Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2015 0:18:03 GMT -5
This will come across as unpopular and I know this.
For reference sake, I have played 18 official events on TGCT, making all cuts where cuts are part of the tour, and submitted all of my 72 rounds correctly within these 18 events (I am assuming I submitted my 4th round of PGA CIMB event correctly).
I also played the U.S. Open and The Open qualifier a few months back. I submitted 7 of 8 round correctly. Neither qualifying tournament was I even close to making it to either Major through these qualifying events. At the time there was no API data to verify, but bare with me. My one round I submitted wrong was in The Open qualifier. I had finished 17 holes and I thought I had finished all 18 holes, and I submitted my score. I ended up getting a birdie on #18, so my actual scorecard was one better than my submitted rounds. No problem for me personally as I was a long way from making it to The Open.
My point is this: We have all the data for what someone did as far as score, FIR, GIR, putts, longest hole-outs, and longest putt. If someone submitted a wrong scorecard it is often, but not universally, human error.
I ask a three part question now:
a) Is it reasonable to ask if the API data shows someone submitted a wrong score, to have their actual API score be the prevailing score on the leaderboard?
b) Is this even possible as far as coding goes?
c) Ethical? I can understand both sides of this. We have a manual submission of scores just like the actual tours do, and I understand the precedent set there. But honest mistakes happen. Whether it be submitting out of round order or having the par to the course be wrong in our minds, mistakes do happen.
These discussions have happened before at some points, and I understand the majority position of checking your card carefully. I write down my round scores to par, and I write down the course strokes to par, and I verify myself before I submit. But we do not have the real life checkpoint of having your playing partner (or a caddy) keep a separate scorecard to verify like the actual IRL tours do.
I am fine with any course this may go, I just thought I would throw this out there. I have no issue if I get slammed as I understand the process of properly verifying your own score, but if we have the proper data, then if a mistake happens, and the coding allows it, why not correct a mistake?
|
|
|
|
Post by Doyley on Oct 30, 2015 0:32:46 GMT -5
This will come across as unpopular and I know this. For reference sake, I have played 18 official events on TGCT, making all cuts where cuts are part of the tour, and submitted all of my 72 rounds correctly within these 18 events (I am assuming I submitted my 4th round of PGA CIMB event correctly). I also played the U.S. Open and The Open qualifier a few months back. I submitted 7 of 8 round correctly. Neither qualifying tournament was I even close to making it to either Major through these qualifying events. At the time there was no API data to verify, but bare with me. My one round I submitted wrong was in The Open qualifier. I had finished 17 holes and I thought I had finished all 18 holes, and I submitted my score. I ended up getting a birdie on #18, so my actual scorecard was one better than my submitted rounds. No problem for me personally as I was a long way from making it to The Open. My point is this: We have all the data for what someone did as far as score, FIR, GIR, putts, longest hole-outs, and longest putt. If someone submitted a wrong scorecard it is often, but not universally, human error. I ask a three part question now: a) Is it reasonable to ask if the API data shows someone submitted a wrong score, to have their actual API score be the prevailing score on the leaderboard? Don't mind you asking at all
b) Is this even possible as far as coding goes? Yes
c) Ethical? I can understand both sides of this. We have a manual submission of scores just like the actual tours do, and I understand the precedent set there. But honest mistakes happen. Whether it be submitting out of round order or having the par to the course be wrong in our minds, mistakes do happen. This is one of the core features of our tour that we wanted from the outset. We wanted it to feel like you were on tour - and at the end of every tournament everywhere, a player has to sign for the score he shot. If he does that incorrectly there are punishments which in some cases are severe (DQ). I don't ever see us backing off on this for the original tours. Any additional tour we add (Think any tour you would find in the Other Tours tab) will not be held to that rule - it will be up to the organizers of those tours to decide if that's how they want to operate their tours. As for the PGA, Euro, Web and Challenge Circuits - the score you sign for will be the only one that matters and the API will be there to verify it only.These discussions have happened before at some points, and I understand the majority position of checking your card carefully. I write down my round scores to par, and I write down the course strokes to par, and I verify myself before I submit. But we do not have the real life checkpoint of having your playing partner keep a separate scorecard to verify like the actual IRL tours do. Your scores are saved under the My Recent filter or in your handicap scoring section which is similar to having a playing partner keep a separate scorecardI am fine with any course this may go, I just thought I would throw this out there. I have no issue if I get slammed as I understand the process of properly verifying your own score, but if we have the proper data, then if a mistake happens, and the coding allows it, why not correct a mistake? TGC Tours prides itself on simulating a golf career the best we can - we try to take as much from the real life aspect of a tour as possible (registration, cuts, score submission) to enhance the experience. Speaking as someone who has been DQ'd before, I know how deflating it is to have your rounds go to waste but I also know that I've only done it once and have been extremely careful to write my scores down and submit them on time ever since. It's all part and parcel of the TGC Tours experience. At the end of the day the onus is on each person to follow the rules laid out and score submission is definitely one that will be sticking around. Appreciate the post bringing up the topic as it allows us to stress how important that aspect of what we're doing here is to the Admin. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2015 1:05:13 GMT -5
