Looking for Playtesting and Feedback - TD202403

[stiffler31]

I am nearing the end of completion on my first course and I was hoping to get some outside playtesting and feedback. My goal is to have a course that potentially could be Tour Approved (long shot, I know).



The beta version of the course is published as TD202403.



When I finally publish the live version it will be named "The Duel" in tribute to the numerous duel's fought in Kentucky.



I have spent over 300 hundred hours on this course (a lot of trial and error) and I want to give it my best shot for the official review.



Any and all feedback is welcome and appreciated. I was lucky enough to have Crazy Canuck do a beta test on this course a while ago and I made a bunch of changes based on his feedback.



Below are some screenshots of the course. The planting around the tee boxes is based heavily on a course in Sandestin, FL named The Raven but this course is set in the rolling hills of Northern Kentucky.



Thank you in advance!

You hopefully will notice the split fairway and multiple greens on hole 1, shaped like Alexander Hamilton and Aaron Burr (too bad they dueled in Virginia). 


Hole 1 tee


Hole 1 approach


Hole 4 tee


Hole 6 green



Hole 7 tee


Hole 8 tee


Hole 9 approach



Hole 11 tee



Hole 11 approach



Hole 14 tee


Hole 14 approach


Hole 15 tee


Hole 16 tee


Hole 16 approach


Hole 18 tee

[fergdawg]

Hey! I just played this one on default, pin 2. Wasn't sure what to expect ...

But it's great! I do have some notes. Overall, greens etc are good. Good placement for pin 2. I might lose the mow lines on the fairways, and maybe try out some more dynamic lighting.

Specific things:

Hole 1: Love that sign! It's epic. Good job. I might flatten out the side of the hill with the trees on it. It looks a little jarry. Plus that will slope the fairway off to the right off the drive which will add some color to the game right off the first.

Hole 6: It's a neat Hole. You might want to consider giving some option for hitting a risky driver. People like that and will be lured into the trap, trust me.

Hole 10: Consider making the hill higher so that you can't just bomb a driver over it. I did and there isn't much penalty for doing so. Also, reviewers don't tend to like straight 90 degree doglegs.

Hole 13: Nice idea with the split fairway. Only issue is that there's not a tangible benefit to going left or right, other than that left seems to camber toward the bunkers. I know there's a bunker in front of the green, but the hole is too short for it to really matter. I went right anyway and had a sand wedge in. Would have likely been the same result if I had gone left, so that bunker wouldn't have worried me at all.

Hole 14: Holed out on my second. The bunkers are a nice visual but aren't in play at all. It doesn't really matter, they can just be visual bunkers.

Hole 15: Not the biggest fan of island greens. But that's just me.

Hole 16: Consider adding some trouble for the second shot. It's good to have the drive be tricky, but it's better to force the player to think on the second.

Hole 17: Nifty little Biarritz. I don't mind em, but that sentiment is not shared by many!

Hole 18: This is a hole! Danger off both the drive and second shot. Short par five, but can play multiple different ways. Love it.

Overall, these are just things to think about. You may not agree with some or all of my opinions, and that's just fine. Really liked it a lot. Tag me when you publish.

[stiffler31]

fergdawg THANK YOU SO MUCH for playing my course and providing me with some fantastic and detailed feedback. I truly appreciate it!

I almost completely removed the mowing pattern on the fairway and it looks a lot better. Lighting is always difficult for me and I have a long way to go before I feel like I know what I'm doing. 

Hole 1: You mentioned the trees on the hill. Are you referring to the trees between the split fairway (center line off the tee) or the trees between right of the hole and the clubhouse? 

Hole 6: 95% of the time I am going for that green or greenside bunker. Based on your feedback I moved all three tee boxes 10 yards closer to the green (around 295). The hole was meant to be drivable in certain wind conditions, and the bunker just off the water was an option in a slightly hurting wind. I think by moving the tee boxes up it will bring the back bunkers into play for slightly hurting winds and it should bring the hillside bunkers into play downwind. 

Hole 10: I have heard a few people remark that the reviewers do not like the sharp doglegs. However, I am hopeful that I can provide rationale and that they can appreciate (or at least overlook) why I setup the hole in this manner. I chose a 90 dogleg because it allows the player to either hit driver near the green (or into trees/bunkers) or the player can hit anything from 4i to 3w (200 to 285) from the tee and still have a PW-SW into the green that runs away/downhill (depending on angle). Being in the fairway is a must. If the player rips driver and leaves it on the hill they are usually at best going to make a 4. If they play the hole more  conventionally from the fairway and they have a decent approach they should get a very good look at 3. The reward for hitting a longer club off the tee (without going for the green) is that their approach will be landing into more of an upslope/backstop (just ever so slightly) on the green. I wrestled with the idea of having OB on top of the hill to simulate a lost ball, but I removed that from my current version. I really hope this hole design does not push the entire course down a level in the reviewers mind. I really enjoyed making this hole and I hope it is played as I envisioned. After reading your notes I did add a few more trees on the hills to narrow the line for players going for the green. 


