TCRBrad
Amateur Golfer
Midwest Ope-n Champion
Posts: 180
TGCT Name: TCRBrad
Tour: Challenge Circuit
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Post by TCRBrad on Nov 9, 2022 16:02:22 GMT -5
If anyone is bored and wants to do some course testing - look up “BillandTedFallTest1” The course is basically done done, I just need to sculpt the surrounding area and plant. But looking for golf course feedback to see if anyone catches something I missed. Bill and Ted of course referencing Bill Langford and Ted Moreau      |
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TCRBrad
Amateur Golfer
Midwest Ope-n Champion
Posts: 180
TGCT Name: TCRBrad
Tour: Challenge Circuit
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Post by TCRBrad on Nov 30, 2022 14:21:27 GMT -5
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Post by sandgroper on Dec 1, 2022 7:22:52 GMT -5
It looks like an excellent adventure!
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Post by sroel908 on Dec 1, 2022 18:00:19 GMT -5
Just saw there was a "version 2" of this in the recently added courses list in-game. As a huge fan of Lawsonia, I figured I'd give that a go - pin 2, blue tees, default conditions.
I personally don't care for the design of Hole 4. The fairway bunker is not visible off the tee, and then the approach shot is at a 90-degree turn from the middle of the fairway. The section of the fairway that looks like the desired landing zone is also well past driver distance (my driver has a 300-yard carry, and I couldn't get to it with just a 1 mph wind in my face). Also, the default lighting here on this hole makes you stare directly into the sun on your second shot, and you can't see any of the green because the light is so blinding.
There's a pond on the right side of the fairway on Hole 6, but it's not at all visible from the tee.
I like the design of Hole 7...good risk/reward short par-4. A bit reminiscent of Hole 10 at Riviera.
Hole 8 felt a bit lacking for a par-5. It's just really wide and straight forward with not much strategy, other than the ridge running thru the middle of the fairway. I was able to reach in 2 from the low side with no issue, so I'd imagine it's even easier with a downhill approach from the left.
The sculpting on the left side of the fairway on Hole 10 is quite harsh. And the sculpting/raised nature of the Hole 11 green is a bit aggressive, too. I missed the green short on Hole 11, and had a 10 yard shot that was 10 feet uphill...the only shot I could really execute from here was a flop shot that landed 50 feet past the hole, due to the trajectory I needed to take.
The landing zone on Hole 15 is super pinched between two huge and deep grass bunkers. And then there's another massive grass bunker protecting the middle of the layup zone. Just feels a bit too aggressive again. I totally understand the ideas, but they are just a bit overdone, IMO.
Hole 18 has another very, very tight landing zone with a green that's also set way up above the rough below it.
I see the Lawsonia inspiration in spots. But again, it just seems the sculpting of it is too much. I know Lawsonia does have some pretty dramatic slopes around the green sites, but here, they are taken to another level.
In general, I also think that there's a lot of open spaces that either aren't planted, or are planted with grasses that don't show up at a distance. I know this is a problem with the game and not your work, but there just seems to be a lot of real estate that's wide open pastures with nothing there. Again, I know Lawsonia (especially the back 9) is quite open, but here it's again taken up a notch and just wide swaths of non-playing areas are bare and just unplanted grass.
Lastly, the lighting is very harsh and when you look into it, it's blinding like it was on Hole 4.
I think the ideas are there and I see what you're working toward. It might just need a bit of toning down in terms of the dramatic sculpting, some more strategic planting to fill in the bare spots, and some other environmental tweaks to lift the course up a bit.
