REPOST FROM HB FORUM: Greens: General ideas and how I do 'em
Aug 15, 2015 10:25:23 GMT -5
edi_vedder likes this
Post by reebdoog on Aug 15, 2015 10:25:23 GMT -5
Not sure if you'll find this helpful or not...but figured I'd share. I'm working on a video or pictures...but my time is a bit limited at home.
I've noticed that some folks seem to struggle with creating greens that have interesting contours, multiple levels and pin placements, runoffs...all that jazz. I am not an expert on greens as I tend to just kinda do whatever and they turn out ok. HOWEVER... I figured I'd just give a few general ideas that work for me and a couple of techniques and MAYBE they could help someone out there.
Right now a lot of greens even on GOOD courses tend to do one of three things:
1) Slope off the sides all over
2) Have one or two slopes that cover the entire green and then put the pin on one so there are breaks from just about everywhere
3) put in a couple of "tiers" but many times with MASSIVE slopes that can send a ball all the way off the green
You can do all those and have a great course. That's fine...but there are some better ways in my opinion.
Some general thoughts on greens:
1) Most greens should have some kind of fairway attached to them allowing the player to be short (or sometimes long) and not go directly into the rough. You don't always have to have this but MOST of them should. If you find yourself just plopping greens down I the rough, tossing in bunkers and walking away all the time stop for a minute. Go back and see if there is a place where you could give the player a fairway option. The fairway does NOT need to be large nor does it need to be in play all the time. It coule be off to the side or go around a bunker or something purely for a visual effect. That's fine...but see if you can put one in. If not don't worry about it...but take the time to look.
2) Modern greens do not all have to run off the edges steeply. Back in the day greens were all created to allow water to run off them without pooling as the drainage wasn't as good and the grass was a little longer and uneven than it is now. You don't need the green to run off all the sides, especially with red slopes on all the edges.
3) yes there are greens out there where a putt from above the hole will have no chance of ever saying on the course. I get that... But this should be RARE and I don't even mean one hole per course I mean maybe one hole per 3 courses. Again just my opinion but if a LARGE portion of your green is basically UNPLAYABLE (read: you can't stay on it) then see if there may not be a better option (less green, more fairway? Less green more rough? Less green add a bunker?). With that being said the green CAN be used to punish a bad shot. If you have a section of green that will funnel you off or that pushes you away from the hole...that's fine...as long as it's not excessive.
With those things being said here's some things to consider when creating a green.
1) Green shape. The actual shape of a green can be pretty much anything. I personally try to give a green more character than just round or oblong though. I like to give them a couple of different "areas" that can be used. The other part of this though is green orientation. In other words what part of the green with face the player. Will it be shallow (front to back) but wide? Will it be long and narrow? Will it present a safe option and a section behind a bunker? It's important to remember from what angle the player will be approaching when deciding this.
2) Hazard areas. This does not mean only bunkers or water. This could be a runoff area or even a MOUND (yes a hazard can go up as well as down!). How will those hazard areas affect the green? If there is a mound...will it carry into the green a little bit? Will the green slope down to the runoff a little?
3) Where is the best landing place for the approach shot? With that in mind do you want the ball to need to run uphill to the pin or downhill to the pin? Should the green funnel the ball towards the hole or not? That can change the entire shape of the green.
Now, about actually making the green...this is the tricky bit for a lot of folks. Here's what I've been doing lately and I like the results.
1) once you've thought through the 3 points above you can just lay down the green however you lie It's not important that you put id down on flat land or anything like that. Just toss it down in the shape you generally want. Make sure to leave the room for hazards that you want to put down later.
2) now pick the height of the green. Don’t just take the default green shape (did you use a default shape only? Sigh…chicken…) and do a flatten. If you do it will simply flatten to the average height of the green. Instead get a round brush of some kind or some shape you can work with and find the height you want…then flatten. Move slightly and flatten again. Do this all the way around the green. I don’t care if you want a tiered green. It’s not time for that yet so shutup.
3) So your green is all leveled out. STOP! Before you go mucking around with it take your camera and look around the green. Did flattening it change anything interesting? Do you have a low spot or a runoff you didn’t before? Is it awesome? If so keep it! Do you have a nice little hill in front of one side of the green? Woah tiger! That might be the coolest hill ever! Don’t jack with it until you know you have too.
NOTE: Do not tie yourself to a pin position at this point. Go ahead and think “well probably over in this area” but don’t get ahead of yourself. Let the green kind of take shape on its own. Don’t push it.
