WIP-would appreciate critiques of beta version of my course

[norselaed]

I am a relatively new member here who found these forums a few months ago and thought it was an excellent way of getting another opinion or several on a second course I am building. The beta name is SRbeta2 and I would like any feedback I can get on the playability, appearance, and any mistakes you might spot. I think of it as substantially done, but I still have 13% left on the object meter so I may add a few things or correct any areas that you guys point out to me. I also have a few questions I am hoping some more experienced designers might know the answers to.

Is there a way to determine the default wind direction and speed as well the tees and pins to be used when you publish it or is it just what ever the computer decides when someone loads the game? I know you can go into the settings and change them each time it is loaded, but I wondered if there was a way of setting those when I publish the final version?

Is am I wrong, or is it very difficult to set the out-of-bounds areas where you want them?  No matter what brush I used it just wouldn't line up exactly along my fence line. Am I missing something, is there some trick to getting it to line up right?

Thanks in advance to any one who can review my course or answer my questions.

[albinobluesheep]

Dec 19, 2023 0:51:21 GMT -5 norselaed said:

Is there a way to determine the default wind direction and speed as well the tees and pins to be used when you publish it or is it just what ever the computer decides when someone loads the game? I know you can go into the settings and change them each time it is loaded, but I wondered if there was a way of setting those when I publish the final version?

Nope, sadly it's relatively random. I set the wind in a specific direction in the "play test" settings right before publishing, and I thought it was setting a primary direction/intensity and what it played as just Varried off that slightly, but others have said it doesn't matter unless you set them specifically when you are starting a round.

Dec 19, 2023 0:51:21 GMT -5 norselaed said:

No matter what brush I used it just wouldn't line up exactly along my fence line. Am I missing something, is there some trick to getting it to line up right?

yeah, it's pretty annoying, just gotta move slowly and place a bunch of them if you want to line it up with a fence. I think the fuzzier brushes have less jagged edge, but are also more offset from the "brush" as you are placing it, where as the "hard edge" brushes are more accurate tot he edge of the brush, but the Out Of Bounds its creates is less smooth.

Just did a fly over and started the first few holes (up to the 7th), you really do NOT need to add OB to all the water. Water is a hazard anyway. You are just forcing the player to re-tee instead of the possibility of them having a fairway to drop in if they got lucky with where the hole was, and adding a lot of work for your self. Just let the player hit it into the water and the game will make it a hazard.

Played 18 and it seemed plenty playable. The two "C" shaped par 3s both seemed a bit repetitious, maybe change one of them. beyond that I wont comment on hole design since I'm a novice architect my self...and I played from the forward tees by accident. Played a few holes from the tips and the bunkering made a lot more sense.

[sroel908]

Hi norselaed...just played a round at your SRbeta2 course. Played Pin 3, black tees, default conditions.

Hole 1: view from the tee is cluttered a bit. I'd remove the rocks and planting that are straight ahead of you, before you reach the fairway. It's also kind of odd to have all the planting around, yet the cart barn is visible to the right. The cart path is also a bit intrusive, but it's not too bad. It just kind of adds to the total amount of "stuff" down the sightline. The bush to the left of the green is kind of unnecessary in my mind, too.

Hole 3: the cliffs beyond the green are very sheer, and the harsh sculpting make the texture look unnatural. I'm not sure how many would see this area, but it seems it could use more rock work, some planting, and some more gradual sculpting to make it look more natural.

Hole 4: you have OB coming onto the green here that needs to be deleted. The rocks look better beyond the green...this is how Hole 3's cliffs should look, too. The design of this hole is a bit odd. I don't know if I'd never lay up here, since any shot with driver is going to have you up near the green. There is some danger with the cliffs nearby, but I just feel there's not a reason to give it a go, as laying up means you're still 150 or so away with OB and the hazard still around when hitting from that angle.

Hole 6: I like the look and feel of this hole. However, there's yellow in the 9-box grid around the hole location here on default 146 green speeds. This would limit any use on a tour or in society, as the green speed for this pin set could not be turned up at all. You may want to smooth out the slopes and keep them from being this bold around the cup.

Hole 7: not sure of this design. Hitting to the right of the centerline means you are totally blocked out from seeing the green or even the lay up zone. And the fairway to the left of the centerline hazard is almost too narrow that any tee shot to find it will run into rough. As it is, I went left, and found the light rough with a perfect tempo, 100% tee shot. But at least I had a look at the green and could run the ball up to near the hole location. I took an unplayable and went down the right. I was in the fairway and had just 190 in on my next shot, but the rocks are right in the line of play, and I'd have to hit a pretty good fade to get around them. I like the idea of giving the player options and such, but the rocks being this in play actually kind of take an option away...I'd go to the left every time to avoid having to deal with the rocks, and to get a clean look at the green.

Hole 11: it felt like this green may be a bit too small and have too many colorful slopes for a longer, 209-yard par-3. I hit the ball to the middle of the green between the red slope areas, and it just kept rolling and rolling. And since there's yellow-to-red slopes past the hole location, the ball rolled into light rough beyond the green. More gentle sloping and a bit more room to work with might be nice here.

Hole 15: this is kind of a repeat of Hole 4 - a very short par-4 that's a 90-degree dogleg to the right, and one I'm going to try to go for the green each time I play it. There's a huge tree that comes into play if you take 3-wood off the tee and lay up. Going at the green avoids that, and gets you right up next to the green even if you don't drive it.