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TCRBrad
Amateur Golfer
Midwest Ope-n Champion
Posts: 180
TGCT Name: TCRBrad
Tour: Challenge Circuit
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Post by TCRBrad on Dec 2, 2022 1:03:36 GMT -5
MOST importantly though sroel908 did you enjoy your round and did it bring you back to your round at Lawsonia Links? My object meter is maxed out - did you pick up on all the extra grass/heather planted around the fairways, greens, and walking paths? The 2K23 game made me reconfigure my graphics settings in-game...which thankfully I've been able to improve but it's still not as sharp as previous years. The sun on 4 was the only hole playing in that direction. Will have to play with more lighting to see if I can get the effect of showing slopes while not making your retinas burn in your backswing haha I was originally intending on this strictly being a "for fun" course and not anything for competition (though we'll likely use it in our No Laying Up society) - definitely was trying to be BOLD with the sculpting around the greens, especially that corridor of 10 & 11. The 11th is "almost" a mirror image of the 7th at Lawsonia (one of the best par 3's in the world). If I was looking to get this pushed to CC or TGC Tours I most definitely would cut the 15ft drop offs down to 8/10ft or so. You SHOULD be penalized for hitting one down there, but not so much that you can't hold the green with a flop shot. REALLY REALLY REALLY appreciate all your feedback and sincerely hope you enjoyed the round. If you look down the driveway of the course, there's a reversable 9 hole par 3 course I'll be releasing alongside the course as well. Take a look if you'd like On another note... Tonight I learned that F10 works the "Drone Camera" on PC and got "jiggy" with the screenshots. Again that's BILLANDTEDFALLTEST2 if anyone else would like to take a spin. Send me ALL your feedback.      |
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Post by sandgroper on Dec 2, 2022 8:54:46 GMT -5
And with drone camera active, press F11 to get rid of the pesky yellow lines…
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Post by sroel908 on Dec 2, 2022 9:43:24 GMT -5
MOST importantly though sroel908 did you enjoy your round and did it bring you back to your round at Lawsonia Links? My object meter is maxed out - did you pick up on all the extra grass/heather planted around the fairways, greens, and walking paths? The 2K23 game made me reconfigure my graphics settings in-game...which thankfully I've been able to improve but it's still not as sharp as previous years. The sun on 4 was the only hole playing in that direction. Will have to play with more lighting to see if I can get the effect of showing slopes while not making your retinas burn in your backswing haha I was originally intending on this strictly being a "for fun" course and not anything for competition (though we'll likely use it in our No Laying Up society) - definitely was trying to be BOLD with the sculpting around the greens, especially that corridor of 10 & 11. The 11th is "almost" a mirror image of the 7th at Lawsonia (one of the best par 3's in the world). If I was looking to get this pushed to CC or TGC Tours I most definitely would cut the 15ft drop offs down to 8/10ft or so. You SHOULD be penalized for hitting one down there, but not so much that you can't hold the green with a flop shot. REALLY REALLY REALLY appreciate all your feedback and sincerely hope you enjoyed the round. If you look down the driveway of the course, there's a reversable 9 hole par 3 course I'll be releasing alongside the course as well. Take a look if you'd like On another note... Tonight I learned that F10 works the "Drone Camera" on PC and got "jiggy" with the screenshots. Again that's BILLANDTEDFALLTEST2 if anyone else would like to take a spin. Send me ALL your feedback. Happy to help! The round was fine...It didn't fully capture Lawsonia for me. The only thing that really connected to that course was the dramatic slopes and sculpting around the greens. So there was some connection to Lawsonia Links, but it didn't quite get there completely, IMO. The grass/heather used here doesn't render at a distance, or at least didn't for me on PS4. It only pops up when you you're pretty close to it. So when viewing from a long way away, it appears the area is bare. Again, this is a game issue. I would recommend using some of the grass that appears from farther away to help with this. You can also make the grasses much larger to help with the rendering at a distance. The 11th here, honestly, did not remind me much of the 7th at Lawsonia. The sculpting of the green here is basically like the Raise brush was made to be the same as the green shape and was just lifted up 10 feet. It just didn't feel the same to me as when you step on to the Lawsonia's 7th tee and you get that signature "boxcar green" view. Sure, that hole has steep slopes off the green (and I am all too familiar with them). But here, it looks too harsh and not as smoothed out as it could be. I would recommend playing a course like "Chicago Golf Club" in 2K23 to see a fine example of a Golden Age course. It also does a good job of using the grasses that show at a distance. Also, there was actually a Lawsonia (Links) RCR in TGC 19 and 2K21...if you have those games, check it out. I don't think it's in 2K23. I do think there are moments where the Lawsonia influence does come through, and I can see the idea you're going for. But it just needs a few tweaks in terms of sculpting and the enviroment, IMO. |
