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Post by Dave on Nov 23, 2016 13:45:30 GMT -5
All bunkers are mine, the dial for greenside and fairway bunkers were dialled to zero. Rough has been decreased and all parts that were not level with fairway have been adjusted, I may have missed an odd spot here and there but I can assure you it has been designed from scratch.
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Post by Dave on Nov 23, 2016 13:51:28 GMT -5
no being honest you can tell from the light rough its all over the place first green it doesnt even go all the way around and it starts from the tee box, you said feedback welcome Yup you're right, I've missed a bit on the first green. When you say its all over the place, you mean it's not parallel with the fairway all the way round the hole? If so, then that's how it's meant to be, I don't understand why people have a fixation with having a perfect foot wide portion of light rough all the way round the fairway, it's barely worth having and any golf courses I've played have varying widths of light/heavy rough all round the hole, it's never perfectly even.
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Post by staypuft39 on Nov 23, 2016 15:54:42 GMT -5
no being honest you can tell from the light rough its all over the place first green it doesnt even go all the way around and it starts from the tee box, you said feedback welcome Yup you're right, I've missed a bit on the first green. When you say its all over the place, you mean it's not parallel with the fairway all the way round the hole? If so, then that's how it's meant to be, I don't understand why people have a fixation with having a perfect foot wide portion of light rough all the way round the fairway, it's barely worth having and any golf courses I've played have varying widths of light/heavy rough all round the hole, it's never perfectly even. Hey Dave, noticed you were looking for some more feedback, and I needed to take a break from creating myself. Just played a round, and you definitely have some great ideas. Just need a little help along the way, and some focus in certain areas. Right from the get-go, I can see what aces was talking about with the light rough. Having it run right from the teebox is certainly not super-common, however I can see what you were going for, and the light rough helps create a couple very cool looks along the way. HOWEVER, you have to be very careful when using it. A couple areas of note in addition to the #1 green are: the cart path on #3, where the light rough crosses over at one point, creating a very weird patch. Also on #9, about halfway up near a bunker you've forgotten to add light rough altogether, and the fairway has a black, sharp edge. Perhaps the best argument against free-hand light rough is the opening tee. If you zoom out, it looks like the mower was a bit tipsy when doing his rounds. Wouldn't be a great impression if you paid good money to play at a "good" course, and isn't on TGC either. So, keep playing around with the light rough, but maybe have some method to your madness so spots aren't missed and it's not AS crazy. One thing I noticed is you have a lot of "fluff" on your course. Rakes, signs just off the green, bigger signs. All of these are hittable and annoying, the time spent placing them can definitely be better spent on quality control, etc. Your sculpting is one of your strong points, I think. Greens are well done, and all feel fair. Bunkers I would keep working on. The small ones look best, as you tend to sculpt the edges mostly. However, bigger bunkers are left looking very shallow and boring in the middle. Fairway bunkers are a hotly debated topic. You used them a lot, and it did seem like the drop-offs into the bunkers was a bit too much. Trying to mow the edges would be impossible (the fwy bunker on #7 is a good example). I like to build my fairway around patches of rough and THEN place my bunkers to avoid the super-thin collar of rough like you have in most places. Like I said though, you have some very solid ideas, and for an early effort, it's a very passable course. Hope this helps some, let me know if you need further feedback. Some other random tidbits I wrote down while playing: - Greens well done, but a lot of 2-tiers. Maybe a 3-tier? One or two flatter greens? - Hole #3 a very cool design - Tiny area staked off on hole #4, hazard or no? - light rough on #5 looks great - Not much planted in light rough areas, so some things stick out a bit (trees, dead log on #1) - planting otherwise quite good, very natural - Look into elevating your tees a bit. Even 3 feet can make a big difference and allows the player to get a better view - multiple tees are good to have right from the get-go. Especially if you want the course to get on tour - work on areas where fairway meets the green. Sometimes transition is not super-smooth.
