BrendanOR123
Amateur Golfer
Y'all are old compared to me!
Posts: 232
TGCT Name: Brendan O'Reilly
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Post by BrendanOR123 on Oct 27, 2022 11:04:54 GMT -5
Hey all, anyone know when lot bunkers are coming into 2k23?
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BrendanOR123
Amateur Golfer
Y'all are old compared to me!
Posts: 232
TGCT Name: Brendan O'Reilly
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Post by BrendanOR123 on Oct 27, 2022 11:06:03 GMT -5
Pot bunkers*
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Post by sroel908 on Oct 27, 2022 11:28:10 GMT -5
There's been no indication that designers will be able to use pot bunkers at all in 2K23. I think there are potential issues that could arise if everyone were able to use pot bunkers...I don't quite understand that part, but that's what others have said in regards to why they aren't just available for use.
I think there's hope they find a way to add them for us to use, but I am not holding my breath on that.
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Post by beamt0wn on Oct 31, 2022 15:27:16 GMT -5
There's been no indication that designers will be able to use pot bunkers at all in 2K23. I think there are potential issues that could arise if everyone were able to use pot bunkers...I don't quite understand that part, but that's what others have said in regards to why they aren't just available for use. I think there's hope they find a way to add them for us to use, but I am not holding my breath on that.
HB/2k say that they are going to add pot bunkers to the designer. if you ignore literally every piece of past evidence of them not delivering on promises and take them at their word, then we'll get them!
personally tho, i'm not holding my breath either. before i requested a refund on steam, i loaded up the default course with pot bunkers to take a closer look at them, and here's how they are being implemented:
it's a 2-d facade that sits on top of the actual terrain. completely hacked together as a workaround for the game's total inability to handle terrain with steep slopes. if i had to guess, pot bunkers are coded similarly to retaining walls, which use 2-dimentional geometry that sits above the actual terrain to create the illusion of a flat spot. but in this case, i cannot think of a realistic way to implement a user-facing version of this that would allow for any degree of customization.
best case, you'll get a pre-made selection of pot bunker shapes with the ability to "stamp" them into the terrain. customization would probably be limited. you'd probably be able to do a uniform scale within a certain range, but that's about it. unlikely you'd have the ability to customize the shape or depth in any way. and stamping one would probably affect the terrain around it and limit your ability to sculpt terrain within a few yards of the perimiter (similar to how the clubhouse buildings work).
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Post by sroel908 on Oct 31, 2022 15:33:10 GMT -5
There's been no indication that designers will be able to use pot bunkers at all in 2K23. I think there are potential issues that could arise if everyone were able to use pot bunkers...I don't quite understand that part, but that's what others have said in regards to why they aren't just available for use. I think there's hope they find a way to add them for us to use, but I am not holding my breath on that.
HB/2k say that they are going to add pot bunkers to the designer. if you ignore literally every piece of past evidence of them not delivering on promises and take them at their word, then we'll get them!
personally tho, i'm not holding my breath either. before i requested a refund on steam, i loaded up the default course with pot bunkers to take a closer look at them, and here's how they are being implemented:
it's a 2-d facade that sits on top of the actual terrain. completely hacked together as a workaround for the game's total inability to handle terrain with steep slopes. if i had to guess, pot bunkers are coded similarly to retaining walls, which use 2-dimentional geometry that sits above the actual terrain to create the illusion of a flat spot. but in this case, i cannot think of a realistic way to implement a user-facing version of this that would allow for any degree of customization.
best case, you'll get a pre-made selection of pot bunker shapes with the ability to "stamp" them into the terrain. customization would probably be limited. you'd probably be able to do a uniform scale within a certain range, but that's about it. unlikely you'd have the ability to customize the shape or depth in any way. and stamping one would probably affect the terrain around it and limit your ability to sculpt terrain within a few yards of the perimiter (similar to how the clubhouse buildings work).
Ewww...
