reebdoog
TGCT Design Competition Directors
Posts: 2,742
TGCT Name: Brian Jeffords
Tour: CC-Pro
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Post by reebdoog on Sept 7, 2018 20:28:06 GMT -5
yeah, length is exactly the wrong response to this. However...what is the thought about designing around the SECOND tee...and then putting in a back tee? I know I've always designed for the back tee FIRST (don't ignore the others, but most folks go to the tips). Maybe design for the 2nd tee...then add a champ tee? *shrug*
Just presenting it as the "easy out" option for folks that don't want to mess with the more nuanced approaches this offers.
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Post by Violinguy69 on Sept 7, 2018 21:39:02 GMT -5
I have always designed my courses to allow for 300 yards of fairway, period. Meaning, if I decide to end the fairway, I always allow 300 yards from the back tees. That is, unless I'm asking players to club down. With 2019, I know the driver carries a little more (I didn't know about any built-in over-swing until today), so I'm designing my first 2019 course accordingly. I'm still giving players 300 yards from the tee on holes where I end the fairway before the green. But, I'm also including lots of OB and sand that will hopefully dissuade people from bombing it. Also, I am including some mounding that blocks the view of the green if you hit it too far.
In the end, we can only do what we do. I try as hard as I can not to make length the only factor making a course more difficult, but in the end, 7800 yard courses are going to be what many designers choose.
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Post by XJ_Jagman on Sept 8, 2018 2:49:36 GMT -5
This conversation, in a sense, has been had over and over again on PGA Tour Radio and The Golf Channel. Art imitates life in this case.
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Post by cliffs on Sept 8, 2018 6:03:37 GMT -5
Now that this "glitch" has been brought into the light, how many will never master it?
The PG boys over at the "we ban ya for sneezing" HB forums were all screaming for something like an overswing and the devs never hinted at anything like that coming to the game.
Now that we have found this "glitch" that isn't a "glitch", HB is trying to get on top of it by saying it isn't a "glitch".
You would think that with any of their "interviews" they would have hinted at this...but nooooooooooooooooo.
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Post by crunchshark on Sept 9, 2018 6:29:20 GMT -5
I noticed in playtesting this morning. Cleared a bunker i should never have with the master driver.I find the distances a bit different with each swing but that's a good thing.
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Post by csugolfer60 on Sept 10, 2018 11:47:41 GMT -5
yeah, length is exactly the wrong response to this. However...what is the thought about designing around the SECOND tee...and then putting in a back tee? I know I've always designed for the back tee FIRST (don't ignore the others, but most folks go to the tips). Maybe design for the 2nd tee...then add a champ tee? *shrug* Just presenting it as the "easy out" option for folks that don't want to mess with the more nuanced approaches this offers. This.
9 holes into my first TGC2019 design. Designing as a realistic layout for the "blue tees". After holes are finished and play like a real golf course, with real proportions, I add the new "TGCTours Tee" which is further back. Has the effect of making the tee shots uncomfortable distances, and all relevant bunkers for the long ball are now in the 290-320 range. They have the same effect.
TGCTours Tee will only be available in a separate publish with only that tee available, and tougher conditions/pins. Therefore, most players will play the realistic release, while top level players will be challenged more.
Oh, hi again everyone
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Post by mnguy12000 on Sept 10, 2018 13:56:03 GMT -5
so if you do the F/F, does it produce a hook? If so, then you can build around that knowing carry and roll out distance. With Rough being a non penalty, it comes down to bunkering, water and possible severe lies. If it is indeed 20-30 yards difference between Overdrive and Normal then I think I would be able to layout the holes to make both drives tough.
Though I do not like how rough has no penalty. Takes away forcing a "long hitter" to use 3w instead. It becomes a bomb it down there and don't care. greens are going to go smaller and more undulations have deeper bunkers and hazards. The problem with that is now the normal player will find this course "too Hard".
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Post by PithyDoctorG on Sept 10, 2018 14:05:37 GMT -5
Now that I've had time to get used to master clubs, I think the fact that some players will have an extra option to consider could potentially make what is already good architecture even more interesting. For instance, I'm in the process of porting my Survivor course to 2019 and have been checking out how it plays with the new swing mechanics/ball physics, and I found myself trying different things with my swing (e.g. intentionally getting a fast downswing on a drive to get closer to a back pin on a drivable par four, intentionally getting a slow downswing on a pitch to guard against a fast downswing that would send the ball down a slope behind the hole). This stands in contrast to TGC2, where I felt it was all about picking a line/club and then being able to groove a Perfect/Perfect swing.
As specifically relates to the power drive, I would challenge my fellow designers to consider this as an opportunity to provide MORE options off the tee, not to limit them by cutting off the fairway every time. Indeed, I think the real crux of Griff's post is not so much that a hole will become too easy, but that the power drive renders strategy irrelevant (i.e. being able to blow it over the trouble off the tee and angles being less important with wedges being hit into every hole). I think that we can maintain that interest with well-placed hazards off the tee and intelligently designed green complexes.