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Post by Dave on Nov 23, 2016 16:15:45 GMT -5
Yup you're right, I've missed a bit on the first green. When you say its all over the place, you mean it's not parallel with the fairway all the way round the hole? If so, then that's how it's meant to be, I don't understand why people have a fixation with having a perfect foot wide portion of light rough all the way round the fairway, it's barely worth having and any golf courses I've played have varying widths of light/heavy rough all round the hole, it's never perfectly even. Hey Dave, noticed you were looking for some more feedback, and I needed to take a break from creating myself. Just played a round, and you definitely have some great ideas. Just need a little help along the way, and some focus in certain areas. Right from the get-go, I can see what aces was talking about with the light rough. Having it run right from the teebox is certainly not super-common, however I can see what you were going for, and the light rough helps create a couple very cool looks along the way. HOWEVER, you have to be very careful when using it. A couple areas of note in addition to the #1 green are: the cart path on #3, where the light rough crosses over at one point, creating a very weird patch. Also on #9, about halfway up near a bunker you've forgotten to add light rough altogether, and the fairway has a black, sharp edge. Perhaps the best argument against free-hand light rough is the opening tee. If you zoom out, it looks like the mower was a bit tipsy when doing his rounds. Wouldn't be a great impression if you paid good money to play at a "good" course, and isn't on TGC either. So, keep playing around with the light rough, but maybe have some method to your madness so spots aren't missed and it's not AS crazy. One thing I noticed is you have a lot of "fluff" on your course. Rakes, signs just off the green, bigger signs. All of these are hittable and annoying, the time spent placing them can definitely be better spent on quality control, etc. Your sculpting is one of your strong points, I think. Greens are well done, and all feel fair. Bunkers I would keep working on. The small ones look best, as you tend to sculpt the edges mostly. However, bigger bunkers are left looking very shallow and boring in the middle. Fairway bunkers are a hotly debated topic. You used them a lot, and it did seem like the drop-offs into the bunkers was a bit too much. Trying to mow the edges would be impossible (the fwy bunker on #7 is a good example). I like to build my fairway around patches of rough and THEN place my bunkers to avoid the super-thin collar of rough like you have in most places. Like I said though, you have some very solid ideas, and for an early effort, it's a very passable course. Hope this helps some, let me know if you need further feedback. Some other random tidbits I wrote down while playing: - Greens well done, but a lot of 2-tiers. Maybe a 3-tier? One or two flatter greens? - Hole #3 a very cool design - Tiny area staked off on hole #4, hazard or no? - light rough on #5 looks great - Not much planted in light rough areas, so some things stick out a bit (trees, dead log on #1) - planting otherwise quite good, very natural - Look into elevating your tees a bit. Even 3 feet can make a big difference and allows the player to get a better view - multiple tees are good to have right from the get-go. Especially if you want the course to get on tour - work on areas where fairway meets the green. Sometimes transition is not super-smooth. Thanks for the comments.
I've just played it again and I've noticed a few patches as well, so will go back and do them again.
Problem is, you publish it thinking its perfect and only when a new pair of eyes play it a few missed bits are picked up.
I thought a few people would comment on the number of tiered greens, but I don't like ridiculously uneven greens, so tiered is a personal preference. I'll perhaps look at changing a couple to flat, and maybe a three tier.
Fairway bunkers for me are far more in play than bunkers wide of the fairway, since I've used quite wide fairways, I'm going for a bit more accuracy off the tee, and some bunkers are brought into play by different wind speeds/directions. I'm trying to create a course that is playable, but very difficult to go low 50's, like you see in some of the pro tours. The bigger bunkers are a pain to sculpt, particularly if using multiple templates, so I generally stick to one per bunker, but it kinda means you have the same 3 or 4 shapes all the way round.
The fluff, while annoying, is found on real courses, so I've just added them for realism lol. Although I guess if you're stuck behind a sign in real life, you can just move it. So point taken.
What did you think of #16?
