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Post by joegolferg on Dec 2, 2018 8:25:42 GMT -5
Being methodical is the most efficient way of designing a full course. You should have a routine in mind rather than just randomly jumping from one design job to another. By doing this you'll have an extremely smooth experience when it comes to publishing, as long as you have ticked all of your boxes beforehand. Here's a quick run through of my method/routine.
1. Theory lesson on the style of course i want to build. Even if you're going full fantasy freestyle, I'd encourage anyone to at least scan a few pictures for idea's.
2. Once I've picked my theme I instantly remove all plants, trees, rocks and water, followed by raising up the entire plot by at least 50ft and leveling the whole plot. I'll also alter the terrain outside of the course parameters during this phase. For example, on my current WIP I raised up all the mountains and drop offs on the outskirts of my plot, and we come back to this further on in the process. The last thing I do during this part is set the weather/lighting that will stick with no matter what. I design my courses to suit the lighting I choose. I never change it again.
3. From my theory lesson I'll have an idea of my total routing plan. I plot down holes 1-9 first and check land availability for my back 9 before routing the rest. I'll also lay down some patches of heavy, semi, fairway, green and sand - and choose the textures. Lastly I'll set the course conditions that I intend for the default settings and design my course to fit these settings. The course conditions are never change to be harder, I only ever tone them down when I have a certain setting chosen. If you want your course to play 187, design it entirely whilst having 187 speeds. Same goes for firm and fast settings.
4. This is where I start to lay down the holes. Before I lay the first piece I add the generated trees back in, then clear the paths of where the red routing lines are. I leave a gap width of 100 yds along my routing to leave space for me to manually place down the inner treelines. During this process I always start with building the first hole entirely, this sets the look and standards of the course, it helps me carry on the flow of creativity and it is nice to go back and look at when you need some inspiration. This is the biggest phase, this is where I lay down all eightheen holes, frame them then sculpt them - from tee/tee's right through to green and with hazards included. Vigorously testing the greens and potential pin locations is paramount during this stage. Do it per hole!
5. This is the touch up phase. During this stage I'm just basically adding additional planting (bushes, grasses, flowers, objects etc,) and building the clubhouse. Although, sometimes I build my clubhouse right before I build the first hole. It depends on the feel of the plot. It is also in this phase when I add extra micro sculpting to the spaces between holes or on the parameters. Most of this is already done in phase 4 but, you always see little potential tweeks that make things look better.
6. A very simple and extremely enjoyable phase. Course set up. Placing all your tee's on all tee boxes you've built. Placing all four pin locations per hole and testing all four pins from your back tee's.
7. Publication phase. I play four rounds on all pins right before publishing the course. If you set your course parameters to zero for grasses, rocks and plants, you even need to worry about small put of place objects because you've placed them yourself. The only thing I have to look out for during these test plays are unnaturally large trees from the generated clusters, heavy rough not connected to the light right and any untidy squiggles in the heavy rough. Once you've done that you're good to go.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2018 10:04:54 GMT -5
I had contemplated making a similar thread so I'm happy to chime in here. This is a game right? I have a lot of respect for the rcr makers and the realistic course designers, BUT For me to design a course, the goal is to put golf where golf could not otherwise be. My latest happens to be a grand canyon type of course, so I'll talk about that. Step 1 is really similar to you. Plot edge sculpting and a raising of the entire inner plot to flat. Wouldn't want to hit water while making canyon walls so yeah raised the hole plot 300 feet or so. That cliff in the bg is manually sculpted, you won't find that option on the delta theme I go hole by hole and do all pins and tee boxes usually, unless I get sidetracked. I search for a naturally good vantage point and measure out key distances from the tees and green site once known, then figure out a way to coerce the player into making a bad desision. Always got my eye out for that next epic shot.. That's methods, now philosophies. I haven't made a lot of courses but enough to notice trends in what I like to do. I do not make long courses or holes. Many of my holes do not require driver and I try to advise against it through hazards but rarely deny it completely. The quasi-driveable par 4s that I create I feel are my signature holes. I will taunt you with an eagle then draw 2 squares around your 6. In my latest I try to apply that risk reward to every single shot, and yes that does include the putting.