4) Time for the major elevation changes. This one is really easy. Grab a circle (NOT the soft one NOR the SUPER sharp one) or whatever shape you like to use. All you’re going to do now is decide if the green is going to have a front to back or right to left or high low high or low high low. No detail work right now. Let’s assume for now that you want the green to be higher in the back right, a little lower in the middle and just slightly higher in the front left. Take your circle and size it to cover the back right section of the green. Use RAISE and bump it up. Let’s say go up like 8 inches. See if that’s high enough for you. It probably is…but if not go ahead and take it up a little more. Don’t go crazy here. Now take that same brush to the front left and do the same thing but instead of 8 inches just go like 5. No you’ll want to do more work with this brush. Don’t just stop. You now have three slightly different levels.
5) Time to figure out any other larger changes. This time get the soft round brush. Stick with the raise tool but look at the surrounding ground. Is there a rise or a hill near the green? My suggestion would be to carry that little rise/hill INTO the green. Not a ton but a little bit. Make it look natural if you can. Raise it just a little at a time from the outside of the green in towards the center making the brush smaller as you go. Don’t worry if you over do it a little. That’s ok for now. Do you want a slightly false front? Go ahead and lower the front edge just a little but NOT TOO MUCH. You don’t want a false front that is really like HALF the green. I see that all the time. Please don’t do it.
6) NOW is the time to put down any runoffs. If you are going to have one then put down the fairway or rough for the runoff now and shape the fairway/rough the way you want it. Don’t worry about the green sloping down or whatever. We’ll handle that in a minute. Just get the runoff slope you want. Go ahead and do the front or side of the green that meets the fairway here too. Just worry about the fairway. Don’t stress about the green.
7) Now that the runoffs/fairway entrance are sloped a bit go get your round normal brush again. Take it to the edge of the green near the runoffs and flatten the green edge again. Yes this will screw with the runoff a bit. That’s ok. It’s a process. But do NOT leave the edge of your green as a cliff face throwing balls down into the pit of doom. Level them out again.
8) Once you’ve done that you’ll have some fairly steep runoffs on the sides. That’s ok. Maybe you like them? *shrug* Leave them if you do. If you don’t then go get the super soft round brush and use the flatten tool. Leave the main part of the circle on the green and just let the soft edge run onto the fairway/rough. Flatten it. Do it a few times if you need to but once or twice should be enough. That will give you a nice runoff that will carry the ball away without being to drastic.
9) Ok then! Now… keep that soft round brush with the flatten tool. Take a look at your green. Chances are those slopes we put in early have already started to soften a bit with the rest of the work you’ve done…but if they still have edges that are too steep now is the time to flatten them a touch. Don’t make this brush too large or you’ll end up with LONG STEEP SLOPES that will make your greens crazy nightmares. Keep it fairly small and work a little at a time from the HIGH SIDE of the slope, not the low side. If you flatten from the low side you’ll usually end up with more steep slopes instead of gentler ones. Get those main slopes to the steepness you want. Now is ALSO the time to use the flatten brush to tone down any of the little hills or dips that we brought into the green from the surrounding terrain. If you need to tone them down do so now.
10) Now your green is in decent shape and you COULD probably leave it…but don’t just leave it. Take a minute now and put the pin down in a few spots and look at the slopes. Do you have room for your pin? Is it going to be on a knoll or anything weird? It’s ok if it’s a wedge into the hole…but anything more and you should limit the dangers to one side or maybe one and a half or something.
11) You do not want excessive flat areas in your green. So…if you have some get that soft round brush again and use the raise tool. Just take a look around the green. Does one area need to have a little more action? Give it a little bump. Probably like 3 inches should be enough at this point. Try to keep from having “bowls” near the edges of the green. This can go both ways. Bowl bottoms (runoff everywhere) or the bowl area itself (everything runs into it).
12) Now if you like what you see put your pin down. If you put it on a slight slope that’s ok because we gonna get evil now. Once your pin is down take that soft round guy again and do a little flattening. RIGHT on top of the hole. Don’t make it a big brush. Little. Like…small. Go ahead and do a little flattening. Around it too. Maybe just pick one side to do it on… If you need to add slope back in that’s ok you can always put it back or hit undo. What you MAY have just done is make the slope gentle enough that those 5 footers we all love? May not show any moving lines at all. BWAHAHAHAHHAA!!! Nice? Maybe not…but it’s a tool and now you know how to use it.
There’s a lot to making greens…hopefully some of this helps out. My method for creating them is NOT the only way to do it. It’s how I’ve been working and I think it allows me to have greens that fit into the ground they are on and still have some character.