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TCRBrad
Amateur Golfer
Midwest Ope-n Champion
Posts: 180
TGCT Name: TCRBrad
Tour: Challenge Circuit
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Post by TCRBrad on Dec 2, 2022 9:53:43 GMT -5
And with drone camera active, press F11 to get rid of the pesky yellow lines… You beauty....was wondering how I could get those out of frame. Thank you! |
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TCRBrad
Amateur Golfer
Midwest Ope-n Champion
Posts: 180
TGCT Name: TCRBrad
Tour: Challenge Circuit
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Post by TCRBrad on Dec 2, 2022 9:57:06 GMT -5
I would recommend playing a course like "Chicago Golf Club" in 2K23 to see a fine example of a Golden Age course. Wooooaaahhh sir that's Seth Raynor - WAAAYYYY too sophisticated for a Bill Langford and Ted Moreau enthusiast like myself  Totally get what you're saying about the slopes. Less vertical, a little more gradual. |
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Post by sroel908 on Dec 2, 2022 10:00:54 GMT -5
I would recommend playing a course like "Chicago Golf Club" in 2K23 to see a fine example of a Golden Age course. Wooooaaahhh sir that's Seth Raynor - WAAAYYYY too sophisticated for a Bill Langford and Ted Moreau enthusiast like myself Totally get what you're saying about the slopes. Less vertical, a little more gradual. Haha...fair point! I guess I was presenting it as more of an example of how to make a course with the dramatic sloping feel a bit more gradual. And it really captures the feel of a course from the late 19th/early 20th century. I do think you have the foundation for a solid L&M-inspired design, and just a few changes will get the course fully into that style. |
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Post by mrfatmark on Dec 3, 2022 10:10:23 GMT -5
This review is a couple days late, sorry about that. Anyone looking for good videos to watch on course reviews, please look at Brad's. His videos are AWESOME and very informative. He did a review on my course, and as I told him there is no way I can match what he did with mine. I feel like I am giving Tiger Woods swing advice by giving him a review. Thank you again for your review and ideas on my course.
Overall I like the look of your course and think it plays well. I enjoyed my rounds which I know is what you think is most important! I agree that on PS5 the grass that you used doesnt show up well/at all at a distance. I dont think this is fault of you, however it makes the distance look like a flat field basically until you get close. I do love a good autumn course.
Hole 1: I think this hole plays very well. There is a hole of sorts on the left of the fairway. I think this feature could benefit from some sort of planting, as it looks like a "man made" feature. Looks like it is missing something. I like the depression though. Green is fair, and barring you hit the fairway this is a birdie opportunity as the green can filter your ball towards the hole.
Hole 2: I love the flowers in front of the tee box, this gave me an idea for my course! There is a green next to the tee to the right, it is a little close to this hole. In real life I would kind of be scared being on that green when someone is teeing off (thinking of how I hit the ball!). A very fair par 3, must be on the right section of the green to birdie.
Hole 3: Very strait forward hole with no hazard. I like the planting on this hole, but no hazards makes this one seem kind of plain.
Hole 4: My favorite hole so far. I play this one with 3 wood off the tee to give myself a better angle into the green/more green to work with. However, when you hit your shot short it is a very tough up and down with the slope in front of the green. This hole makes you think.
Hole 5: Again, I like the flowers next to the tee box. Your long bunker is very skinny and flat. I missed the green on the hill here, and my ball didnt make it into the bunker. I feel like this bunker could be wider or maybe come up the slope a little so balls better end up in it. Another fair hole and birdie opportunity if you hit the ball better than I did.
Hole 6: From the tee it looks like a flat borring hole. However there is water that is hidden from the tee. Not sure what you can do to make there look like there is more of a hazard there, but it is very hidden. If you miss the fairway or decide not to go for this in 2, the layup spot on this fairway is a little plain. I know you choke it off, but I just aimed away from that. Another birdie opportunity for sure.
Hole 7: Probably my favorite hole up to this point and not just because its a short par 4. There are several hazards to maneuver, and this hole really makes you think and place your ball well. Birdie opportunity for sure, if you are accurate.