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Post by mcbogga on Sept 10, 2018 14:12:38 GMT -5
so if you do the F/F, does it produce a hook? If so, then you can build around that knowing carry and roll out distance. With Rough being a non penalty, it comes down to bunkering, water and possible severe lies. If it is indeed 20-30 yards difference between Overdrive and Normal then I think I would be able to layout the holes to make both drives tough. Though I do not like how rough has no penalty. Takes away forcing a "long hitter" to use 3w instead. It becomes a bomb it down there and don't care. greens are going to go smaller and more undulations have deeper bunkers and hazards. The problem with that is now the normal player will find this course "too Hard". I’m guessing hook can be taken out by the shot shaper?
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Post by mnguy12000 on Sept 10, 2018 14:40:07 GMT -5
so if you do the F/F, does it produce a hook? If so, then you can build around that knowing carry and roll out distance. With Rough being a non penalty, it comes down to bunkering, water and possible severe lies. If it is indeed 20-30 yards difference between Overdrive and Normal then I think I would be able to layout the holes to make both drives tough. Though I do not like how rough has no penalty. Takes away forcing a "long hitter" to use 3w instead. It becomes a bomb it down there and don't care. greens are going to go smaller and more undulations have deeper bunkers and hazards. The problem with that is now the normal player will find this course "too Hard". I’m guessing hook can be taken out by the shot shaper? In TGC2 if you did that a miss would be horrible, while lofting and moving. So with this Super Drive, are they Lofting full and doing F/F? I dont have TGC2019 so just trying to figure ideas out.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2018 15:00:54 GMT -5
yeah, length is exactly the wrong response to this. However...what is the thought about designing around the SECOND tee...and then putting in a back tee? I know I've always designed for the back tee FIRST (don't ignore the others, but most folks go to the tips). Maybe design for the 2nd tee...then add a champ tee? *shrug* Just presenting it as the "easy out" option for folks that don't want to mess with the more nuanced approaches this offers. This.
9 holes into my first TGC2019 design. Designing as a realistic layout for the "blue tees". After holes are finished and play like a real golf course, with real proportions, I add the new "TGCTours Tee" which is further back. Has the effect of making the tee shots uncomfortable distances, and all relevant bunkers for the long ball are now in the 290-320 range. They have the same effect.
TGCTours Tee will only be available in a separate publish with only that tee available, and tougher conditions/pins. Therefore, most players will play the realistic release, while top level players will be challenged more.
Oh, hi again everyone Welcome back, brother. Hoping we get to see more of your gems this time around.
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Post by joegolferg on Sept 10, 2018 17:53:46 GMT -5
Great thread.
Personally I agree with those who are talking of creating more open and wider courses that give more options off the tee. This is something I have been doing for a couple of months now, as I've gone full time designing template hole courses. Width off the tee is everything, create angles, present risk and reward and even make the player drive it as close to the green as possible, only to leave them with awkward short pitch shots into the greens.
I see a good opportunity in this game to create more drive & pitch holes. With the physics giving the ball a lot more roll out, you can really catch players off guard by giving them an open fairway to drive down, but a tricky short (40-90yd) pitch shot into a green that might run away from them, have a steep bank in front or just be a tight target with little green to land the ball on - targets that would be better suited to lofted full wedge shots in from the 90-120 yard range.
Length isn't the answer in my opinion, it's got to be angles and strategy that catches players out. Design with more intelligent idea's. Force players to go one way for a good angle, or the easier for tougher one. Use shot shaping from the tee. The shot shaper in this game is much more sensitive and can easily become a huge mistake off the tee. Force players to shape it around the corner for that shorter approach. Use your default conditions according to your slopes. Sculpt your greens according to your default speed.
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Post by jwfickett on Sept 11, 2018 14:18:58 GMT -5
Great thread. Personally I agree with those who are talking of creating more open and wider courses that give more options off the tee. This is something I have been doing for a couple of months now, as I've gone full time designing template hole courses. Width off the tee is everything, create angles, present risk and reward and even make the player drive it as close to the green as possible, only to leave them with awkward short pitch shots into the greens. I see a good opportunity in this game to create more drive & pitch holes. With the physics giving the ball a lot more roll out, you can really catch players off guard by giving them an open fairway to drive down, but a tricky short (40-90yd) pitch shot into a green that might run away from them, have a steep bank in front or just be a tight target with little green to land the ball on - targets that would be better suited to lofted full wedge shots in from the 90-120 yard range. Length isn't the answer in my opinion, it's got to be angles and strategy that catches players out. Design with more intelligent idea's. Force players to go one way for a good angle, or the easier for tougher one. Use shot shaping from the tee. The shot shaper in this game is much more sensitive and can easily become a huge mistake off the tee. Force players to shape it around the corner for that shorter approach. Use your default conditions according to your slopes. Sculpt your greens according to your default speed. quoted for the m-effin truth
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Post by ErixonStone on Sept 11, 2018 14:32:31 GMT -5
However...what is the thought about designing around the SECOND tee...and then putting in a back tee? On my current course, I am doing exactly this. That back tee is going to be tough, so it'll be interesting to see how it's received.
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Post by SkinniePost on Sept 11, 2018 14:48:14 GMT -5
However...what is the thought about designing around the SECOND tee...and then putting in a back tee? On my current course, I am doing exactly this. That back tee is going to be tough, so it'll be interesting to see how it's received. Yeah, I like 4 tees... A challenge tee, the clubsets... And the fronts could be a D4 fest for fun with Master clubs.
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