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Post by Celtic Wolf on Dec 2, 2018 18:20:43 GMT -5
This is something that I could do with, I'm still quite scattered with my designing. Although I have done the raised flattened blank plot bit, there's times where I'll sculpted a bit of terrain and build round it or sometimes I'll plan holes then sculpted around it. On my Desert Wolf course I raised the edges to cut out any ugly terrain transition.
I don't think I've ever had a full course plotted out before laying anything down, which was something that became evident on Desert Wolf as the back 9 are closer to each other than the front 9. I have started to plan out my holes by splitting up the par 4's with par 3's and 5's so you don't have holes with the same par following each other apart from 9 and 10.
One thing I'll try to do is have a variety of holes where the fairway is split, the green split from the fairway or just a fairway to green hole. I do find myself getting bored doing the same thing for a while and start to stray into other parts of designing.
I think I need to find a routine and stick to it, I'll have to try follow your method and see if it works for me.
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Post by rjwils30 on Dec 3, 2018 2:55:21 GMT -5
Super inefficient here!
Just a big sandbox. Messing around until I find something I like for the most part. Messy ness can lead to some interesting outcomes but it can also lead to... messiness. This is always the battle that I fight when designing. I tend to spend a lot of time thinking about the sequence of holes the variety of shots and by the end of the process I feel I’m worn out and so the fine details can get overlooked. I’m still trying to improve on that end with each course though.
My process starts with a big idea, usually a famous course or architectural style. Do some research, fill my head up with images and ideas.
Pick a theme that melds well with the concept, usually a theme with some rustic native quality.
Do a prototype hole with all textures and planting to determine the overall strategy for executing the vision
Think about the overall routing and introduce some large organizing elements (rivers,roads, lakes,hills) prior to the routing that will serve to inform and constrain the routing in an interesting way. I find constraints are a Designers friend, they force interesting solutions.
Set the default sun direction and lighting. It’s all kind of ridiculous but the quality of light on a hole makes a world of difference. I do everything in my power to avoid holes with sun coming from behind. It washes out the hole and kills all of the sculpting. I wish there wasn’t such a visual disparity between sun settings.
Map out the basic routing of the course, try to find a nice balance between up hill down hill, left, right, long, short. Try to avoid redundant shots. And try to optimize the light setting, once again, ridiculous, but a necessary move if you want the holes to feel rich in 3 dimensional form.
Slowly tackle the design of every hole at a preliminary level. Start each hole by looking at the interesting landforms and trying to work with what is there. Think about the relationship and views to other holes. Take a first intuitive stab at a hole based of what you see before you. Hate it. Re do it 3 times until you get something interesting. Do this with every hole, but not always feel fully satisfied.
To be continued....
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Post by linkslover on Dec 3, 2018 6:01:11 GMT -5
I go one of two ways. I either design my holes based on the layout of the generated plot, or I flatten everything if I have specific holes in mind prior to starting the course and do all the sculpting myself. Angus Bay International G. C. used the first way, Northwood Golf Club TGC the second.
I then layout the 18 holes before designing them in order one by one, having a quick play test after completing each hole.
Once I finish all 18, I play four full rounds - one on each pin set - and from different tees, making notes as I go.
I do tweaking, play testing each hole I have tweaked to check it's OK. When I'm satisfied then I have one last full play test before publishing.