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Post by staypuft39 on Nov 23, 2016 16:49:22 GMT -5
Hey Dave, noticed you were looking for some more feedback, and I needed to take a break from creating myself. Just played a round, and you definitely have some great ideas. Just need a little help along the way, and some focus in certain areas. Right from the get-go, I can see what aces was talking about with the light rough. Having it run right from the teebox is certainly not super-common, however I can see what you were going for, and the light rough helps create a couple very cool looks along the way. HOWEVER, you have to be very careful when using it. A couple areas of note in addition to the #1 green are: the cart path on #3, where the light rough crosses over at one point, creating a very weird patch. Also on #9, about halfway up near a bunker you've forgotten to add light rough altogether, and the fairway has a black, sharp edge. Perhaps the best argument against free-hand light rough is the opening tee. If you zoom out, it looks like the mower was a bit tipsy when doing his rounds. Wouldn't be a great impression if you paid good money to play at a "good" course, and isn't on TGC either. So, keep playing around with the light rough, but maybe have some method to your madness so spots aren't missed and it's not AS crazy. One thing I noticed is you have a lot of "fluff" on your course. Rakes, signs just off the green, bigger signs. All of these are hittable and annoying, the time spent placing them can definitely be better spent on quality control, etc. Your sculpting is one of your strong points, I think. Greens are well done, and all feel fair. Bunkers I would keep working on. The small ones look best, as you tend to sculpt the edges mostly. However, bigger bunkers are left looking very shallow and boring in the middle. Fairway bunkers are a hotly debated topic. You used them a lot, and it did seem like the drop-offs into the bunkers was a bit too much. Trying to mow the edges would be impossible (the fwy bunker on #7 is a good example). I like to build my fairway around patches of rough and THEN place my bunkers to avoid the super-thin collar of rough like you have in most places. Like I said though, you have some very solid ideas, and for an early effort, it's a very passable course. Hope this helps some, let me know if you need further feedback. Some other random tidbits I wrote down while playing: - Greens well done, but a lot of 2-tiers. Maybe a 3-tier? One or two flatter greens? - Hole #3 a very cool design - Tiny area staked off on hole #4, hazard or no? - light rough on #5 looks great - Not much planted in light rough areas, so some things stick out a bit (trees, dead log on #1) - planting otherwise quite good, very natural - Look into elevating your tees a bit. Even 3 feet can make a big difference and allows the player to get a better view - multiple tees are good to have right from the get-go. Especially if you want the course to get on tour - work on areas where fairway meets the green. Sometimes transition is not super-smooth. Thanks for the comments.
I've just played it again and I've noticed a few patches as well, so will go back and do them again.
Problem is, you publish it thinking its perfect and only when a new pair of eyes play it a few missed bits are picked up.
I thought a few people would comment on the number of tiered greens, but I don't like ridiculously uneven greens, so tiered is a personal preference. I'll perhaps look at changing a couple to flat, and maybe a three tier.
Fairway bunkers for me are far more in play than bunkers wide of the fairway, since I've used quite wide fairways, I'm going for a bit more accuracy off the tee, and some bunkers are brought into play by different wind speeds/directions. I'm trying to create a course that is playable, but very difficult to go low 50's, like you see in some of the pro tours. The bigger bunkers are a pain to sculpt, particularly if using multiple templates, so I generally stick to one per bunker, but it kinda means you have the same 3 or 4 shapes all the way round.
The fluff, while annoying, is found on real courses, so I've just added them for realism lol. Although I guess if you're stuck behind a sign in real life, you can just move it. So point taken.
What did you think of #16?
Can't think off the top of my head which one #16 was. As for the design/bunkers/sculpting, you really just want to make yourself happy, so if you've done that, great. I just know if you have aspirations of getting a course on tour, they'll be looking for bunkers with depth and a bit nicer collar around those fairway bunkers. I know it's a "pain", but everything in designing is, lol. All said, if you take the time, you'll eventually get to where you want to be. But, designing takes time. I am about 80% done 12 holes on my latest course, and I'm probably 50-60 hours in. Good designs take time.
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Post by ACES-R-WILD on Nov 23, 2016 19:03:04 GMT -5
yea i always look back up each hole to sometimes you see things you wouldnt and when your standing on the green turn and look around at evrything and you will pick up stuff you missed and by all means i dont think you have to do a 3 click rough but it should be more uniform and yes refrain from obects in bunkers too im not knocking your layout or design thoughts it just looks like you need to spend more time cleaning it up i put in over 200 hours on copperhead but it was a RCR and to get it right takes a lot more time then a fantasy course, my apoolgies i thought you were making a joke so i did my bad, but the offer still stands i would love to help griff showed me a lot of things and it made such a difference in my designs again my apologies
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Post by Dave on Nov 23, 2016 19:12:33 GMT -5
Have changed again slightly. Tor Bridge Golf Club 2
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Post by tastegw on Nov 23, 2016 21:35:15 GMT -5
Listen to feedback and embrace it, don't fight it.
We have a designer who has been here since day one, he rejects any bad feedback, and it shows. He is still at a novice skill level and laughs at any notion otherwise.
Don't be like that guy.
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Post by ACES-R-WILD on Nov 24, 2016 6:58:27 GMT -5
hmmmm colon lol
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Post by Dave on Nov 24, 2016 9:19:08 GMT -5
Listen to feedback and embrace it, don't fight it. We have a designer who has been here since day one, he rejects any bad feedback, and it shows. He is still at a novice skill level and laughs at any notion otherwise. Don't be like that guy. I'm not fighting it, like I said, feedback is appreciated, but theres a difference between constructive criticism and "yeah right you took four days lol" which is basically "your course is sh*t and you've spent no time and effort on it."
But that's all done, we've kissed and made up (not literally) so all is good.
