Would appreciate feedback on my new course

[norselaed]

I have published a beta version - Aut-beta22 - of a new course I have been working on and would appreciate any feedback anybody might have. It is a woodland type course set among some bluffs and lakes in the autumn theme.  I am trying for a course (without tricking out the greens) where on at least some of the holes, when you card a par you feel good about it. There are a couple of par 4's where against a very high wind they are borderline unreachable, but that happens on real courses too. I considered this course to be about 90% complete and would especially like input on any sculpting issues on the fairways and greens.  I think I have found all the driver landing zones where you land near the middle of the fairway, but are still kicked into the rough and tamed them down. I have tamed down the greens, so I believe they can be played at a higher speed then the default 143 setting. I also tried to make my bunkers better by doing more micro sculpting around them, so let me know how I did. Of course, if you notice any obvious errors like tees or cart paths that I missed flattening or any anything else I would appreciate you pointing them out before I do my final publish. Thanks in advance and have a good day.

[bubbadave]

OK, here is my assessment. I hope others critique your course too.

Wind Speed — High, 15 MPH
Wind Direction — West
Firmness: Firm/Firm
Green Speed — Default - 143
Black Tees, Pin Location 3, Morning, Light Cloud
Hole 1: Narrow fairway, but I like it. Pin location has no problems. Overall, a good opening hole.
Hole 2: Second hole in a row where there were trees partially blocking views.
Hole 3: Nice set-up. My only concern is I hit my tee shot too far right onto the fairway and couldn’t see the green from there.
Hole 4: This is a bit long for a par-3 with a green that small and that amount of danger (bunkers and the lake). That said, I think it’s challenging.
Hole 5: Nice layout. My concern is the excessive deep slope into the water to the right of the green and fairway. It just looks unnatural. My second shot also ended in that bunker between the green and water. The severity of that slope made it near impossible to get out of the bunker.
Hole 6: Narrow fairway. I’m not sure it’s conducive with the length of the hole. I’m a short hitter (Driver 281), so when I see 500+ yard par 4, I know I have to wallop the ball to hit the green in two. Narrow fairways make that an extremely difficult task even if I hit a perfect. I did hit a perfect and ended in a bunker.
Hole 7: Nice par 3.
Hole 8: I like this hole. Two small things. There is a lone bush along the cart path ahead of the tees on the left. It looks out of place. Also, I might continue the tree line on the left down to the fork in the cart path.
Hole 9: I like this hole. There is one bunker that isn’t visible from where I was (263 yards out) on the fairway on the right. Truthfully, because it is sandwiched between two other bunkers there, I don’t know if it must be seen. The reason being is players will avoid that side at all costs anyway.
Hole 10: This is a gorgeous hole.
Hole 11: From the black tee, there is a red tree slightly blocking the sight line. I would get rid of it. The bunker behind the green is invisible. I would get rid of that too. I don’t think it’s necessary.
Hole 12: This is another long par-3 that has a smallish green and a lot of danger around it. Why the fairways to the front left? I don’t like the idea of a bailout area like that on a par-3. If it completely fronted the green from the direction of the tee box, it would make more sense.
Hole 13: Nice hole, but holy hell is that green huge.
Hole 14: Nice pr-3. Small greens work on shorter par-3s because the loft of the club allows the player to drop it down near the pin without a whole lot of rollout. On your longer par-3s the less loft, the more rollout which is why smaller greens are much too hazardous.
Hole 15: Shorter players are going to hate this hole with anything other than a helping wind. I took out driver and my 3 wood and still couldn’t make the green.
Hole 16: There is a bush 130 yards in front of the black tees that is just enough of an obstruction that you might get dinged for it. Boy this is mighty long, but I like the layout.
Hole 17: I really like this hole. As far as I am concerned this is the signature hole of the course.
Hole 18: Decent track, but it suffers from the same problem as hole 5. Although the lead up to the green is fine, the excessive sloping and bunker looks unnatural.
Overall, I had an enjoyable round. Shot -2. That said, here are a few things I noticed that you might want to look at.

