually perfect it is. And to be fully honest, that course is one of the main reasons behind my decision to start this list, a month ago, hoping it can help in some way to have the best works in the game recognized (and played) in some way.
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Post by SkyBlueBen on Aug 26, 2019 12:24:37 GMT -5
SkyBlueBen if i can give you a little advice, try the Lidar version of Liberty National. Quite a good work and i can't see him publicized anywhere. Is the "standard" Routing of the Course, not the one used For the 2017 President's Cup. Then we have a really interesting Tamarack (from the same designer who published the NGLA, both Lidar works) and also a really good San Francisco Golf Club. But, maybe, the work most undervalued and underplayed, talking about ALL the RCRs we have in this game, after hundreds of courses checked, for me is still the Winged Foot West created by Josh Nezat. For me is absolutely unbelievable that the Winged Foot West with more plays we have, is a version actually absolutely fictional, while this true gem of accuracy and details is still not even handicapped. Considering is not a Lidar work, is almost unbelievable how good and..well, actually perfect it is. And to be fully honest, that course is one of the main reasons behind my decision to start this list, a month ago, hoping it can help in some way to have the best works in the game recognized (and played) in some way. Played San Francisco this afternoon and it was excellent. Will try Liberty National (test) this evening. Tamarack and the rest of that designer's lidar catalogue bookmarked.
Winged Foot West....found one with 114 plays, not sure I've picked up the right one but will have a look at it.
Thanks you for the heads up Ezzino.
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Post by ezzinomilonga on Aug 26, 2019 12:51:41 GMT -5
SkyBlueBen if i can give you a little advice, try the Lidar version of Liberty National. Quite a good work and i can't see him publicized anywhere. Is the "standard" Routing of the Course, not the one used For the 2017 President's Cup. Then we have a really interesting Tamarack (from the same designer who published the NGLA, both Lidar works) and also a really good San Francisco Golf Club. But, maybe, the work most undervalued and underplayed, talking about ALL the RCRs we have in this game, after hundreds of courses checked, for me is still the Winged Foot West created by Josh Nezat. For me is absolutely unbelievable that the Winged Foot West with more plays we have, is a version actually absolutely fictional, while this true gem of accuracy and details is still not even handicapped. Considering is not a Lidar work, is almost unbelievable how good and..well, actually perfect it is. And to be fully honest, that course is one of the main reasons behind my decision to start this list, a month ago, hoping it can help in some way to have the best works in the game recognized (and played) in some way. Played San Francisco this afternoon and it was excellent. Will try Liberty National (test) this evening. Tamarack and the rest of that designer's lidar catalogue bookmarked.
Winged Foot West....found one with 114 plays, not sure I've picked up the right one but will have a look at it.
Thanks you for the heads up Ezzino.
You can recognize the right one cause the author created also Olympia Fields. Another fantastic work, but at least it is well recognized cause, the last time I checked it, it had 2000 plays or something like this. And yes..that Winged Foot has more or less 100 plays. THIS is the absolute scandal, for me Just to say, Josh in the course designed also ALL the holes of the East course. Looking it from the map and comparing it with the satellite view, it don't seems a recreation, but a photography Anyway, is a true pleasure for me if I can help to find out good real courses. Just some minute ago I checked (both for the list and my ranger's duty) the Ross Bridge course at RTJ Trail. From the same designer of the Copperhead. Another great course, made for master clubs, with some interesting long par 4 and par 3, water in play on 10 holes, some huge elevation change and fantastic greens. A good one
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Post by SkyBlueBen on Aug 26, 2019 14:16:00 GMT -5
Well ezzinomilonga I just played Winged Foot West and if I played the right one it looked great and I found it a pretty stiff challenge. Certainly deserves more plays (The one I played showed "TigerWoods" as the designer so still not sure if I've played the right one! lol)
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Post by ezzinomilonga on Aug 26, 2019 14:55:53 GMT -5
Well ezzinomilonga I just played Winged Foot West and if I played the right one it looked great and I found it a pretty stiff challenge. Certainly deserves more plays (The one I played showed "TigerWoods" as the designer so still not sure if I've played the right one! lol) Is the right course and the right guy Happy if you liked it. I love it, personally. Is tough but fair.