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Post by Q on Nov 1, 2022 21:43:29 GMT -5
I'd take a bunker surface brush that works identically to placing water any day of the week. Just give me the bunker lip texture and I'll be able to make them just fine. Btw nothing they can really do about vertical slopes, that's a Unity limitation that cannot be overcome
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Post by beamt0wn on Nov 2, 2022 10:00:45 GMT -5
Btw nothing they can really do about vertical slopes, that's a Unity limitation that cannot be overcome
not the first time i've heard this, but various google searches about the unity engine terrain limitations, vertical slopes, etc turn up absolutely nothing. and i've seen plenty of steep slopes in other unity games.
so i'm not saying you're wrong, but i'd like to see some concrete answers or documentation about this limitation instead of forum posts from folks who don't develop games in unity.
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Post by Q on Nov 2, 2022 15:16:26 GMT -5
Btw nothing they can really do about vertical slopes, that's a Unity limitation that cannot be overcome
not the first time i've heard this, but various google searches about the unity engine terrain limitations, vertical slopes, etc turn up absolutely nothing. and i've seen plenty of steep slopes in other unity games.
so i'm not saying you're wrong, but i'd like to see some concrete answers or documentation about this limitation instead of forum posts from folks who don't develop games in unity.
That's fair, I'm giving a simplified answer as well that isn't the whole truth. The ingame tool we use for making golf courses is VERY similar to the Unity mapping tool (most of the brushes are default unity ones which is hilarious). I have limited mapping experience in Unity so I can't say for sure it can't be implemented, but it's highly unlikely it ever will be. The current system uses height maps, not displacements to store the "floor" of the map, this is why the map files are so ridiculously small, maybe 10mb max because they store the "points" of the map in a 2d finite grid which should explain why vertical slopes are impossible as height maps can't have overlapping points. This is also why textures "stretch" on the z-axis when you make extreme slopes. This is also why it was semi-easy to import LiDar data into this game as it's just converting one piece of heightmap data into another one I could go into a whole rant about modern day mapping as I do map a lot in Hammer (source) but I think it would be a bit offtopic. Love the subject though.
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Post by gamesdecent on Nov 3, 2022 9:41:38 GMT -5
That's fair, I'm giving a simplified answer as well that isn't the whole truth. The ingame tool we use for making golf courses is VERY similar to the Unity mapping tool (most of the brushes are default unity ones which is hilarious). I have limited mapping experience in Unity so I can't say for sure it can't be implemented, but it's highly unlikely it ever will be. The current system uses height maps, not displacements to store the "floor" of the map, this is why the map files are so ridiculously small, maybe 10mb max because they store the "points" of the map in a 2d finite grid which should explain why vertical slopes are impossible as height maps can't have overlapping points. This is also why textures "stretch" on the z-axis when you make extreme slopes. This is also why it was semi-easy to import LiDar data into this game as it's just converting one piece of heightmap data into another one I could go into a whole rant about modern day mapping as I do map a lot in Hammer (source) but I think it would be a bit offtopic. Love the subject though. I was finding a similar issue when I was playing around in Unreal 5, though it's a little better because you can play with how many "grid points" are inside the individual brushes. So if you wanted a higher fidelity (more tris) within that vertical slope or to get rid of the "scalloping" issue we get around bunker lips with Unity, you just bump up the slider on the brush to get more grid points to create tris between. Felt like it would be a huge trade off between the simplicity of the designer we're all used to and being able to do virtually anything you wanted, but with a much steeper learning curve.
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Post by rjwils30 on Nov 4, 2022 0:57:08 GMT -5
This reminds of the Arnold Palmer course designer with Links golf back in the day. Pretty powerful but a Major pain in the ass to work with. You would literally have to create the mesh of a surface. Yikes. I’d hope there’s some middle ground that can be achieved in the next gen.
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Post by Q on Nov 4, 2022 1:05:59 GMT -5
This reminds of the Arnold Palmer course designer with Links golf back in the day. Pretty powerful but a Major pain in the ass to work with. You would literally have to create the mesh of a surface. Yikes. I’d hope there’s some middle ground that can be achieved in the next gen. This was the same in Tiger Woods 2004, The PC version had a designer and the terrain was a displacement mesh.
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Post by sandgroper on Nov 5, 2022 8:46:14 GMT -5
What would be great is the ability to create a LiDAR map of a plot and then put it through a “plot generator” to reset all of the modifications made during the LiDAR manipulation to “reset” the landscape to reduce the file size to the same as an auto-generated plot.
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