Design Thought.

[boomboom]

I have made a billion mistakes designing courses.

My latest thinking is giving the player a chance at birdie from the putting surface, but making getting there hard.

I really enjoy those courses, the drop and stops I just find a little ho hum about.

However with that said, you really need consider as a designer, not how you are going to stop the player from making birdie, but what shot are you going to give the player. Needing to land 50 yards off the green with a hard draw, might work in the designer, but give any kind of wind and that is now impossible.

We cant just have people aiming to miss our greens, we need get them aiming for the greens, hitting the green, and most importantly, staying on the green.

As a player I just do not like those impossible holes with absolutely no shot available, I just want to hit a skip button.

The game is a lot of fun when you can scout into the green, pick a landing spot on the green, hit the landing spot, and watch as the perfectly executed shot rolls up near the hole. Its just not fun aiming to miss the green or when your only landing spot, if at all, is 30 yards before the green. Even if I roll 30 feet past but stay on the green, I think, at least a shot was available.

Any how, that's what I like, JMHO is all.

[pyates]

Couldn't agree more.

I find if you are making it firm and fast, on the whole you need a touch of back to front slope. Just enough so that the slow roll will gradually come to halt if you don't hit the required slope. Nothing worse than hitting the front edge but missing the available backstop only to see it trickle all the way past the hole off the green.

Another thing I like to visualise when designing a green. If the ball has 25 yards of roll in it and the pin is 20 yards on, you can either use slopes to shorten that roll, a backstop to roll the ball back off, or you can use slopes to simply turn the ball. Either way you use up yardage. Many of my greens use all three sometimes for a single shot

[boomboom]

Yeah I get the debate about scores, but I enjoy golf, this is a game, I like to play golf, see golf courses, play golf courses. To heck with the scores, let them be what they will be.

[ErixonStone]

I've designed a green where there is a back-to-front slope and the back portion of the green is on a raised tier. The pin is only a few feet from the downslope to the bottom tier. Landing behind the pin leaves a difficult downhill putt where, if you miss and aren't careful, you'll roll down the slope to the bottom tier and have 20 feet back up the hill. Or, you could play it short and give yourself an uphill putt for birdie. If you miss that one, the ball should stop for a tap-in par.

It takes a great shot or a great putt to make birdie. From the tee, there is some risk/reward and 3 options. If you take the biggest risk, you're left with an 8I. If you play the safest route, you're hitting 5I to the green.

I don't think you have to let players get super close. But there should be an available birdie putt out there, even if it's from 20 feet away. It's hard to pull off.

[mcbogga]

Lots of good ideas here. But nothing wrong with having a couple of pins where aiming at it will hurt and hitting the safe shot to 20 foot is the play.

Another big thing is balance and variance. A good course cannot have 18 holes that plays the same. A couple of difficult holes where par is good and attacking puts double in play balanced by a couple where birdie is common but taking risks may even yield eagle.

I find that courses in general is made on a too "even" level. Either easy or difficult. The way to get away with a diabolical hole is to balance it with a rewarding birdie. IRL design concept that carries over well.

[mav78]

Greens should be fundemental in course design with each green taking into account no less than maybe 3 pin positions, the more the better not just for avoiding wear and tear but just moving hole locations completely changes the way a hole plays. I'm getting better at being more intricate with green design, actually makes daigjing more thoughtful.

As for front to back sloping u have to be careful but as long u have plenty of room on the higher front tier allowing to land it short and catch the slope then it's usable, what to watch for is cross fall where green slopes catch the ball and send it off unpredictably usually off the green at the same spot, in real life these are use to divert surface water to release areas or drains. Redan is an interesting simple design worth learning about

[mcbogga]

A well made redan is a thing of beauty and captures the essence of golf design. It leaves a play for the weaker player out to the right It catches out the foolhardy player that shoots for the pin. It requires some thought but is not deceptive. It allows for a good shot to produce that wonderful feeling of watching the ball catch the slope and roll towards the flag. I like both the ones that shows the green so the ball can be seen all the way and the ones where the bunker is higher and the ball disappears around the corner. The latter produced that feeling of excitement to see how close it got.

Mav is spot on - a dull or mismatched green will ruin an otherwise good hole.

[mav78]

Even more so on this game because the drive is usually so easy

[Deleted]

Apr 21, 2016 19:57:41 GMT -5 boomboom said:

Yeah I get the debate about scores, but I enjoy golf, this is a game, I like to play golf, see golf courses, play golf courses. To heck with the scores, let them be what they will be.

This right here!!!!