Anemoia
Caddy
Posts: 15
TGCT Name: Christian Head
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Post by Anemoia on Jul 7, 2023 10:48:29 GMT -5
What would be considered too large of a green in the game?
Most of my courses I do are all similar parkland style where the green splines are 90 - 110ish yards. I'm trying my hand at a more links style with large greens. I'm just not sure how large is too large. Right now I'm trying 140-160ish yards on the green spline and it looks okay but seems too big.
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Post by fargo on Jul 8, 2023 22:19:06 GMT -5
A 150 yard circumference circle covers 16,000 square feet. Obviously the greens aren't perfect circles so the area is smaller than that, but it's a rough indication.
That's a very very big green even for links courses.
Average green sizes for a fairly standard American championship course is 5-6000 square feet. So a circle of circumference 80 to 90 yards.
You'll get some larger greens on links courses, but you'll also get smaller greens on some holes. A course like St Andrews has huge greens, most of them are double greens.
Really large greens can absolutely work on the right kind of course, if they fit the land. Nobody is going to construct an elevated green complex for a 16,000 square foot green. But on a traditional links course where the green is laid down on natural land, where the green size and contours work to encourage the ground game, and where different pin positions can offer different challenges, then very large greens can work.
A good thing to do might be to go to google maps and find some courses of a similar style to what you're designing and measure lengths and widths of the greens.
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Post by b101 on Jul 11, 2023 14:28:13 GMT -5
Short answer is that it really depends how much slope is on them. You don't want big, flat greens that have no interest, whilst making greens too small means you don't have enough space for interesting features or slopes.
For me, 95 yards on the spline has always been my standard, 120 would be about as large as I'd go and I'd rarely go below 80.
One other good thing to do is use Google Earth and measure green dimensions. See how big the greens at Hoylake, say, actually are.
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Anemoia
Caddy
Posts: 15
TGCT Name: Christian Head
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Post by Anemoia on Jul 14, 2023 15:46:22 GMT -5
Thank you for the responses! I have more of an idea of what to go for! As an American I'm more inclined to the standard size greens we have here which tend to be on the smaller side (for a majority of our courses and the local courses I play at). I'm trying to break out of my comfort zone and decided a links style course would be the way to go.
B101, what do you suggest as good links courses to study (besides the obvious ones)?
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Post by b101 on Jul 22, 2023 1:43:18 GMT -5
Thank you for the responses! I have more of an idea of what to go for! As an American I'm more inclined to the standard size greens we have here which tend to be on the smaller side (for a majority of our courses and the local courses I play at). I'm trying to break out of my comfort zone and decided a links style course would be the way to go. B101, what do you suggest as good links courses to study (besides the obvious ones)? Depends. There's a lot of variety within the 'links' designation. Good news is that UK course websites tend to give hole-by-hole breakdowns and often overheads with multiple photos to get an idea. For the Open rota courses, there's also loads on YouTube from past rounds or flyovers. Open rota: Hoylake, Lytham, St George's, Carnoustie, Birkdale, Muirfield, Turnberry, Portrush, Troon, St Andrews Other good studies: Rye, Royal Cinque Ports, Castle Stuart, Dornoch, Inverness, Aberdeen, North Berwick, Porthcawl, Portmarnock, Saunton, Burnham & Berrow, Hunstanton, Brancaster, Silloth on Solway, Prince's, Royal County Down, There's lots there already and I'll have forgotten some big names off the top of my head, especially in Scotland. I'd look at a lot from here: www.top100golfcourses.com/golf-courses/britain-ireland
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Post by chatgptgolfklubber2.0 on Aug 18, 2023 19:55:15 GMT -5
With my limited knowledge I'd say you also could consider this...
On a longer hole the green could be larger, to accept a lower trajectory approach the player is most likely to have, due to the length of the hole. There is more diversity in the results of using a longer club = lower accuracy and harder to keep the ball in your intended landing spot. Three irons land differently than Pitching Wedges.
Make your larger greens on longer holes (long par 3/4/any par 5, except a very short one,) and your smaller/more undulating greens, on your shorter ones (mid iron and shorter par 3, drivable par 4, long par 5.)
There is nothing easier than a very short par 5 with a huge boring green.
There is nothing harder than a very long par 3 with a tiny green and punishing hazards.
There is nothing better than a green that will accept your club of choice (if the shot is well struck and well thought out,) whilst also playing differently day to day with each pin set.
Two courses I'd check out if I were you are mattyfromcanadas Hackamore Field Club and pithydrs LACC as two examples of how a tiny green can work.
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Post by paddyjk19 on Aug 19, 2023 2:42:33 GMT -5
With my limited knowledge I'd say you also could consider this... On a longer hole the green could be larger, to accept a lower trajectory approach the player is most likely to have, due to the length of the hole. There is more diversity in the results of using a longer club = lower accuracy and harder to keep the ball in your intended landing spot. Three irons land differently than Pitching Wedges. Make your larger greens on longer holes (long par 3/4/any par 5, except a very short one,) and your smaller/more undulating greens, on your shorter ones (mid iron and shorter par 3, drivable par 4, long par 5.) There is nothing easier than a very short par 5 with a huge boring green. There is nothing harder than a very long par 3 with a tiny green and punishing hazards. There is nothing better than a green that will accept your club of choice (if the shot is well struck and well thought out,) whilst also playing differently day to day with each pin set. Two courses I'd check out if I were you are mattyfromcanadas Hackamore Field Club and pithydrs LACC as two examples of how a tiny green can work. This is a good though process, just adding to it - can also have a larger green on shorter holes BUT the green has to have what I’d call “greens within a green” (sorry to get all inception) which basically means there are segments, either divided by ridges, plateaus or Swales - means it’s easy to hit the green but to get close is more challenging. With all that said, I’ve had to build a 95 yard par 3 as part of a design contest and it’s basically a slither of green pitched diagonally on top of a knoll. It’s an absolute !%$# of a green 🤣
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Post by sandgroper on Aug 19, 2023 4:20:23 GMT -5
My <100 yard par 3 is a little more generous in size but has the green within a green outcome.
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Post by chatgptgolfklubber2.0 on Aug 19, 2023 7:44:21 GMT -5
Yes I agree. If a green is large it always needs segments and plateaus and tiers and bowls and backstops and spines and perry maxwell rolls and all those lovely lady bumps.
Or half the green is a giant kicker slope which in effect makes the green smaller, I like those holes, fun to feed shots in to different pins.
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Post by PicnicGuy / BobalooNOLA on Sept 4, 2023 8:43:30 GMT -5
Would love to see a green spline show it's interior area instead of perimeter.
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