c) Ethical? I can understand both sides of this. We have a manual submission of scores just like the actual tours do, and I understand the precedent set there. But honest mistakes happen. Whether it be submitting out of round order or having the par to the course be wrong in our minds, mistakes do happen. This is one of the core features of our tour that we wanted from the outset. We wanted it to feel like you were on tour - and at the end of every tournament everywhere, a player has to sign for the score he shot. If he does that incorrectly there are punishments which in some cases are severe (DQ). I don't ever see us backing off on this for the original tours. Any additional tour we add (Think any tour you would find in the Other Tours tab) will not be held to that rule - it will be up to the organizers of those tours to decide if that's how they want to operate their tours. As for the PGA, Euro, Web and Challenge Circuits - the score you sign for will be the only one that matters and the API will be there to verify it only.These discussions have happened before at some points, and I understand the majority position of checking your card carefully. I write down my round scores to par, and I write down the course strokes to par, and I verify myself before I submit. But we do not have the real life checkpoint of having your playing partner keep a separate scorecard to verify like the actual IRL tours do. Your scores are saved under the My Recent filter or in your handicap scoring section which is similar to having a playing partner keep a separate scorecardI am fine with any course this may go, I just thought I would throw this out there. I have no issue if I get slammed as I understand the process of properly verifying your own score, but if we have the proper data, then if a mistake happens, and the coding allows it, why not correct a mistake? TGC Tours prides itself on simulating a golf career the best we can - we try to take as much from the real life aspect of a tour as possible (registration, cuts, score submission) to enhance the experience. Speaking as someone who has been DQ'd before, I know how deflating it is to have your rounds go to waste but I also know that I've only done it once and have been extremely careful to write my scores down and submit them on time ever since. It's all part and parcel of the TGC Tours experience. At the end of the day the onus is on each person to follow the rules laid out and score submission is definitely one that will be sticking around. Appreciate the post bringing up the topic as it allows us to stress how important that aspect of what we're doing here is to the Admin.I will offer some devil's advocate positions here, and some that I really do believe in. It seems the law has been laid out, but I cannot let some things slip past in what I quoted from you, Doyley (in red). I do not find it consistent that the core tours are held to this score submission feature, but 'Other Tours' are open for each of those tours' staff to have interpretations on this rule. Are they not a part of TGCT? I mean no disrespect to any tour or any staff member of any current tour, or any tour in the works, or any tour not yet thought of. I am welcome to anything that expands TGCT. Options are a good thing. But I just find consistency a positive when anything is brought under the same roof. Hope that makes sense. As far as score verification: I may be naive here, as I submit quickly after my rounds after I write them down and verify them on my personal scorecard in game... but your suggestion of the 'My Recent' filter only applies to those who wait to submit. That percentage of player may be larger than what I perceive actually happens, but I believe few here go that route despite your counter being accurate. To me this is technicality vs actuality. Last point: You stress the point of simulating the actual RL tours. I am fine with that, but then I find a glaring anomaly in a recent change. You mention registration as one of the aspects from a real life tour that we are trying to simulate. We just relaxed registration to the effect that one can register after a deadline has passed. What is the point of said deadline except for worrying to miss when max field is met? I perfectly understand the time and headaches the staff foregoes with this upgrade. I go back to my first counterpoint about consistency, that is all. |
|
|
|
Post by ABU_Bear on Oct 30, 2015 2:24:20 GMT -5
What if you write your scores down and still submit them wrong?  |
|
|
|
Post by Doyley on Oct 30, 2015 7:01:43 GMT -5
On your last point Bob the reason we allow late registration is that we want you to play - we have to be flexible since everyone has different schedules since this isn't a paid job like pro Golfers have. But once you tee off I don't think we need to continue that leniency through every other aspect of the tour save for glitches which we do our best to work around.