One other tip as I say goodbye to this wall of text:
IF YOU ARE NOT COMFORTABLE WITH CREATING GREENS DO NOT USE SILLY FIRM SETTINGS. KEEP IT TONED DOWN! YOU CAN ALWAYS REALEASE A FAST VERSION LATER ONCE YOU SEE HOW IT GOES. Whew…
I've noticed that some folks seem to struggle with creating greens that have interesting contours, multiple levels and pin placements, runoffs...all that jazz. I am not an expert on greens as I tend to just kinda do whatever and they turn out ok. HOWEVER... I figured I'd just give a few general ideas that work for me and a couple of techniques and MAYBE they could help someone out there.
Right now a lot of greens even on GOOD courses tend to do one of three things:
1) Slope off the sides all over
2) Have one or two slopes that cover the entire green and then put the pin on one so there are breaks from just about everywhere
3) put in a couple of "tiers" but many times with MASSIVE slopes that can send a ball all the way off the green
You can do all those and have a great course. That's fine...but there are some better ways in my opinion.
Some general thoughts on greens:
1) Most greens should have some kind of fairway attached to them allowing the player to be short (or sometimes long) and not go directly into the rough. You don't always have to have this but MOST of them should. If you find yourself just plopping greens down I the rough, tossing in bunkers and walking away all the time stop for a minute. Go back and see if there is a place where you could give the player a fairway option. The fairway does NOT need to be large nor does it need to be in play all the time. It coule be off to the side or go around a bunker or something purely for a visual effect. That's fine...but see if you can put one in. If not don't worry about it...but take the time to look.
2) Modern greens do not all have to run off the edges steeply. Back in the day greens were all created to allow water to run off them without pooling as the drainage wasn't as good and the grass was a little longer and uneven than it is now. You don't need the green to run off all the sides, especially with red slopes on all the edges.
3) yes there are greens out there where a putt from above the hole will have no chance of ever saying on the course. I get that... But this should be RARE and I don't even mean one hole per course I mean maybe one hole per 3 courses. Again just my opinion but if a LARGE portion of your green is basically UNPLAYABLE (read: you can't stay on it) then see if there may not be a better option (less green, more fairway? Less green more rough? Less green add a bunker?). With that being said the green CAN be used to punish a bad shot. If you have a section of green that will funnel you off or that pushes you away from the hole...that's fine...as long as it's not excessive.
With those things being said here's some things to consider when creating a green.
1) Green shape. The actual shape of a green can be pretty much anything. I personally try to give a green more character than just round or oblong though. I like to give them a couple of different "areas" that can be used. The other part of this though is green orientation. In other words what part of the green with face the player. Will it be shallow (front to back) but wide? Will it be long and narrow? Will it present a safe option and a section behind a bunker? It's important to remember from what angle the player will be approaching when deciding this.
2) Hazard areas. This does not mean only bunkers or water. This could be a runoff area or even a MOUND (yes a hazard can go up as well as down!). How will those hazard areas affect the green? If there is a mound...will it carry into the green a little bit? Will the green slope down to the runoff a little?
3) Where is the best landing place for the approach shot? With that in mind do you want the ball to need to run uphill to the pin or downhill to the pin? Should the green funnel the ball towards the hole or not? That can change the entire shape of the green.
Now, about actually making the green...this is the tricky bit for a lot of folks. Here's what I've been doing lately and I like the results.
1) once you've thought through the 3 points above you can just lay down the green however you lie It's not important that you put id down on flat land or anything like that. Just toss it down in the shape you generally want. Make sure to leave the room for hazards that you want to put down later.
2) now pick the height of the green. Don’t just take the default green shape (did you use a default shape only? Sigh…chicken…) and do a flatten. If you do it will simply flatten to the average height of the green. Instead get a round brush of some kind or some shape you can work with and find the height you want…then flatten. Move slightly and flatten again. Do this all the way around the green. I don’t care if you want a tiered green. It’s not time for that yet so shutup.
3) So your green is all leveled out. STOP! Before you go mucking around with it take your camera and look around the green. Did flattening it change anything interesting? Do you have a low spot or a runoff you didn’t before? Is it awesome? If so keep it! Do you have a nice little hill in front of one side of the green? Woah tiger! That might be the coolest hill ever! Don’t jack with it until you know you have too.
NOTE: Do not tie yourself to a pin position at this point. Go ahead and think “well probably over in this area” but don’t get ahead of yourself. Let the green kind of take shape on its own. Don’t push it.
