acesgalore
Amateur Golfer
Posts: 294
TGCT Name: Chris Hall - Gamer Tag: H4LLY9
Tour: CC-Pro
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Post by acesgalore on Apr 11, 2019 6:52:23 GMT -5
Why oh why when publishing does the game change green grid marks to yellow?
I checked every pin 4 times! Is this just an Xbox publishing issue?
So annoyed!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2019 7:26:00 GMT -5
Hi Chris,
No, this is not just an XB1 issue, many designers experience this. There's no doubt that it's incredibly frustrating. I'm going to move this post to the "Tips and Tricks" thread so that other designers might have insight on this to provide helpful hints to avoid it in the future.
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acesgalore
Amateur Golfer
Posts: 294
TGCT Name: Chris Hall - Gamer Tag: H4LLY9
Tour: CC-Pro
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Post by acesgalore on Apr 11, 2019 7:48:51 GMT -5
Thanks Eric.
So many hours pumped into crafting a course for the game to throw a spanner in the works.
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Post by cephyn on Apr 11, 2019 8:13:09 GMT -5
It's super frustrating! The Conventional Wisdom on this is to design greens at max speed (187) and then dial it down prior to publish. The theory being, if you can't find yellow around your pin at 187, its very unlikely that hidden yellow will pop out at 163 (or whatever you dial down to). The only other advice I have is that the angle of the grid can hide yellow - so when testing pins, putt in a circle around the hole so that the grid will redraw from all sorts of angles. It's tedious, but if you have some pins on quick slopes, particularly near green edges, it can be helpful.
That being said, I designed Roadrunner Mesa at 187, dialed it down to 170ish for publish, and I have seen some hidden yellow pop out. Nothing is foolproof. I even put the green speed down to about 144 and saw half-lines of yellow around a couple of pins.
I'll end with how I started here - It's super frustrating!
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acesgalore
Amateur Golfer
Posts: 294
TGCT Name: Chris Hall - Gamer Tag: H4LLY9
Tour: CC-Pro
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Post by acesgalore on Apr 11, 2019 8:23:30 GMT -5
I didn't even realise green speed affected the gradient colours! I thought it was based on angle only.
The only thing to do is republish I guess
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2019 8:34:11 GMT -5
Yup, the way I've been told it takes an algorithm of firmness, speed, and slope to determine the colors of the grid (speed then shows how fast the beads are moving in the grid).
At times this has happened to me, it's been because the pin was pretty darn close to being a problem anyway, and then after publish it WAS a problem. It sucks, but it is avoidable at least 95% of the time.
P.S. How bad is it? Are we talking a little line of yellow on one of the boxes, or are we talking a couple entire boxes are yellow?
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Post by Violinguy69 on Apr 11, 2019 9:34:56 GMT -5
This is surely frustrating, but as Eric said, it is usually only hole locations that are already borderline. To be safe, always try and give just a little extra space for your pin positions. Of course, sometimes we want to design greens that are very tough and this glitch definitely makes that difficult.
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acesgalore
Amateur Golfer
Posts: 294
TGCT Name: Chris Hall - Gamer Tag: H4LLY9
Tour: CC-Pro
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Post by acesgalore on Apr 11, 2019 10:27:41 GMT -5
This is surely frustrating, but as Eric said, it is usually only hole locations that are already borderline. To be safe, always try and give just a little extra space for your pin positions. Of course, sometimes we want to design greens that are very tough and this glitch definitely makes that difficult. This. The greens were supposed to be the main defence.
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Post by ErixonStone on Apr 11, 2019 12:59:42 GMT -5
Part of what is happening is that the green grids in the designer are always set at the same orientation, while the green grids during gameplay always turn to face the ball.
This means that the green grids you get during gameplay don't match up with the green grids you get while designing. A lot of the time, if you've got a borderline pin, if you play from a different angle, a yellow slope may appear.
I am not convinced that anything on your course is actually changed (like a minute elevation or something) during publishing.
I am not on board with the set-the-green-speed-to-max-and-crank-down-the-speed-later method of green design. I think doing that is a very conservative approach that leads to a couple of outcomes:
1. A glut of courses with default green speeds in the approximately-170-feet range.
2. Generally gently-sloped greens (although they may have dramatic tiering) that offer many easy 10-15 foot putts.
If that's the type of green you're going for, then that's OK. But I like to be more aggressive in my contouring and sloping. The best way to do that is to slow the greens down a bit. For example, at Dawkins Harbour, I dropped the speed down to 144 when I designed my greens and published them at a default of 133.
Instead of starting at 187 and dropping from there, consider designing at the benchmark (Slow=119; Moderate=144; Fast=163; Very Fast=187) that is just above where you intend to publish. In other words, if you plan on publishing at 155, then design your greens at 163 instead of 187.