|
|
|
|
Post by ABU_Bear on Oct 30, 2015 7:20:55 GMT -5
On your last point Bob the reason we allow late registration is that we want you to play - we have to be flexible since everyone has different schedules since this isn't a paid job like pro Golfers have. But once you tee off I don't think we need to continue that leniency through every other aspect of the tour save for glitches which we do our best to work around. I'll pose this question. Why is it when someone signs their scorecard and incorrectly submits a score that is lower than the API(honest mistake) they are automatically DQ'd, but when someone signs their scorecard and incorrectly submits a score that is higher than the API(again honest mistake) the higher score is allowed to stand? Both have signed incorrect scorecards. By standing with the RL feel and outcome..both players should be DQ'd because they both signed an incorrect score card. |
|
|
|
Post by Doyley on Oct 30, 2015 8:18:19 GMT -5
On your last point Bob the reason we allow late registration is that we want you to play - we have to be flexible since everyone has different schedules since this isn't a paid job like pro Golfers have. But once you tee off I don't think we need to continue that leniency through every other aspect of the tour save for glitches which we do our best to work around. I'll pose this question. Why is it when someone signs their scorecard and incorrectly submits a score that is lower than the API(honest mistake) they are automatically DQ'd, but when someone signs their scorecard and incorrectly submits a score that is higher than the API(again honest mistake) the higher score is allowed to stand? Both have signed incorrect scorecards. By standing with the RL feel and outcome..both players should be DQ'd because they both signed an incorrect score card. That's what they do in the PGA so we copied that. |
|
|
|
Post by ABU_Bear on Oct 30, 2015 12:37:27 GMT -5
I'll pose this question. Why is it when someone signs their scorecard and incorrectly submits a score that is lower than the API(honest mistake) they are automatically DQ'd, but when someone signs their scorecard and incorrectly submits a score that is higher than the API(again honest mistake) the higher score is allowed to stand? Both have signed incorrect scorecards. By standing with the RL feel and outcome..both players should be DQ'd because they both signed an incorrect score card. That's what they do in the PGA so we copied that. Fair enough. Thanks |
|
|
|
Post by feng187 on Oct 30, 2015 12:54:04 GMT -5
I hope you guys don't ever change the manual score entry it is great and really adds to the experience. It is a pity that people end up on the wrong side of the rules over inputting scores, I try to be as careful as possible and most times I input after I complete each round go make it easier. Hopefully I will never get a DQ over input scores but if I do I'll take it on the chin. I would have asked the same question as phyler had he not got there first, I always thought it was a DQ either way and didn't realise the PGA only DQ the lower score. I remember Padraig Harrington getting a DQ over a wrong score on the European tour a few years back when he had a 5 shot lead, so even the pros get it wrong with all the checks going on.
Edit: even worse it wasn't even a wrong he forgot to sign his card on the Thursday and was informed before he teed off on the Sunday with a 5 shot lead he was DQ'd.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2015 13:04:04 GMT -5
Yeah I thought what is the need at first but it's an excuse to check the site and leaderboard out aswell.
|
|
|
|
Post by typhon on Oct 30, 2015 21:14:05 GMT -5
Its kinda like at the end of the round you and your caddie need to go into the small booth and make sure you have correctly recorded your score and sign the card before turning it in. a player wouldn't just putt in on 18 and walk directly to his car and say oh the officials must have my score right?
|
|
