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Post by yaters on Feb 9, 2016 10:43:58 GMT -5
How the crap do you use this marker? I've read everything again and watched video after failing miserably during a round. It is not clicking at all and I'm steadily getting worse. So frustrating - ready to just throw the game out. I'd be better off just missing the green on purpose and trying to chip in. How far past the hole did the ball go in your old method compared to your new method. If you used to putt aggressively and are now putting at the "correct strength", imho the hole will now be smaller. The ball wants to go in with a bit more pace, unfortunately I don't have a pair big enough to do this lol. For me it all comes down to can I guarantee I have read the break correctly, most of the time the answer being no!!! I never had issues going too far past the hole with just the feel method. Once in awhile I misjudged really long putts, but in general that was not my issue. I lipped out a lot of putts and that would throw the ball 20 feet from the hole on the slick downhill putts. With this method I'm consistently past the hole by a good margin. 187 greens, 20 foot putt, 10 inches downhill. The math has me trying to hit an 11 or 12 foot putt. I do that and I'm 15 feet past at least if I miss. More success with uphill putts but about the same as before really. What has gone completely off for me is my aiming now. I adjust for the break, adjust for the distance, and am missing the putts by 2-3 cups. I never did that before. I don't know where to aim I guess. I know this is how top players play. The poll is obvious. Lots of comments here that if you don't do this you are basically stupid. I guess there is a new category for someone like me - too stupid to understand how to use it  |
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Post by yaters on Feb 9, 2016 10:49:35 GMT -5
Appreciate the videos Jimmy - not sure it helps with whatever I'm doing wrong. I don't see your routine being different than mine.
Maybe just time I took a good long break and stopped worry so much about it. It's a game, but since making the PGA I'm not enjoying the experience any more. I'm feeling a lot of pressure to get better and perhaps that is the issue - I'm not going to get better and just need to understand I've peaked out.
Enough whining and complaining from me. I'm happy it has helped your play - you are a dedicated player and deserve the success you are having.
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Post by staypuft39 on Feb 9, 2016 10:57:55 GMT -5
Appreciate the videos Jimmy - not sure it helps with whatever I'm doing wrong. I don't see your routine being different than mine. Maybe just time I took a good long break and stopped worry so much about it. It's a game, but since making the PGA I'm not enjoying the experience any more. I'm feeling a lot of pressure to get better and perhaps that is the issue - I'm not going to get better and just need to understand I've peaked out. Enough whining and complaining from me. I'm happy it has helped your play - you are a dedicated player and deserve the success you are having. Yaters the biggest thing I'd mention is downhill putts are really hard. You'll get there. You mentioned a 20 footer with 10 inches downhill on 187 greens. In that case I'd only hit it about 6 or 7 feet. Bigger the hill, the more you err on the short side. They tend to slip forever on fast greens and big hills as you know. The toughest ones for me are 10 footers 2 inches downhill... Always seem to come up short. Very fine line as breaks more than 3 or 4 inches seem to supercharge the ball a bit. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2016 11:39:47 GMT -5
If you are struggling with the putting marker then im guessing your speed is off.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2016 11:47:42 GMT -5
Played Boomer's Riviera CC. Greens at 187 so the calculation will be slightly off that of a medium green. Not the best examples I can get, but it's getting late. I'll try to make some steeper downhill ones tomorrow. The putting marker doesn't help you aim left/right... you still have to do that on your own. It does, however, give you a pretty accurate range of distances it will travel and allow you quite a bit of leniency in backswing range to still hit the specified distance. those are good ideas Jimmy but on the uphill one I would play less break and bang it in the hole just sayin |
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Post by champ39 on Feb 9, 2016 12:57:17 GMT -5
How far past the hole did the ball go in your old method compared to your new method. If you used to putt aggressively and are now putting at the "correct strength", imho the hole will now be smaller. The ball wants to go in with a bit more pace, unfortunately I don't have a pair big enough to do this lol. For me it all comes down to can I guarantee I have read the break correctly, most of the time the answer being no!!! I never had issues going too far past the hole with just the feel method. Once in awhile I misjudged really long putts, but in general that was not my issue. I lipped out a lot of putts and that would throw the ball 20 feet from the hole on the slick downhill putts. With this method I'm consistently past the hole by a good margin. 