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Post by gamesdecent on Dec 3, 2018 7:49:08 GMT -5
Super inefficient here! Just a big sandbox. Messing around until I find something I like for the most part. Messy ness can lead to some interesting outcomes but it can also lead to... messiness. This is always the battle that I fight when designing. I tend to spend a lot of time thinking about the sequence of holes the variety of shots and by the end of the process I feel I’m worn out and so the fine details can get overlooked. I’m still trying to improve on that end with each course though. My process starts with a big idea, usually a famous course or architectural style. Do some research, fill my head up with images and ideas. Pick a theme that melds well with the concept, usually a theme with some rustic native quality. Do a prototype hole with all textures and planting to determine the overall strategy for executing the vision Think about the overall routing and introduce some large organizing elements (rivers,roads, lakes,hills) prior to the routing that will serve to inform and constrain the routing in an interesting way. I find constraints are a Designers friend, they force interesting solutions. Set the default sun direction and lighting. It’s all kind of ridiculous but the quality of light on a hole makes a world of difference. I do everything in my power to avoid holes with sun coming from behind. It washes out the hole and kills all of the sculpting. I wish there wasn’t such a visual disparity between sun settings. Map out the basic routing of the course, try to find a nice balance between up hill down hill, left, right, long, short. Try to avoid redundant shots. And try to optimize the light setting, once again, ridiculous, but a necessary move if you want the holes to feel rich in 3 dimensional form. Slowly tackle the design of every hole at a preliminary level. Start each hole by looking at the interesting landforms and trying to work with what is there. Think about the relationship and views to other holes. Take a first intuitive stab at a hole based of what you see before you. Hate it. Re do it 3 times until you get something interesting. Do this with every hole, but not always feel fully satisfied. To be continued.... Wow, this is pretty much exactly my process. Except I've only just gotten up to maybe 1 redo per hole at this point. I'm sure that bar of expectation increases a bit with each release. I also usually start with inspiration photos of landscapes that I want to mimic, not necessarily specific golf courses, but the rest was spot on for my process.
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Post by Violinguy69 on Dec 3, 2018 8:28:16 GMT -5
I start with an idea. What kind of course do I want to build. I may ultimately change that as the course takes shape, but I gotta start from somewhere.
I prefer to design on land that already has elevation to it. I have only published one course where I started with flat land at zero. Depending on the type of course, I'll set hills to 100 or 0, or something in between. I just like building a course onto existing terrain.
After choosing a theme, I will route the entire course. I'll try and keep the terrain in mind and use it, but ultimately I want 18 holes that flow nicely. I make sure to have an (mostly) even number of dogleg lefts and rights, and I try to sprinkle in some short holes with the longer ones. I also try to have the par 3s go in all four directions so they are not all into the wind or with it. One thing I used to do is make sure that the par 3s and 5s are split into odd and even numbered holes. This was done for alternate shot purposes since one player normally tees off on the even holes and the other on the odd holes. Not sure how that works here, but it was something I thought about.
Once the holes are laid out I get to work on sculpting and building greens and bunkers. Each hole is designed individually, and without a blueprint (usually). I make sure to vary the hazards. If the first green has a bunker front and right, the next hole will have a bunker on the left. I usually go in order from #1 to #18, but sometimes I'll work on a section of the course and all of the holes in that section. As for trees, if I'm building a wooded course, I'll set the trees to 100 but clear all of them from the course. That leaves the ambient trees on the outside boundary but lets me do the trees in between holes. If I know there will be a large section of forest in the middle of the course, I'll leave that. I want to use the auto-gen trees as much as possible to keep my plant meter down.
I playtest as I go. With 2019, we can play our courses in the game without publishing which is awesome. In the past I usually published only one beta - the 18-hole course without planting. Now, I don't even have to do that.
At the end of the day, I try to build a course that makes players use every club they have. I like to allow players to play different types of shots around greens. My courses usually have generous areas of FW around the greens. I love links golf so every course I create starts as a links-style course. Especially since there are no trees. Some stay that way, while others get forested. Sometimes I'll even change themes late in the design. Basically, I work on the course until it looks right.