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Post by Koop on Apr 11, 2019 15:32:52 GMT -5
So, isn't the 9-box yellow/red rule really only something that is a TGCT rule? And how much does a little yellow effect your putt if it is on the very outside edge of one the boxes? I know it is the "rule" for possibly getting a course approved but, so are flat tee boxes and I have seen many that are not flat and they are approved. Just saying
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Post by ErixonStone on Apr 11, 2019 17:02:38 GMT -5
how much does a little yellow effect your putt if it is on the very outside edge of one the boxes? Not much, especially if the yellow slope is directing the ball towards the hole. If it's a long yellow, then we would probably ask for a change. If it's a tiny section, then no big deal.
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Post by csugolfer60 on Apr 11, 2019 17:34:32 GMT -5
how much does a little yellow effect your putt if it is on the very outside edge of one the boxes? Not much, especially if the yellow slope is directing the ball towards the hole. If it's a long yellow, then we would probably ask for a change. If it's a tiny section, then no big deal. Totally agree - I found a few at Susquehannock already that at certain angles have like "half a bar" of yellow around the edges, and putted on them for months during development without ever noticing. Usually happens just if your green slope is steeply green and then a very certain angle it shows a small amount.
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Post by Han on Apr 11, 2019 18:09:12 GMT -5
I think I may have figured something out about this the other night but I need to do more testing on it. It may not be the entire reason for the "phantom yellow" that we keep seeing appear but I'm pretty sure it has something do do with it.
As far as I can tell (and I can't believe I haven't noticed it before now) the green grid is always generated from the positioning of pin 1 regardless of which pin you are looking at or from what angle you come into the green from. This seems to affect how the game reads the contours and draws the grid accordingly just like it does when you come into the green from different places around it.
For example : If you move pin 1 from it's own position (back left) onto say pin position 2 (front right), you will get a completely different grid shown than the original one drawn with pin 1 in it's own back left spot)
Like I said I need to test this some more but even knowing what I have found so far is hopefully going to help to stop those pesky invisible yellow lines showing up.
I'll post anything else as and when I find it.
*Edit
I'll post some pics asap
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Post by B.Smooth13 on Apr 12, 2019 12:49:52 GMT -5
I think I may have figured something out about this the other night but I need to do more testing on it. It may not be the entire reason for the "phantom yellow" that we keep seeing appear but I'm pretty sure it has something do do with it.
As far as I can tell (and I can't believe I haven't noticed it before now) the green grid is always generated from the positioning of pin 1 regardless of which pin you are looking at or from what angle you come into the green from. This seems to affect how the game reads the contours and draws the grid accordingly just like it does when you come into the green from different places around it.
For example : If you move pin 1 from it's own position (back left) onto say pin position 2 (front right), you will get a completely different grid shown than the original one drawn with pin 1 in it's own back left spot)
Like I said I need to test this some more but even knowing what I have found so far is hopefully going to help to stop those pesky invisible yellow lines showing up.
I'll post anything else as and when I find it.
*Edit
I'll post some pics asap
Hmm...hadn't thought of that before, but it makes perfect sense...interesting, and good tip.
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Post by Han on Apr 12, 2019 15:42:08 GMT -5
Some pictures to demonstrate (sorry about how many there are). This maybe wasn't the best example to use in hindsight . Anyway this is a pin that I was having issues with on the first hole on Valderrama and it was whilst playing around with this that I figured out what I have mentioned in my post above. Using pin 1 - pin position marked showing the 9 box square aligned with the green grid and all the nearest yellow and red lines marked at their closest points. Same view just showing the positioning of Pin 3 - grid and everything still aligned the same.
Couple with the HuD turned off so you can see things a bit clearer. As you can see there are no coloured markers inside the box.
Now I switch the positions of pins 1 + 3 but leave all the markers as they are. Pin 1 is now in the pin 3 position - you can see the grid has shifted a bit, you can't tell properly from this pic but it has stayed aligned to the location of pin 1.
Pin 3 in the exact same spot that pin 1 was in - again you can see how the grid alignment has changed but also notice the locations of yellow and red lines compared to the original markers
In this particular situation there hasn't been too much change inside the box, only 2 yellow lines have appeared inside a bit - bear in mind that in this example the green firmness is normal and the speed is at 157, so if these settings were higher then the amount of yellow would be too.
Shown now without the grid again. I have only put new markers down to show the yellow that is now inside the box however you can see in the pic above how much has changed overall.
I'll add some more pics another time of the same location with the speeds etc turned up to see what the difference is, but I know when I was first messing with this pin that I had the speed at 168 and there was significantly more yellow.
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