I'm not looking to make tour quality courses, I simply don't have the time to spend thousands of hours on designer, I work til gone 8pm most nights and have a 6 week old child, so I'm lucky if I can spend an hour or two a night on PS4 at all lol.
That said, I enjoy the designer, the courses I make are based on my preferences and from experiences I've had on courses I've played, they may not look perfect but as long as the hole layout is challenging and enjoyable, I'm happy.
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Post by Dave on Nov 24, 2016 9:22:35 GMT -5
yea i always look back up each hole to sometimes you see things you wouldnt and when your standing on the green turn and look around at evrything and you will pick up stuff you missed and by all means i dont think you have to do a 3 click rough but it should be more uniform and yes refrain from obects in bunkers too im not knocking your layout or design thoughts it just looks like you need to spend more time cleaning it up i put in over 200 hours on copperhead but it was a RCR and to get it right takes a lot more time then a fantasy course, my apoolgies i thought you were making a joke so i did my bad, but the offer still stands i would love to help griff showed me a lot of things and it made such a difference in my designs again my apologies No need to apologise, the joys of conversing over a computer screen, no one can see what context or emotion is being used lol.
It's like proof reading, I can spend hours checking everything to make sure it's all perfect and within 5 minutes of someone else looking at it they've picked up something I've missed.
I played it again yesterday and noticed the swans next to the 13th green were disappearing into the bank haha.
The annoying thing is no one else can check it until it's been published, so by the time you get it right, you've got 5 or 6 duplicates that weren't quite perfect and it clogs up your course list.
Never mind, its all good fun.
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Post by ACES-R-WILD on Nov 24, 2016 15:50:27 GMT -5
you can share play brother i did that before i published and you can go offline and play your design i totally understan you dont have time but its better to put out less courses if ther gonna come out better i see your on ps4 add me and we can kiss and make up lol and share some notes
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Post by Jason White on Nov 25, 2016 13:28:21 GMT -5
Do yourself a favor and just buy the game on PC and design there. That's what I did and it's SOOOOOOOO much better. The PS4 crashes drove me insane. I couldn't even finish a few courses because it would freeze up in seconds.
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Post by Dave on Nov 26, 2016 10:23:05 GMT -5
Can anyone try out my Test2tb course and give me some more feedback to make sure it's right before I publish and submit please?
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Post by mnguy12000 on Dec 2, 2016 14:57:36 GMT -5
Hi Dave. I want to give you some feed back as well. but I want to ask a few questions first. When you designed this course dis you let the GNCD lay fairway, rough, bunkers and greens? Or did you move the sliders down to 0? If not, you should think about that. Also remove the hazards as well. Basically go into layout, choose greens and fairways and move hazards to the left to remove them. Also move the green size all the way to 0 as well. I would do the same for the Fariways and light and Heavy rough, some like to have a small band of light or heavy rough left to see the routing of the hole, though I find it can mess with the brushes that get layed over them.
Now I do not think there is anything wrong with letting the GNCD lay the holes down for you. The problem is sometimes if you leave all the hazards and water, the GNCD places them in dumb and unrealistic places, making even a modified course look autogened. So removing them helps with that.
as a new designer I would stick with this method of laying fairway/greens with rough. The 3 click. so lay fairway, back out, then select rough in same shape, enlarge a touch, then 1,2,3 click. that will give you a nice first cut. I would do this starting with the green and working my way to the tee. Then lay down bunkers after, making sure there is enough Heavy rough space for a nice buffer.
That should at least get you started getting the course to look a little less like an auto gen. Like I said, it is ok to auto gen the hole layout, just laydown every hole yourself. If it goes Dog leg left, and you feel a DLR is better then do it. Remember you can move the waypoint after the fairway has been laid. Green to far or not far enough move it, tee box same.
As for bunkers, 2 ways. 1) if you want to use shapes, thats cool, ovals and circles are no brainers, but also the squiggly ones too. Lay them down, then to the raise brush, drop the same shap just inside the bunker and lower 4 to 6" for fairways and 8-10+ for green. It will give some depth to your bunkers, then you go in with the fuzzy round flatten brush and smooth it out. 2) custom. I draw my shapes, lay the corners and fill in. then I use the 3 circle brush as small as it goes and raise the outer edge between 8-10" over and over until I get the look I want. Then lower the same brush 4" and run it on the inside of the bunker. Then lastly flatten the middle down.
If you can do these two things you shouldnt have a problem getting a course accepted into the database.
Check out my twitch page as I have tons of vids of me using this and the draw and fill technique as well. Let me know if you have any other questions. good luck
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