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Post by ddixjr509 on Dec 3, 2018 12:24:43 GMT -5
Lots of good points being made in here. I'm relatively new to Designer- but wanted to reiterate the lighting point. Set the lighting early! I also like to set the clubhouse location early for routing purposes- holes 1 and 18 are usually my first 2 holes completed. My Design "Philosophy" is a jumbled mess in my head that I can successfully extract from time to time. My main thought when i lay down the hole is making sure there are multiple options off each tee... a hole with 3 or 4 tee options is infinitely more enjoyable than 1 option, and ultimately the finished product will require you to use every club in the bag, and constantly make you shape shots.
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Post by PithyDoctorG on Dec 3, 2018 17:47:07 GMT -5
Thanks for starting this thread, Joe. Of those who have already posted, I'd say I'm probably most similar to Rob and Chuck, but I actually don't use the same process for every course. Sometimes I let the existing topography suggest things like greens, tees, fairways, and hazards and other times I'll design the course more or less completely on paper first. However, there are a few constants that I follow:
1. I have a beginning concept in mind. Usually this is a real course/architect, but I often find myself borrowing from multiple courses/styles as the course evolves.
2. I route all 18 holes and rough in the plot as a whole first. Don't risk having to scrap an outstanding hole that you poured hours into; alleviate any potential routing headaches/logjams first. I also am not afraid to use quirky routings (e.g. back-to-back par threes, "unbalanced" nines, etc.) if it lets me pack in more interesting golf holes.
3. I never start from a flat plot (note that setting starting hills to zero is not flat). I just can't stand the sight of perfectly flat ground on my courses. Even if I plan on doing most of the macro-sculpting myself, I want to have some existing subtle contours throughout the plot.
4. I tend to design the course in several passes, usually because my idea for what the overall course is going to look like evolves as I go so I don't want to over-commit at an early stage. I think I tend to fine-tune and multi-pin my greens much earlier than most. For me, the best green contours are intimately intertwined with the broader hole concept, so I tend to design, playtest, and refine them together. Planting and clubhouse/other extracurriculars usually come at the end, though sometimes I get started on them earlier when I need a creative break from designing holes.
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Post by rjwils30 on Dec 4, 2018 11:14:57 GMT -5
Design Philosophy:
My main goal with a design is to take players out of their comfort zone. Make them think. Introduce elements that are jarring but exciting. Banal and pedestrian golf is the antithesis of what I want to achieve. I would rather put out a course that is polarizing than something that pleases all. Pleasing all often results in the lowest common denominator. I want to cater to players that like a challenge and who enjoy a bit of quirk and ambiguity.
Aesthetically i don’t have any predetermined style (in fact I want my designs to avoid being labelled as my own,even though they still do), I primarily want the course to feel embedded in the landscape, not something that you could put anywhere and change the scenery. I like to blend the course into the surroundings as much as possible. Avoid artificial or overly sculpted bunkers and mounding and arbitrary wobbly fairways that look painted into the ground. Recently on golf club atlas Tom Doak brought up the idea of Wabi Sabi, which is a Japanese term referring to beauty in imperfection or unfinished. I would say I adhere to this idea. I love a course that has all sorts of anomalies, little weird pockets, hazards that feel less composed and more naturally occurring, burnt out grass, knolls with long grass, abrupt transitions. That’s not to say it doesn’t require composing, there is a overall balance and richness that I’m trying to achieve. Im always trying to find a way to add identity and personality to my courses.
I really enjoy seeing how the whole routing of a course fits together. Locating the holes in close proximity introduces a lot of cool moments on a course. I always like standing on a green and getting a look at the next hole. Or standing on a tee and seeing several holes at once. Giving the player and overall spatial sense of where they are.
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Post by jeachus on Jan 27, 2019 11:58:39 GMT -5
Hey folks, I find myself using a hybrid of many of these philosophies and processes. After my first accepted publication (The Rouxgaroux), I had taken some time off from designing just due to the sheer time that it takes. The methods discussed here seem to result in the best possible outcomes but I find myself wondering if there is in fact a way to achieve these outcomes in a shorter time frame. Not to say I’m looking for shortcuts because the hard work does pay off, but surely “there has to be a better way!”
