Some small observation and advice on greens
Jul 18, 2015 2:34:08 GMT -5
fuzion, justamush, and 3 more like this
Post by mcbogga on Jul 18, 2015 2:34:08 GMT -5
Having played quite a few fictional courses I would like to offer some observations and advice from the view of realism.
1. Green size. PGA tour greens average about 6000 sq.ft. That is about 20*30yds. Plenty of smaller ones and bigger ones of course, but that is the average. Pebble Beach averages 4500 sq. feet. Thats 18*26 yds. The full grid is 24:24 yds. Many fictional courses are made with gigantic greens... Use the measuring tool and keep those greens realistic. That way they play a bit tougher with medium conditions as well. When I made Tobo I often had to be strategic where I put down the mimimum size green as many greens are narrower or shorter than the minimum one in places.
2. Pin placement - usually far too easy. You don't need crazy slopes to challenge the players, you just need to tuck some pins. 6-6-6 (six easy, six medium and six hard) is a good rule of thumb. But many courses have 6 easy, 6 easier and 6 gimmes. One grid square is 1 yard = 3 feet. That means that three squares is plenty of space if tucking the pin behind a bunker or next to a tier. Next to a tier two squares are doable even. It looks really close, but it isn't. Don't give the players a wedge into the green and then stick the pin in the center.... Of course - dont give the players a 5wood into the green and tuck the pin two paces behind a bunker on a par 4 (if its a par five - tuck that sucker and make the players think a bit). But - remember that pin placement will make or break your course. I had Tobo play more than 4 shots more difficult from day one to day two on the euro tour due to pin placements alone.
3. Sticky fairways. This game has very sticky fairways. Therefore the run off design needs to be slightly exaggerated. If you have a run off, playtest to make sure the ball actually runs off into it. Sometimes the only way is to slope the green to give the ball some speed. Unfortunate, but it's better that the course plays real than that it looks real. Same with green bunkers. A fringe of rough looks great but acts as a bail-out fro the player and give the bunker no traffic. The solution is to just exaggerate the slope a bit and make the edge of the green give the ball some speed. Growing Frog is a prime example of how this should be done. Stunning course, that.
4. Run-ups. For firmer courses or shallow greens where players have long irons in - there is nothing wrong with having the correct shot being to land in the fairway and bounce or roll onto the green. There is a "must hit the green and hold" crowd on here. They are wrong. There must be a feasible and clear way to hold the green - but needing to hit it and hold - no. That is just a misinterpretation of the American target golf concept. Creative run ups can take a course from good to spectacular.
5. Most greens IRL slope back to front in order to receive and hold low approach shots from higher handicaps. This is a good rule of thumb for TGC greens as well. Allows for a smaller surface still accepting longer clubs into it or accommodates firmer settings. Sure - there are 490yds par 4s with greens running away - but they are usually the signature hole of the course in that case. Don't make 8 of them on your course. Tricking up the 330yds par 4 with a ridge and then running away is fine, but be careful with the long iron approaches. I made 6th on Tobo slope towards the player until mid way where it changes and starts running away. On day one it looks like the shot is to land slightly beyond the center-line of the green, but that will make the 3i or 4i run off the back. The play is to land it 5 yards shorter than it seems to get it to feed down to the pin. The issue with that is that there is a false front as well and if you are a bit short that will kill the roll and give you a 40 foot putt Think about the approach options and match the slopes to the approach club and make the player THINK. See too much of "this should be a cool green" or "this looks good" where the absolute key to designing a green complex is how long the approach is and from what angle its coming in. The TGC designers are lucky since all the players hit the same distance.
Just some friendly advice. And I hate dogma in golf design - so all of the above "rules" are there to be broken....
1. Green size. PGA tour greens average about 6000 sq.ft. That is about 20*30yds. Plenty of smaller ones and bigger ones of course, but that is the average. Pebble Beach averages 4500 sq. feet. Thats 18*26 yds. The full grid is 24:24 yds. Many fictional courses are made with gigantic greens... Use the measuring tool and keep those greens realistic. That way they play a bit tougher with medium conditions as well. When I made Tobo I often had to be strategic where I put down the mimimum size green as many greens are narrower or shorter than the minimum one in places.
2. Pin placement - usually far too easy. You don't need crazy slopes to challenge the players, you just need to tuck some pins. 6-6-6 (six easy, six medium and six hard) is a good rule of thumb. But many courses have 6 easy, 6 easier and 6 gimmes. One grid square is 1 yard = 3 feet. That means that three squares is plenty of space if tucking the pin behind a bunker or next to a tier. Next to a tier two squares are doable even. It looks really close, but it isn't. Don't give the players a wedge into the green and then stick the pin in the center.... Of course - dont give the players a 5wood into the green and tuck the pin two paces behind a bunker on a par 4 (if its a par five - tuck that sucker and make the players think a bit). But - remember that pin placement will make or break your course. I had Tobo play more than 4 shots more difficult from day one to day two on the euro tour due to pin placements alone.
3. Sticky fairways. This game has very sticky fairways. Therefore the run off design needs to be slightly exaggerated. If you have a run off, playtest to make sure the ball actually runs off into it. Sometimes the only way is to slope the green to give the ball some speed. Unfortunate, but it's better that the course plays real than that it looks real. Same with green bunkers. A fringe of rough looks great but acts as a bail-out fro the player and give the bunker no traffic. The solution is to just exaggerate the slope a bit and make the edge of the green give the ball some speed. Growing Frog is a prime example of how this should be done. Stunning course, that.
4. Run-ups. For firmer courses or shallow greens where players have long irons in - there is nothing wrong with having the correct shot being to land in the fairway and bounce or roll onto the green. There is a "must hit the green and hold" crowd on here. They are wrong. There must be a feasible and clear way to hold the green - but needing to hit it and hold - no. That is just a misinterpretation of the American target golf concept. Creative run ups can take a course from good to spectacular.
5. Most greens IRL slope back to front in order to receive and hold low approach shots from higher handicaps. This is a good rule of thumb for TGC greens as well. Allows for a smaller surface still accepting longer clubs into it or accommodates firmer settings. Sure - there are 490yds par 4s with greens running away - but they are usually the signature hole of the course in that case. Don't make 8 of them on your course. Tricking up the 330yds par 4 with a ridge and then running away is fine, but be careful with the long iron approaches. I made 6th on Tobo slope towards the player until mid way where it changes and starts running away. On day one it looks like the shot is to land slightly beyond the center-line of the green, but that will make the 3i or 4i run off the back. The play is to land it 5 yards shorter than it seems to get it to feed down to the pin. The issue with that is that there is a false front as well and if you are a bit short that will kill the roll and give you a 40 foot putt Think about the approach options and match the slopes to the approach club and make the player THINK. See too much of "this should be a cool green" or "this looks good" where the absolute key to designing a green complex is how long the approach is and from what angle its coming in. The TGC designers are lucky since all the players hit the same distance.
Just some friendly advice. And I hate dogma in golf design - so all of the above "rules" are there to be broken....