4) Time for the major elevation changes. This one is really easy. Grab a circle (NOT the soft one NOR the SUPER sharp one) or whatever shape you like to use. All you’re going to do now is decide if the green is going to have a front to back or right to left or high low high or low high low. No detail work right now. Let’s assume for now that you want the green to be higher in the back right, a little lower in the middle and just slightly higher in the front left. Take your circle and size it to cover the back right section of the green. Use RAISE and bump it up. Let’s say go up like 8 inches. See if that’s high enough for you. It probably is…but if not go ahead and take it up a little more. Don’t go crazy here. Now take that same brush to the front left and do the same thing but instead of 8 inches just go like 5. No you’ll want to do more work with this brush. Don’t just stop. You now have three slightly different levels.
5) Time to figure out any other larger changes. This time get the soft round brush. Stick with the raise tool but look at the surrounding ground. Is there a rise or a hill near the green? My suggestion would be to carry that little rise/hill INTO the green. Not a ton but a little bit. Make it look natural if you can. Raise it just a little at a time from the outside of the green in towards the center making the brush smaller as you go. Don’t worry if you over do it a little. That’s ok for now. Do you want a slightly false front? Go ahead and lower the front edge just a little but NOT TOO MUCH. You don’t want a false front that is really like HALF the green. I see that all the time. Please don’t do it.
6) NOW is the time to put down any runoffs. If you are going to have one then put down the fairway or rough for the runoff now and shape the fairway/rough the way you want it. Don’t worry about the green sloping down or whatever. We’ll handle that in a minute. Just get the runoff slope you want. Go ahead and do the front or side of the green that meets the fairway here too. Just worry about the fairway. Don’t stress about the green.
7) Now that the runoffs/fairway entrance are sloped a bit go get your round normal brush again. Take it to the edge of the green near the runoffs and flatten the green edge again. Yes this will screw with the runoff a bit. That’s ok. It’s a process. But do NOT leave the edge of your green as a cliff face throwing balls down into the pit of doom. Level them out again.
8) Once you’ve done that you’ll have some fairly steep runoffs on the sides. That’s ok. Maybe you like them? *shrug* Leave them if you do. If you don’t then go get the super soft round brush and use the flatten tool. Leave the main part of the circle on the green and just let the soft edge run onto the fairway/rough. Flatten it. Do it a few times if you need to but once or twice should be enough. That will give you a nice runoff that will carry the ball away without being to drastic.
9) Ok then! Now… keep that soft round brush with the flatten tool. Take a look at your green. Chances are those slopes we put in early have already started to soften a bit with the rest of the work you’ve done…but if they still have edges that are too steep now is the time to flatten them a touch. Don’t make this brush too large or you’ll end up with LONG STEEP SLOPES that will make your greens crazy nightmares. Keep it fairly small and work a little at a time from the HIGH SIDE of the slope, not the low side. If you flatten from the low side you’ll usually end up with more steep slopes instead of gentler ones. Get those main slopes to the steepness you want. Now is ALSO the time to use the flatten brush to tone down any of the little hills or dips that we brought into the green from the surrounding terrain. If you need to tone them down do so now.
10) Now your green is in decent shape and you COULD probably leave it…but don’t just leave it. Take a minute now and put the pin down in a few spots and look at the slopes. Do you have room for your pin? Is it going to be on a knoll or anything weird? It’s ok if it’s a wedge into the hole…but anything more and you should limit the dangers to one side or maybe one and a half or something.
11) You do not want excessive flat areas in your green. So…if you have some get that soft round brush again and use the raise tool. Just take a look around the green. Does one area need to have a little more action? Give it a little bump. Probably like 3 inches should be enough at this point. Try to keep from having “bowls” near the edges of the green. This can go both ways. Bowl bottoms (runoff everywhere) or the bowl area itself (everything runs into it).
12) Now if you like what you see put your pin down. If you put it on a slight slope that’s ok because we gonna get evil now. Once your pin is down take that soft round guy again and do a little flattening. RIGHT on top of the hole. Don’t make it a big brush. Little. Like…small. Go ahead and do a little flattening. Around it too. Maybe just pick one side to do it on… If you need to add slope back in that’s ok you can always put it back or hit undo. What you MAY have just done is make the slope gentle enough that those 5 footers we all love? May not show any moving lines at all. BWAHAHAHAHHAA!!! Nice? Maybe not…but it’s a tool and now you know how to use it.
There’s a lot to making greens…hopefully some of this helps out. My method for creating them is NOT the only way to do it. It’s how I’ve been working and I think it allows me to have greens that fit into the ground they are on and still have some character.
One other tip as I say goodbye to this wall of text:
IF YOU ARE NOT COMFORTABLE WITH CREATING GREENS DO NOT USE SILLY FIRM SETTINGS. KEEP IT TONED DOWN! YOU CAN ALWAYS REALEASE A FAST VERSION LATER ONCE YOU SEE HOW IT GOES. Whew…