So I’d ask this... what aspect of designing has been your biggest time vacuum, and how did you eventually find a way to negotiate this problem?
For me, I have been considering planting. I am very particular with planting AFTER course design and find that I spend 50% of my time after laying down all 18 in just planting. I’ve considered sculpting and planting FIRST and building a course through the designed features but especially with planting the “area delete” and multi-select delete tools don’t seem to work optimally for this method.
What say you all?
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Post by dvdgobucks78 on Jan 28, 2019 20:46:29 GMT -5
My design process is evolving to the point where I am beginning to get a solid routine together. So far, I have not created any courses beginning with a flattened landscape, so that will be a future focus, especially once I get around to doing a real course re-creation (RCR).
To begin, I'd like to point out that one of the biggest challenges to golf design is listening to the landscape, and using naturally occurring features to guide my design. I will usually begin with a auto generated landscape, minus the extras (trees, bushes, rocks, etc). Following that, I will resculpt landforms to embellish terrain features and begin considering the routing of the course. I prefer to work backwards beginning with the 18th green and working back towards the first tee.
I delete all autogen holes, then prepare a fresh routing, taking advantage of natural sightlines along the way. I also make sure to vary hole lengths and dogleg angles. I prefer to use elevated terrain for teeing areas, making it easier to visualize the hole as you are playing. I also focus on green locations, looking for natural target areas that will minimize the need for oversculpting. This saves me time versus building from scratch. I also use this stage of the process to drop in large objects, most notably infrastructure such as buildings and bridges. I also like to create road surfaces, facilities and locate the clubhouse during this time.
Once routing is complete, I work each hole individually starting with the 18th green and working backwards. I create my surfaces in the following order...
1) Terrain/bunkers/basic scenery; I like to drop in at least a few key bunkers before getting started on the rest. This helps define landing areas and visualize target areas before I settle on a particular shape. I also use this time to consider the placement of scenery and rough in a few of the key elements, taking fullest advantage of sightlines and various
2) Greens; Determine a green shape that allows for easy sculpting and is aesthetically pleasing to fit the landscape. Then I will do a rough-in on green contours, not too detailed at this point, but general slopes and create pinnable areas on the greens. Later on, I will go back and finalize green sculpting. I also choose my green/terrain settings for firmness and roll during this stage.
3) Fairways rough-in 4) Add rough/heavy rough
Once these steps are complete, I have the blueprints for finishing my course. I return to each hole individually, vigorously play testing to make terrain adjustments. I continue working backwards, finishing greens first, then fairways, rough and tees. This is a good time to elevate and flatten teeing areas to match the strategy of each hole. I make sure all tees offer a unique challenge and lay them out accordingly. This is a great way to fine tune your course. During play testing, if my tee shots are not quite landing where expected, raising or lowering the tee box is a great way to fine tune these details without the need for unnecessarily moving and resculpting surfaces.
5) Add nature (trees, rocks, bushes)
6) Add landscape objects (hardscape, additional buildings, water features and signage including yardage markers
7) Add tournament crowds/objects if desired
8) Final polishing; continuously play testing while looking for improvements. Complete planting of all holes and objects, followed by choosing surface textures, weather and lighting. Finally, I will add in all ornamental features such as flower beds, clubhouse furniture, additional facilities, vehicles and tournament objects. I will then use my remaining objects available to add/enhance visuals beyond course boundaries.
Hopefully this will help anyone who is new/inexperienced with the course designer to create better overall layouts. Have fun designing, and I'll be sure to check out some various courses from all of you eager design buffs!
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reebdoog
TGCT Design Competition Directors
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Post by reebdoog on Jan 28, 2019 21:04:41 GMT -5
my process is honestly to do whatever feels right at the time. Seriously. There is no specific right way to do things. I think that if you shoehorn yourself into a specific process you'll miss out on some of the creative process.
You know the best way to think outside the box is to constantly be climbing out of one and into another...
Try different processes. Try different looks.
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