187 greens, 20 foot putt, 10 inches downhill. The math has me trying to hit an 11 or 12 foot putt. I do that and I'm 15 feet past at least if I miss. More success with uphill putts but about the same as before really. What has gone completely off for me is my aiming now. I adjust for the break, adjust for the distance, and am missing the putts by 2-3 cups. I never did that before. I don't know where to aim I guess. I know this is how top players play. The poll is obvious. Lots of comments here that if you don't do this you are basically stupid. I guess there is a new category for someone like me - too stupid to understand how to use it My own personal marker range for 187 greens (it's all I ever seem to play on) is : Putts between 3.5ft and 9ft I can play up to 5 inches extra on the marker if I'm sure of the read,(slightly less if downhill). As the putts get further out it will be more like the standard, distance to hole + 1.5 x elevation, then add 2 or 3 inches on the marker, longer putts (35 ft and beyond) I will slip into the "tentative zone" and maybe add only 1.5 inches as I'm basically lagging if the putt is a tough one. Downhillers I will bring the marker nearer progressively when I get beyond 9 foot, from leaving it in the hole for a 1 inch downhill putt, to up to 4 inches shorter than the slope itself when the putts get severe. ( 30ft putt 12 inch down becomes 30 - 12 - 4 = marker placed at 14ft ). All of this is dependant on any changes in elevation between the ball and the hole, and especially what is happening just before and after the hole. It may be a downhill putt that goes uphill 2ft in front of the hole so I would add a hair more pace to the read, or if there is a big drop 2ft beyond the hole, I have no problem lagging one up just short and taking par. The "softer" you hit a downhiller the more it will break, if you think there is some, it will become a lot because the ball has very little forward momentum, be prepared to play huge breaks on the real steep ones. So I work within the range of between minus 4 and plus 5 inches on the marker, and let the difficulty of the putt, or the one back (after I miss haha), determine the speed for me, which in turn determines the line for me. Now reading the line correctly........that's the tough part which I can't crack lol. |
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Post by Royce on Feb 9, 2016 13:01:40 GMT -5
There's people that understand this better than me, but from some of the forums I've read, the putting marker is crucial to holing more putts. Apparently if the marker is positioned correctly, it gives you a better chance of hitting the ball at the correct speed. The computer some how gives you a wider margin for era if the marker is positioned in the correct spot. Obviously you still have to be able to read the green correctly, so if you can't do that then you will always struggle, but by setting the marker, your speed on putts will improve which will increase your chances of holing putts To put it in simplistic terms; aligning the marker correctly gives you a "proper read" bonus of sorts. |
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Post by yaters on Feb 9, 2016 13:01:47 GMT -5
Exactly what Matt said, yaters. On 187 greens you MUST alter the formula. For your situation of the 20 footer and 10 inches downhill, the formula does tell you to hit it at 12 feet. And as you have already experienced, this lets the ball go more than 10 feet past the hole. But the formula that you are using is set up for the the medium green. Instead of adding 2 feet to your total distance for downhill putts, try subtracting 3 or 4 feet. The downhill putts on fast greens seem to exponentially alter the distance traveled so you must adjust! Like I said, I'll try to get some examples of the downhill putts later today. Well maybe that is it right there....I was not adjusting the formula for green speeds. I was trusting it to be right and flying by the hole. Also, do you aim for break and then adjust the distance? Or do you adjust the distance and then aim? I was doing it the first way and think that was causing some issues too. |
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Post by blackaces13 on Feb 9, 2016 13:06:36 GMT -5
The formula does not work on fast greens when the putt is significantly downhill. You must hit MUCH less than the simple rule tells you in that situation.
The rule is just a guide, you can't always follow it.
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Post by champ39 on Feb 9, 2016 13:33:43 GMT -5
Exactly what Matt said, yaters. On 187 greens you MUST alter the formula. For your situation of the 20 footer and 10 inches downhill, the formula does tell you to hit it at 12 feet. And as you have already experienced, this lets the ball go more than 10 feet past the hole. But the formula that you are using is set up for the the medium green. Instead of adding 2 feet to your total distance for downhill putts, try subtracting 3 or 4 feet. The downhill putts on fast greens seem to exponentially alter the distance traveled so you must adjust! Like I said, I'll try to get some examples of the downhill putts later today. Well maybe that is it right there....I was not adjusting the formula for green speeds. I was trusting it to be right and flying by the hole. Also, do you aim for break and then adjust the distance? Or do you adjust the distance and then aim? I was doing it the first way and think that was causing some issues too. It should be whatever you prefer. I bring the marker to the flag to check the elevation, and after looking at the hole from wormcam in front, wormcam behind, wormcam scrolling back from the hole to the ball. Adjust the break first before adjusting the speed, all the while knowing wether I plan to be aggressive or tentative. Then I tap in for par haha. |
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Post by yaters on Feb 9, 2016 13:39:06 GMT -5
haha - so some of you adjust before marking the distance and some after. Got it I think I'll try adjusting after after since I feel like I'm moving the marker from my intended line too much when doing the distance. Also, I know this is not some magical formula that works every time. I did expect it to make me more consistent and that hasn't been the case yet. More work to do - but taking break from it for awhile. I've got DO, DaddyJules, Kenny Willis, and Nemecyst coming up in match play. I better figure this out quick. |
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Post by ErixonStone on Feb 9, 2016 14:29:31 GMT -5
I found that adjusting the putting marker made me a more consistent putter, but not a better one. I started making FEWER putts, but I also eliminated almost all 3-putting. I'm working on two things now:
1. Recognizing when I can take a more aggressive line on downhill putts. If I'm left with a 6-foot uphill putt, I'm OK with that.