Hole 13: I totally agree about the split fairway and I removed the left fairway. This hole is kind of blah/meh, but it provides a breather between two difficult holes. 

Hole 14: That is a heck of a 2 on that hole. I have probably played it 100 times and not done that. The bunkers are much more of a factor when the wind is blowing. When the hole is downwind they are almost entirely scenic, but any type of hurting wind and should be very much in play, especially from the middle tees. 

Hole 16: In regards to making the hole more difficult how about a pine tree or two to the left and/or right of the bunker as shown in this screen shot? The ball should typically be passing below the bushy areas, but it provides a visually intimidating look to the approach when going for it in two and not be a factor if playing this as a three shot hole. At a minimum it might make a player try to shape something in there instead of a stock shot. I play tested this about 20 times and never hit the tree, but it looks scary as hell the first few times. 



Hole 17: I changed from a Biarritz to a recreation of hole 16 at Sleepy Hollow (a recommendation from my buddy that I caddied for last summer at Sleepy Hollow in the US Mid-am). His comment was "a square green goes with any style of course". 

Apr 5, 2024 15:03:27 GMT -5 fergdawg said:

Hey! I just played this one on default, pin 2. Wasn't sure what to expect ...

But it's great! I do have some notes. Overall, greens etc are good. Good placement for pin 2. I might lose the mow lines on the fairways, and maybe try out some more dynamic lighting.

Specific things:

Hole 1: Love that sign! It's epic. Good job. I might flatten out the side of the hill with the trees on it. It looks a little jarry. Plus that will slope the fairway off to the right off the drive which will add some color to the game right off the first.

Hole 6: It's a neat Hole. You might want to consider giving some option for hitting a risky driver. People like that and will be lured into the trap, trust me.

Hole 10: Consider making the hill higher so that you can't just bomb a driver over it. I did and there isn't much penalty for doing so. Also, reviewers don't tend to like straight 90 degree doglegs.

Hole 13: Nice idea with the split fairway. Only issue is that there's not a tangible benefit to going left or right, other than that left seems to camber toward the bunkers. I know there's a bunker in front of the green, but the hole is too short for it to really matter. I went right anyway and had a sand wedge in. Would have likely been the same result if I had gone left, so that bunker wouldn't have worried me at all.

Hole 14: Holed out on my second. The bunkers are a nice visual but aren't in play at all. It doesn't really matter, they can just be visual bunkers.

Hole 15: Not the biggest fan of island greens. But that's just me.

Hole 16: Consider adding some trouble for the second shot. It's good to have the drive be tricky, but it's better to force the player to think on the second.

Hole 17: Nifty little Biarritz. I don't mind em, but that sentiment is not shared by many!

Hole 18: This is a hole! Danger off both the drive and second shot. Short par five, but can play multiple different ways. Love it.

Overall, these are just things to think about. You may not agree with some or all of my opinions, and that's just fine. Really liked it a lot. Tag me when you publish.

[fergdawg]

Hey @stiffler! Cheers and no worries. I liked it a lot, and I hope that came across in the feedback!

Hole 1 I was referring to the hill in the middle that splits two fairways.

Hole 10, I get what you're doing there. Maybe give my course Dewdney Players Society a run. I did a similar thing on hole 7, but I raised the hill up such that the only way to get over it is to hit a high booming fade with a driver or hit a three wood and risk going into the water. Maybe seeing it will help drive the point home. You just don't want people to mindlessly hit a driver and take what they get. Perhaps having a shot that goes through the green be punished (eg water or ob behind the green) but that's just a suggestion.

16, yes you're on the right track here. I would do one or the other. Pinching the 2nd shot might have the same effect.

Make those improvements and it'll definitely be approved. Not gonna promise tour worthy, as I have yet to achieve that high bar!

[fergdawg]

I like the left of the bunker for the tree. Maybe put a couple of varied ones, like a little Grove.

For lighting, I'd suggest going either later (4 pm ish) or earlier (8 am ish). Just play around with it. One thing you may find helpful is figure out which way the majority of the holes go and have those holes going into the light as much as possible. Cheers!

[fergdawg]

Also, if you have a minute, try out my playtest beta for a new course called OLM_Test1. I've yet to receive any feedback.

Haven't finished the town off 14 yet, and the planting isn't quite there. Just lemme know what you think overall. It's always helpful to have a second or third pair of eyes on a project!

Cheers!