• The flower planting around black tee-box numbers is jarring and looks very unnatural. Mix and match and make a more natural look. You might move them around and make some smaller, some larger, etc.
• The bunkering needs more character. Although I like your shapes, they are all like bathtubs. Sculpting them with slopes, high and low areas will go a long way to making them pop.
• I can’t tell if you did any auto-planting. I love auto-planting trees because I feel it gives me a more random look and I can always clear trees. I won’t ever auto-plant anything but trees, but this is one of my pet peeves with the designer. With those beautiful auto-planted trees comes the ugly auto-planted bushes. I end up spending an hour or more getting rid of them. I would slow walk your course and just start tearing out some of the bushes that you didn’t personally place.
• Flatten your tee-boxes. They don’t have an impact on your tee shot but a lot of people want the tee boxes flat.

You have a good eye for design and planting. I really like the shapes of your tee boxes and bunkers.

[norselaed]

Thank you bubbadave for your critique of my beta course. It is nice to have someone else's perspective since I tend to get some tunnel vision going after working on a course for dozens of hours. I agree with many of the things you pointed out and had been considering some changes along those lines myself.

The more I looked at those 12' deep bunkers on 4 and 5 and 18 the less I liked them. I kinda like the shape and flat bottom look, but I think I need to raise them up 5 or 6 feet.

The more I looked at my hole sign area by the back tee the less I liked those too. That was kinda a tribute to the ladies gardening club who planted the tee boxes back on the little 9 hole course I played as a kid and I thought they looked nice. However, mine as you said, are a little jarring.

I also agree with your assessment on holes 4, 6 and 15. I knew they were tough especially against the wind. When I started this course I knew I wanted a wooded autumn type of course with some colorful trees and bushes. So I googled autumn courses and found one in Illinois had the right look and was described as a long and tough course with narrow fairways and well placed bunkers, so I kinda took that as my inspiration and made a longer tough course with narrow fairways. It isn't anywhere near a real course recreation, but I did take a lot of the hole lengths from their scorecard. Hole 6 isn't quite as bad as hole 15, but it is a very challenging hole into the wind. Hole 15 I have been thinking about shortening it about 10yds and dropping the 37' height differential down to about 25' to make it a little more accessible for shorter hitters while still remaining challenging. Hole 12 I hadn't really noticed, but I think your right that the bailout area is kinda stupid over to the left as it is the same size and distance as the center of the green, so why ever deliberately go over there. I will think about that for awhile.

I have to agree that my bunkers needs a lot of work. I try to get the bottoms somewhat flat so you have a somewhat level shot, but that gives you the bathtub look. I also tried to make the front lips higher to make their visibility better and make them tougher to get out of, but I might of over done that on hole 3. I need to find a course that has great bunkers and see if I can study and replicate those.

This is the third course I am planning to publish and I always go with 100% auto-generate on trees, plants, and grasses to save on object meter as it is not hard to remove what you don't like. Although, on this course I cut the plants auto-generate down to 25% because there were just so many of them. I was going for an open wooded area with plants and tall grasses scattered around, but I also don't like some of the plants and small trees and my trim a little bit more.

I am curious as to what you mean by flatten my tee boxes. Were some of my tees not flat or are you referring to the fact that I tend to place different tees on different tiers with the front tees lower then the ones behind them?

Thanks again for your critique. It is very helpful. Have a good one.

[bubbadave]

Tee boxes themselves. I use K+M, so when I depress the "Shift" key it shows me the beaded lie of the ball wherever it is (except bunkers). You can do that on the tee boxes to see if they are flat. It's more a pet peeve and, IIRC, something reviewers look at.

[norselaed]

Ok...thanks I will check and flatten them again. Thanks again for your input.