2. Being more aggressive on uphill putts. If I hit it too hard and miss, I'm OK with a 3-foot downhill putt.
It's hard to get out of the habit of avoiding bogey instead of trying for birdie. I read something on here - or on HB'S forum - about loss aversion and how PGA pros make more par putts than birdie putts of equal distance.
If you make 3 putts you normally don't, and 3-putt once more than you usually do, then that's 2 strokes gained.
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Post by mcbogga on Feb 9, 2016 19:18:09 GMT -5
How far past the hole did the ball go in your old method compared to your new method. If you used to putt aggressively and are now putting at the "correct strength", imho the hole will now be smaller. The ball wants to go in with a bit more pace, unfortunately I don't have a pair big enough to do this lol. For me it all comes down to can I guarantee I have read the break correctly, most of the time the answer being no!!! I never had issues going too far past the hole with just the feel method. Once in awhile I misjudged really long putts, but in general that was not my issue. I lipped out a lot of putts and that would throw the ball 20 feet from the hole on the slick downhill putts. With this method I'm consistently past the hole by a good margin. 187 greens, 20 foot putt, 10 inches downhill. The math has me trying to hit an 11 or 12 foot putt. I do that and I'm 15 feet past at least if I miss. More success with uphill putts but about the same as before really. What has gone completely off for me is my aiming now. I adjust for the break, adjust for the distance, and am missing the putts by 2-3 cups. I never did that before. I don't know where to aim I guess. I know this is how top players play. The poll is obvious. Lots of comments here that if you don't do this you are basically stupid. I guess there is a new category for someone like me - too stupid to understand how to use it A 20 footer that is 10 downhill is either on a tier or almost borderline yellow. Math goes out the window on these as they are "taaap" territory. May have to bring the marker to 3-4feet and aim a lot left or right and just taap it. Same as IRL just have to be defensive on those. Down a tier it's also same as IRL. Play it like a "pool shot" figuring out where ball needs to hit the crest to be on the right line. Then just aim and putt to that point and dont care about the hole. Also make sure to check what happens behind the hole. If there is a drop off I usually bring the marker even closer to the golfer as long is not the way to go. Turnng grid off forces you to stop overhitting putts as well as those 6-7foot returns will kill you. That the hole gets "smaller" with slower delivery speed is just nonsense. |
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Post by yaters on Feb 9, 2016 19:26:56 GMT -5
I never had issues going too far past the hole with just the feel method. Once in awhile I misjudged really long putts, but in general that was not my issue. I lipped out a lot of putts and that would throw the ball 20 feet from the hole on the slick downhill putts. With this method I'm consistently past the hole by a good margin. 187 greens, 20 foot putt, 10 inches downhill. The math has me trying to hit an 11 or 12 foot putt. I do that and I'm 15 feet past at least if I miss. More success with uphill putts but about the same as before really. What has gone completely off for me is my aiming now. I adjust for the break, adjust for the distance, and am missing the putts by 2-3 cups. I never did that before. I don't know where to aim I guess. I know this is how top players play. The poll is obvious. Lots of comments here that if you don't do this you are basically stupid. I guess there is a new category for someone like me - too stupid to understand how to use it A 20 footer that is 10 downhill is either on a tier or almost borderline yellow. Math goes out the window on these as they are "taaap" territory. May have to bring the marker to 3-4feet and aim a lot left or right and just taap it. Same as IRL just have to be defensive on those. Down a tier it's also same as IRL. Play it like a "pool shot" figuring out where ball needs to hit the crest to be on the right line. Then just aim and putt to that point and dont care about the hole. Also make sure to check what happens behind the hole. If there is a drop off I usually bring the marker even closer to the golfer as long is not the way to go. Turnng grid off forces you to stop overhitting putts as well as those 6-7foot returns will kill you. That the hole gets "smaller" with slower delivery speed is just nonsense. Thanks for taking the time to post that. Some good thoughts there that I will certainly incorporate. Maybe not being on the side of the hole with a 20 foot 10 inch drop is a good idea too I can't do the no-grid TST thing though. I tried but either my TV is bad, the XB resolution isn't good enough, or I just suck. Probably the later. I'd rather have the right line and miss than get frustrated constantly reading them wrong for break. |
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Post by canthitstraight on Feb 10, 2016 2:41:51 GMT -5
Here's another one John. 26 footer that's a foot downhill with a huge right to left break. Green speeds were not the fastest but faster than average I believe with the 181 foot putter distance. Math says to subtract 12 from 26 to get 14 feet. I lopped off another 5 feet off that and ended up just about right. had I aimed a click or two to the right, I would have holed it. Had these been max greens, I might have needed to adjust marker to 6 or 7 feet instead of 9.
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