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Post by itsmb8 on Aug 26, 2019 19:46:59 GMT -5
I swear if we bring this course to TGCTours.... I played here plenty in high school, hated every second of it. And not in a good way, but just that IMO, the course isnt very good... Noted. I have not experienced it and have no horse in the race, I'm only slightly familiar with it because Langford and Moreau are hot right now with the resurgence of Lawsonia, and because it was recommended in the Fried Egg bang for your buck Wisconsin edition: thefriedegg.com/affordable-golf-courses-wisconsin/"The architecture pair of William Langford and Theodore Moreau is perhaps the most underappreciated of Golden Age architects. Their bold contouring, inspired by Seth Raynor’s work at Chicago Golf and Shoreacres, became misunderstood during the dark era, leaving few untouched designs. Spring Valley is just that, a pure Langford & Moreau experience that has all the makings of a great course despite overgrown trees, greens and fairways. If you can see past its scruffy appearance, it’s a great experience." As we've been discussing though, the svcc beta seems like it shares little in common with the current day Spring Valley other than a name and a routing. It's too short and wide open for TGC Tours anyways, I would think, so it's more of a casual round with some challenging greens and bold contours. I mean, the course could be fun if you made it look more visually appealing in-game and maybe added some sand bunkers instead of grass bunkers... But in real life the course has become just grass with 18 flags scattered about. You can barely tell the fairways apart from the rough there.
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Post by LKeet6 on Aug 27, 2019 5:59:18 GMT -5
SkyBlueBen if i can give you a little advice, try the Lidar version of Liberty National. Quite a good work and i can't see him publicized anywhere. Is the "standard" Routing of the Course, not the one used For the 2017 President's Cup. Then we have a really interesting Tamarack (from the same designer who published the NGLA, both Lidar works) and also a really good San Francisco Golf Club. But, maybe, the work most undervalued and underplayed, talking about ALL the RCRs we have in this game, after hundreds of courses checked, for me is still the Winged Foot West created by Josh Nezat. For me is absolutely unbelievable that the Winged Foot West with more plays we have, is a version actually absolutely fictional, while this true gem of accuracy and details is still not even handicapped. Considering is not a Lidar work, is almost unbelievable how good and..well, actually perfect it is. And to be fully honest, that course is one of the main reasons behind my decision to start this list, a month ago, hoping it can help in some way to have the best works in the game recognized (and played) in some way.
it will be getting a good number of plays when my society uses it for our US open in 14 weeks time!
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Post by ezzinomilonga on Aug 27, 2019 6:07:31 GMT -5
SkyBlueBen if i can give you a little advice, try the Lidar version of Liberty National. Quite a good work and i can't see him publicized anywhere. Is the "standard" Routing of the Course, not the one used For the 2017 President's Cup. Then we have a really interesting Tamarack (from the same designer who published the NGLA, both Lidar works) and also a really good San Francisco Golf Club. But, maybe, the work most undervalued and underplayed, talking about ALL the RCRs we have in this game, after hundreds of courses checked, for me is still the Winged Foot West created by Josh Nezat. For me is absolutely unbelievable that the Winged Foot West with more plays we have, is a version actually absolutely fictional, while this true gem of accuracy and details is still not even handicapped. Considering is not a Lidar work, is almost unbelievable how good and..well, actually perfect it is. And to be fully honest, that course is one of the main reasons behind my decision to start this list, a month ago, hoping it can help in some way to have the best works in the game recognized (and played) in some way.
it will be getting a good number of plays when my society uses it for our US open in 14 weeks time!
Oh..i know it! (but if the guys here will continue to produce this crazy amount of great real courses, I suspect you'll need seriously to practice on your skills about subliminal messages. I told you!! )
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Post by ezzinomilonga on Aug 27, 2019 6:19:58 GMT -5
Ah..by the way..a bit more seriously. If someone desire (or just needs) to have a course checked urgently, I'm ready to help and to check, if I can. Cause actually I'm proceeding with not an exact order..i just decided to check a bit later the courses realized by those 6-7 designers that I know for sure they have made an accurate work, trying to give some priority to the unknown (or relatively unknown) designers, possibly also those courses used on PGA or Euro tour and/or not from USA or UK. But having no schedule or any exact plains, I'm ready to check every course it could be useful for someone. In the same time, as already said, if you find errors or new courses, or if you have any kind of suggestion that you think can improve the list, I'm ready to fix/improve/add everything. Have a good week, possibly full of golf
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