Hole 16: there are some issues here, too. The fairway is very narrow and the fairway takes a right turn right where driver would typically end up. Taking a 3-wood off the tee is going to leave you almost 200 yards away and possibly with tree trouble. So there's no safe place to hit the ball off the tee, unless you try to hit the trees and kill the ball a bit to get it to stay in the fairway. My bigger concern is the rock hazard that sits in front of the greenside bunker. Just seems like overkill in terms of hazard in this one spot, and if you hit the rock the ball is going to go flying in who-knows-what direction. I think just the bunker here would be fine.

Hole 17: this hole and Hole 16 are basically the same distance. Hole 16 was 464, and Hole 17 is 467. They do look quite different, but I did have the same club in on both approach shots.

Hole 18: this is my favorite hole on the course. Cool way to finish the round!

Overall: I think the course is pretty well done and has a cool look to it. I like the rock work and planting to capture the feel of this kind of setting. There were a couple hole designs that felt a little awkward, and there were a few hole types that repeated or felt very similar to others we'd already seen before (the two right angle drivable par-4s stick out).

I'm not sure all that OB is needed around the cliffs, as mentioned above. At the very least, it needs to be cleaned up a bit to avoid having OB in playable areas like the Hole 4 green.

Really good job here, and good luck on the final stretch of getting this one done!

[norselaed]

Nope, sadly it's relatively random. I set the wind in a specific direction in the "play test" settings right before publishing, and I thought it was setting a primary direction/intensity and what it played as just Varried off that slightly, but others have said it doesn't matter unless you set them specifically when you are starting a round.

Thank you for replying to my request. I kinda suspected that was the case with regards to wind, tees and pins.

[norselaed]

Dec 19, 2023 2:33:44 GMT -5 albinobluesheep said:

Dec 19, 2023 0:51:21 GMT -5 norselaed said:

Is there a way to determine the default wind direction and speed as well the tees and pins to be used when you publish it or is it just what ever the computer decides when someone loads the game? I know you can go into the settings and change them each time it is loaded, but I wondered if there was a way of setting those when I publish the final version?

Nope, sadly it's relatively random. I set the wind in a specific direction in the "play test" settings right before publishing, and I thought it was setting a primary direction/intensity and what it played as just Varried off that slightly, but others have said it doesn't matter unless you set them specifically when you are starting a round.

Dec 19, 2023 0:51:21 GMT -5 norselaed said:

No matter what brush I used it just wouldn't line up exactly along my fence line. Am I missing something, is there some trick to getting it to line up right?

yeah, it's pretty annoying, just gotta move slowly and place a bunch of them if you want to line it up with a fence. I think the fuzzier brushes have less jagged edge, but are also more offset from the "brush" as you are placing it, where as the "hard edge" brushes are more accurate tot he edge of the brush, but the Out Of Bounds its creates is less smooth.

Just did a fly over and started the first few holes (up to the 7th), you really do NOT need to add OB to all the water. Water is a hazard anyway. You are just forcing the player to re-tee instead of the possibility of them having a fairway to drop in if they got lucky with where the hole was, and adding a lot of work for your self. Just let the player hit it into the water and the game will make it a hazard.

Played 18 and it seemed plenty playable. The two "C" shaped par 3s both seemed a bit repetitious, maybe change one of them. beyond that I wont comment on hole design since I'm a novice architect my self...and I played from the forward tees by accident. Played a few holes from the tips and the bunkering made a lot more sense.

[norselaed]

Sorry albinoblue sheep ...I am having trouble figuring out how to do the posts like you did where you copied part of my post and then answered it. I removed a bunch of the ob as you suggested. I did fall in love with c-shaped greens a little too much and I will try to watch that in the future. Thanks again for your taking your time to review the course and posting a reply.

[norselaed]

To sroel908 Ranger... Thanks so much for playing and reviewing my course. I agree with most of your suggestions and have already incorporated many into my next version of the course.

I reduced the clutter on a number of the holes including 1, and 15, and 16 and I made 11 green a little bigger and less wild.

You are right that 4 and 15 are very similar, but at this point I think I am going to leave them and remember that for the next course. I agree that most people are going to go for the green in both of those cases, but I did open up both the 3w landing areas for those times when wind conditions might make people look for an alternative.

I didn’t realize that 16 and 17 were that close in distance as I was looking mainly at the approach shots. I made 16 to be a very tough long approach shot and 17 to be a much shorter easy shot. I did widen 16 for the drive and gave the golfer a safer 3w landing area although it is still quite difficult since I removed trees, but added some bunkers. A golfer is still going to have a difficult time holding a driver in the fairway. I also removed the rock near the green as you were right it was too close to the 1 pin position.

On 7 it is basically playing as I intended with a tight tee shot on the left, but a shot at the green in two and a wide open landing area on the right, but no shot at the green. I did push back the cliffs on the right as to open up the layup area between the two sand traps, but still keep the green blocked off.

The OB is really kicking my ass. I removed all of it and started over, but I have a very hard time telling where the ob is, because if you move your controller just a little it changes the location of the red line a lot. I need ob on the other side of the fence line, because when I was test playing it I noticed that you could get hung up on the wrong side of the fence on the rocks and face a near impossible shot. It was rare, but did happen a couple of times.

Thanks again for the review and the kind words and encouragement.