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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2015 15:16:54 GMT -5
average fairway width on the PGA Tourgood little article should be used as a STANDARD on TGCT ... GNCD has a distance tool ... no excuses for too narrow, or too wide of fairways. My findings is a 30 yard fairway is wide enough in most cases ... and for some of the best in game, maybe 25 yards wide ... a 30 yard fairway provides about an approximate +/- 3.25 degree angle off the center-line of the fairway, 265 yards off the tee-box. Arc tangent (side-opposite/side adjacent) *angle from the tee box typically <7 degrees wide *(calc in degrees, not Radian)
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2015 19:29:26 GMT -5
*note: it said nothing about straight shooters hitting a fairway >90% of the time ... even with a wide fairway ... LOL Seen a few tours recently where the leaders were 100% fairway and greater than 90% GIR ...  ... these guy's need 15 yard fairways and postage stamp greens ... |
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Post by mcbogga on Aug 30, 2015 20:49:17 GMT -5
average fairway width on the PGA Tourgood little article should be used as a STANDARD on TGCT ... GNCD has a distance tool ... no excuses for too narrow, or too wide of fairways. My findings is a 30 yard fairway is wide enough in most cases ... and for some of the best in game, maybe 25 yards wide ... a 30 yard fairway provides about an approximate +/- 3.25 degree angle off the center-line of the fairway, 265 yards off the tee-box. Arc tangent (side-opposite/side adjacent) *angle from the tee box typically <7 degrees wide *(calc in degrees, not Radian) Can't agree. The PGA pros are not swing robots hitting the exact yardage every time off the tee like our HB golfer. Also with the sticky fairways of TGC its much easier to hold a 30 yds TGC fairway than a tour spec concrete runway of the same width. I'd say at least 5 yds more narrow for tour use in TGC. Probably some of the courses that have gotten a lot of critisism for "narrow" fairways actually are the ones that simulate a tour set up the best. Cuyahoga comes to mind. But a good fairway trumps a narrow one every time. Sometimes they are the same, sometimes not. A strategic wide fairway is perfect where the ball needs to be placed properly for the pin location at hand can be very enjoyable. It all comes down to the real life design issue of designing a course that can be set up as a fair test for top level players and be an enjoyable challenge for the average golfer at the same time. Having all players hit the same distance is more of a curse than a blessing in this aspect. The fact that HB did not consider an easy way to narrow fairways is another. Its a pain to make a tour set up with narrower fairways, but in many cases that is exactly what would be needed. *edit - Saw your 100% comment. A good tour design should strive to get that down to at least 80% for the top and maybe 60-65% for the field. I think Ballylough may come out favorably on this. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2015 21:12:32 GMT -5
Did you read the article? My comment was 30 yards is more than wide enough for tgct ... 25yds probably for the better players. The article said pretty much the same thing, with major championship around 24 to 28 yards wide ... their percentages were a lot lower than those playing TGCT ... and anyone hitting 100% fairways and greens make you wonder ... I don't understand what you're disagreeing with ... |
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Post by mcbogga on Aug 30, 2015 21:48:47 GMT -5
Just looking for something to disagree with I guess...
I'd say 15-20yds should be tournament standard in TGC. Fine to provide a bit wider for hitting shorter than full drive. Then of course there is more than one way to skin the cat - slopes, run offs into bunkers, strategic placement for approaching a difficult green or tucked pin etc. could all warrant going wider. Even the occasional birdie-hole is not out of the question. But 25yds on average is way too wide for championship set-ups.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2015 23:02:14 GMT -5
Just looking for something to disagree with I guess... I'd say 15-20yds should be tournament standard in TGC. Fine to provide a bit wider for hitting shorter than full drive. Then of course there is more than one way to skin the cat - slopes, run offs into bunkers, strategic placement for approaching a difficult green or tucked pin etc. could all warrant going wider. Even the occasional birdie-hole is not out of the question. But 25yds on average is way too wide for championship set-ups. I can agree with this ... but, then I think we fall into the minority in this belief ... heck, I fall into the minority in just about everything course design related ... LOL I just saw a course that got approved as tour worthy and I almost had a cow ... I just condemned a course for having similarly shaped fairway bunkers (you know, click-n-forget insta-bunkers) ... and the course (IMHO) was semi-amateurishly done. Just from the pictures I was already shaking my head. But, I don't have the power to overturn another reviewers review. LOL .... |
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Post by mcbogga on Aug 30, 2015 23:47:11 GMT -5
Well - a vocal minority got HB to put the swing back to automatic 100%....
For the reviews it would be good if there is some consistency... Otherwise it's just a lottery who you get to review your course. I do agree with your reviewing standards. If its not a quality course in every aspect there are just too many better courses out there already...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2015 0:57:45 GMT -5
It depends what vocal minority are bending whose ear ... LOL
<wink wink>
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2015 4:38:26 GMT -5
In an ideal world they'd be a harder swing setting (more distance/thinner cone/more error - but that's another topic) so we can play in realistic sized fairways of 25yards+.
There's not so I understand why people make thinner fairways as life sized fairways are too easy to hit for the top players thus making it a putting contest.
What's ideal for the tour then?
CC - Realistic sized 25-35
Web - 20-30
PGA/Euro - 15-25
These sound good? Or still too forgiving?
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Post by boynsy on Aug 31, 2015 8:32:00 GMT -5
I don't really mind how wide or narrow a fairway is, as long as I feel like I have a reasonable chance to hit it (or at least a safe option). Very narrow fairways can be used to great effect at times, but 18 of them would suck the soul out of a golfer. Hitting from the rough isn't fun, but players do need to be punished for being too greedy or lazy.
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Post by fuzion on Aug 31, 2015 8:36:02 GMT -5
I would like to play on more realistic courses, so having really thin fairways isn't really where I want this game to go.
I think that some kind of extra swing mechanic is needed so that a) the top players don't hit 100% FIRs all the time; and b) more casual players can still hit a decent number of FIRs.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2015 9:01:43 GMT -5
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jeff
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TGCT Name: Jeff Dillman
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Post by jeff on Sept 10, 2015 10:24:20 GMT -5
I like the idea there- while I am in the suck tier of players and generally don't want the game to be any harder than it is, I feel like I hit too many FIR (GIR is more reasonable for sure). If I had the FIR in my real life game that I do in TGC I'd be a scratch golfer  . I would love some more variety in the swing as well as some more uncertainty other than the ball squirt that happens on occasion that bears no relationship to anything you've done. |
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Post by boynsy on Sept 11, 2015 17:01:53 GMT -5
I think part of the problem is the consistency of hitting the drive distance so perfect - you only have to worry about hitting the right line and you are unlikely to come up short or run through your target area. In real golf, players can and do miss the fairway long, short, left and right; mishits are also a real thing that they might have to contend with (more true for amateurs than pros). Basically, I think we should have an aiming circle rather than a pinpoint spot. Until then, I don't really know what the answer is, other than to say it is the same course for everyone and the best players will probably still end up winning.
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... these guy's need 15 yard fairways and postage stamp greens ...
. I would love some more variety in the swing as well as some more uncertainty other than the ball squirt that happens on occasion that bears no relationship to anything you've done.