Hole 8: Other than the 2 tier fairway, this is a very plain tee shot. The 2nd shot is also kind of plain. My golfer is focused more on timing than distance, so I couldnt take this one on in 2. I layed up before the bunkers, and pretty easy chip and putt. For my taste the fairway is to "perfect" with your lines.
Hole 9: Very long par 3 coming back at the clubhouse. Neat little water tower for your course. This hole is very strait forward.
Hole 10: On this hole I don't mind the steep drop from fairway. I think it could be planted a little different, as it looks like it is mowed. I dont know how anyone could mow that hill! If you are off the slope you still have an angle to this green, so I think this one works.
Hole 11: The steep hill on this one, I dont think this one works. I purposely put my ball down there to see how it played, took em 3 flop shots to get over it. If you are there, there is no stategy to go at the flag or green. I think this hill needs to be re-thinked, or less penile. This hill can frustrate people
Hole 12: This is a very fun tee shot. I'm not 100% sure what is different about the planting on this tee shot, but this one is framed much better than most. good hole, and very tough green. I think par on this hole is a good score.
hole 13: Another hazard less hole. I really like the hills/undulations that you have near the choke point at the green. I think if some of that was scattered through the rest of the fairway this hold would be more fun. As it stands it just kind of boring and plain.
Hole 14: My favorite par 3 so far. Short hole with tough green, good job.
Hole 15: There is another depression on this one similar to hole 1. I feel like something should be in here. This is a very interesting design with the double fairway going to the large green. Not sure if its my cup of tee, but the hole plays well.
Hole 16: Planting on this hole is good. This is the hole that made me realize that I am just out in the middle of nowhere playing a good round of golf. Fun little hole, nothing special that jumps out at you though.
HOle 17: Very large green (maybe too large). Based on pin position, you could end up with an unfair putt on this hole. Just be careful with that. Otherwise this hole plays well.
Hole 18: Very interesting designed fairway. If you miss the choked tee shot, no way to get there in 2 and a tough lay up shot. This green is huge, in my opinion way to large. I like the undulation of the green though.
I enjoyed my round, and once the final is posted I will add to my normal rotation. Thank you again, and I hope my review helps you in your journey.
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TCRBrad
Amateur Golfer
Midwest Ope-n Champion
Posts: 180
TGCT Name: TCRBrad
Tour: Challenge Circuit
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Post by TCRBrad on Dec 9, 2022 12:57:49 GMT -5
Appreciate everyone's feedback! Here are some of the changes made to the course before I publish today. 1 - Planted the top of the grass bunker 4 - Built up the bunker wall to be more visible from the tee 6 - Sculpted the right side and added a willow tree for an added sightline off the tee. Sculpted a deeper "valley of sin" short right of the green to add more penalty for coming up short if you go for the green in 2. Built up the grass bunker walls in the layup area to challenge players and penalize them if they don't execute. 8 - Changed the fairway to add a centerline mound instead of a shelf. Pinched off the fairway right with a bunker, and left with a grass bunker. Added a grass bunker in the layup area left, and built up more of the left side kicker towards the green. Added mounding short left of the green to kick balls away from Pin 2. 11 - Lowered the entire green complex by 7ft, and softened up the slopes on the green. Added stairs to the walking path up to 12 tee and flattened out the grass bunker short to allow for a chip shot up the slope. 13 - Planted boulders/rock outcroppings to visually enhance the golf hole. 15 - Planted boulders/rock outcropping in the grass bunker in the layup area to enhance visuals and create a natural "hazard" for players to avoid. 16 - Planted boulders/rock outcroppings to visually enhance the golf hole. 17 - Planted boulders/rock outcroppings to visually enhance the golf hole. 18 - Widened the right side of the landing area off the tee to ease the difficulty of the tee shot, but left the grass bunker right for players that get greedy and don't execute a well played tee-shot. Adding a few more "immersive things" and should be publishing tonight! Appreciate everyone's help |
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Post by mrfatmark on Dec 9, 2022 15:27:11 GMT -5
Looking forward to playing the final build!
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