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Post by Han on Apr 12, 2019 16:31:16 GMT -5
Couple more with everything as it was in the above pics and still pin 3 in that location. These were from doing a single "playtest" of this hole in the designer and were played as consecutive shots rather than using "rewind shot" or exiting and starting a new playtest.
Pitching on from the fairway - looks like the grid is almost exactly aligned to how the "9 box" markers were set up originally for pin 1 even though we are now actually playing to pin 3. However the yellow lines are slightly different.
Putting from past the hole - naturally the grid has changed again as have the yellow lines From the fringe this time - once again different results with the grid and yellow lines. From a different spot on the green - once again different reults.
So looking at the first picture again and how the grid is aligned.......does this mean that whenever you are playing an approach shot to a green from the fairway leading to it, the grid that is generated is always from the perspective of pin 1 regardless of which pin you are actually playing ?
It that is the case it will be interesting to see if that changes for example if you are playing your approach from the fairway on a different hole.
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Post by Han on Apr 12, 2019 17:20:29 GMT -5
Last pics for tonight then I'm going back to building Valderrama which is what I was originally doing These are with just the green speed maxed out (the firmness is still normal) and I have switched pin 1 back onto the spot this time. Approach pitch shot from roughly the same spot as before - interestingly at this point there is hardly any change to the amount of yellow lines than what there was on the lower speed setting, or at least inside the "box" anyway
However once we get onto the putting surface itself things change somewhat........I think there's more red and yellow lines than green ones on that whole front section of the green !
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Post by ErixonStone on Apr 12, 2019 18:28:12 GMT -5
When you playtest, the grid is drawn with the hole at its center, and is aligned with a line drawn from the hole to your ball.
When you are designing, the grid is always at a set orientation, centered around pin 1.
If you move a pin position and cancel that action, the designer will place the full grid around that pin until you take another action.
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Post by Han on Apr 12, 2019 19:50:19 GMT -5
Ah yeah of course, now you mention it I did actually know most of that duh, stupid me. Maybe I got myself too caught up with the idea that I was on to something with the phantom yellow lines that I just completely forgot about the basics lol
Oh well, maybe one day we will figure out what's going on with them....
I still don't understand how the following can happen though (this is from personal experience).
1. I have an unpublished course and send the file to someone else for playtesting. 2. I have the course open in the designer and at the same time I am watching the other person playing a local match on the course via Twitch.
3. For the person playing on Twitch there is a green with a pin that is totally covered and surrounded by yellow lines for roughly at least a 10 x 10 grid square area from the hole. 4. I check the green in the designer and there is no yellow to be seen anywhere near that pin. I do a playtest (in the designer) and still there is no yellow anywhere. 5. I play the course in a local match and all the yellow shows up.
How the hell are we meant to ensure "legal" and fair pin positions when that happens ?
How can I adjust the green contours to get rid of the yellow when I can't even see the yellow when in the designer ?
I even tried taking screenshots while playing locally then trying to estimate their position once back in the designer but eventually gave up and just moved that pin into a totally different area.
I just don't buy the reason that I seem to remember HB giving from TGC1 days about "different systems will render each course differently so the contours will be slightly different for each player".
Surely that can't be right ? Or at least not to the extent that would actually change the contours of a green ?
How could they tune their physics and other gameplay aspects if that were true ?
*Edit
I know the above sounds very unlikely and some folks may think I'm making it up or whatever, so the player on Twitch was Brad (Blueorfe) and I'm sure he will remember it and back up what I am saying.
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Post by ErixonStone on Apr 12, 2019 20:08:56 GMT -5
When the angle of the grid changes, yellow/green slopes can change. It just has to do with the direction the lines are drawn over the slope.
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Post by joegolferg on Apr 13, 2019 7:13:33 GMT -5
Why oh why when publishing does the game change green grid marks to yellow? I checked every pin 4 times! Is this just an Xbox publishing issue? So annoyed! You have putt at each pin from four different directions. That will help to not put out illegal pins in future. Also make sure you check again if you up the green speeds. Illegal pins are avoidable, I've never had one since the beginning of TGCT2.
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Post by joegolferg on Apr 13, 2019 7:15:30 GMT -5
PS. Don't work off the ridiculous nine box rule, go one box extra around the pin. 👍
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Post by PithyDoctorG on Apr 13, 2019 11:09:22 GMT -5
Why oh why when publishing does the game change green grid marks to yellow? I checked every pin 4 times! Is this just an Xbox publishing issue? So annoyed! You have putt at each pin from four different directions. That will help to not put out illegal pins in future. Also make sure you check again if you up the green speeds. Illegal pins are avoidable, I've never had one since the beginning of TGCT2. My understanding is that ErixonStone is correct. It's all about the angle you are approaching from (and Han's pictures seem to show this well). For me the most fool proof method is one that SkinniePost brought to my attention a while back that requires you to putt to each pin three times from very specific angles. Putting from four directions that are 90 degrees from each other won't tell you much since, as Patrick mentioned, the orientation of the grid is the same. The method that works for me is to make an 8 point compass around the pin using the measuring tool (such that the N-S and W-E lines are parallel to the grid lines (you may have to move pin 1 around to ensure there are grid lines around your pin). Then pick any one quadrant of the "compass" (say, Southeast) and, using the "play from here" option, putt once from the Southeast, once from South-Southeast, and once from East-Southeast. That way you'll be testing three different grid orientations in addition to the one in the designer. Note that you don't have to putt from any of the other quadrants of your compass because you'll have already checked that same grid orientation (just coming from 90 or 180 degrees away). I've had some very borderline pins on some of my recent courses but I've yet to encounter any yellow in any nine-boxes when I've done these checks.
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