tensixty6
Caddy
It went right down the middle, smack down the middle....
Posts: 11
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Post by tensixty6 on Jul 12, 2022 15:19:38 GMT -5
Hello, all. Long time player, first time builder.
Does anyone here ever use the routings of real golf courses for the backbone of their own projects? Or would that be crossing the lines of making an unrealistic recreation course?
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Post by grovey31 on Jul 13, 2022 7:16:27 GMT -5
I may look at real world routings or certain parts of real world routings for inspiration but neve copy directly. I don't think there's anything really wrong with it though. The main thing I would recommend doing is making sure to specifically say it's a real world routing and then cite your source as to not pass off someone else's work as your own. As far as submitting it to the database, someone else will have to chime in on that.
And as far as making an "unrealistic recreation course", I mean who cares if you use Pebble Beach's routing in a Nebraska sand hills location. Pretty sure they're doing that with the new Lido recreation at Sand Valley. But again, make that clear and cite your source.
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Post by b101 on Jul 13, 2022 8:03:30 GMT -5
Pretty much what Adam says - it’s fine, just acknowledge it. I know joegolferg has done it with a few of his courses. Personally, I’ll take ideas from real world routings and love studying them, but I find that the more I look at them, the harder it is to come up with something original and the more I want to replicate that course. Best example of that from my catalogue was Strathlorne - I spent ages looking over Cabot Cliffs and rjwils30 ‘s New Highland Dunes and as a result, almost every routing I did for the first few days felt way too similar or copycat. In the end, there are some nods (the way 9/18 both come back to a central point on the cliffs is the one that I wanted to keep and there are likely others), but the rest is unique and the course is better for it. One final thing I’ve learned looking at lots and lots of routings and overheads is that you simply can’t tell everything in 2D. Use Google Earth as much as you can to understand the decisions the real architects made, how transitions and tie-ins work and key aspects (e.g. width of fairways, corridors etc). I guess, in summary, it can be a good starting point but I think it can stifle creativity and really unlocking the best course on a plot. Whilst I love starting from a birds eye view and sketching out a routing on paper with no features, there’s good reason why that approach isn’t used in real life! If there’s a great greensite or hole right there, don’t pass on it just because the course you’re inspired by didn’t do the same thing. Genuinely, I could chat about routing for days. Fascinating topic and I always feel I’m learning something by studying other courses and trying to understand the decisions the designer took.
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tensixty6
Caddy
It went right down the middle, smack down the middle....
Posts: 11
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Post by tensixty6 on Jul 13, 2022 8:21:35 GMT -5
Do you use the terrain generated in the game, then? I've always flattened the plot in previous attempts, so as to give myself the most freedom to create anything. It's always seemed to me that the generated terrain is difficult to work with.
I could also talk about routings forever, and yes, it's hard to see in 2D why they made the decisions they did in 3D. My biggest thing I want to achieve is a course built with realistic proportions. A lot of the courses done for 2k21 are gorgeous, but I'd hate to be in charge of their greenkeeping budget.The game gives you 989 acres to work with- even a course on the scale of Bethpage Black should only need a fraction of that.
Maybe I think too much, but I was a golfer irl into college, and it matters, if only to me.
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Post by rjwils30 on Jul 13, 2022 11:06:10 GMT -5
I personally like to constrain myself with a plot as I find it brings out the most unique solution. My process:
1.Flatten everything 2.build up the site with random contours of varying scales to generate an interesting site (this allows the fairways to be applied without all of the auto flattening. 4. Add some natural water features or groves of trees that cant be modified 3. Define a property boundary based on a course of similar scale measures from google earth. 4.add road access or clubhouse location.
Once all this is complete I set about the routing process trying to find cool holes on the site and ensuring that the holes flow well together and you have a variety of shots. I often take inspiration from certain courses before I start and spend a fair bit of time looking at the routing. For My last course I studied the shinnecok routing a fair bit and wanted to capture some of the key elements of the routing like the way the course relates to the clubhouse and the many directional changes, although not as well as Shinnecock which if you look it has almost no successive holes in the same direction. In the end, it’s best to let the land dictate and not force something.
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Post by rjwils30 on Jul 13, 2022 11:08:56 GMT -5
Or better yet get someone else to put the plot together and design to that. I’ve done it several times with b101, gamesdecent and tpetro. Those guys are all great at creating plots.
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tensixty6
Caddy
It went right down the middle, smack down the middle....
Posts: 11
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Post by tensixty6 on Jul 13, 2022 13:38:36 GMT -5
Ok. It's nice to know my instincts aren't far off. I've currently given myself about 150 acres to work with. It's already flattened, so mainly I'm just glad I don't have to prepare ANOTHER new plot, lol.
I'm designing on PS4. Is there any significant disadvantage to that over the PC? I simply don't have a computer good enough to run it the way I'd want to.
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Post by sroel908 on Jul 13, 2022 13:58:01 GMT -5
Ok. It's nice to know my instincts aren't far off. I've currently given myself about 150 acres to work with. It's already flattened, so mainly I'm just glad I don't have to prepare ANOTHER new plot, lol. I'm designing on PS4. Is there any significant disadvantage to that over the PC? I simply don't have a computer good enough to run it the way I'd want to. I design on PS4, too. It's much, much, much slower than PC, from what I've seen. Each click of a button on PS4, even just to change pages of trees or something, takes a lot longer than it does on faster systems. I am used to it, but it seems once you start designing on a PC, going back to a different platform is completely pointless.
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tensixty6
Caddy
It went right down the middle, smack down the middle....
Posts: 11
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Post by tensixty6 on Jul 13, 2022 20:03:03 GMT -5
Or better yet get someone else to put the plot together and design to that. I’ve done it several times with b101 , gamesdecent and tpetro . Those guys are all great at creating plots. Is this option PC only?
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Post by scootmcgoot on Jul 13, 2022 21:09:11 GMT -5
Or better yet get someone else to put the plot together and design to that. I’ve done it several times with b101 , gamesdecent and tpetro . Those guys are all great at creating plots. Is this option PC only? Yes
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Post by sandgroper on Jul 13, 2022 21:24:32 GMT -5
I've only got an average PC, but I sprung for an entry graphics card (GTX 1050 Ti) and it performs well in the designer (even if I can't) lol
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tensixty6
Caddy
It went right down the middle, smack down the middle....
Posts: 11
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Post by tensixty6 on Jul 14, 2022 8:39:55 GMT -5
I'm in school right now, so buying a better machine- even just a new graphics card- is pretty much out of the question.
I'm also curious about people who have done multiple versions of a course. Are you able to update the plots once they have been published?
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Post by sandgroper on Jul 14, 2022 9:03:19 GMT -5
Yes, once published you can “re-open” a course and work on it further. This is how people publish beta versions of their course.
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Post by PicnicGuy / BobalooNOLA on Aug 18, 2022 13:45:19 GMT -5
Did that with my Decker Resort Match Club, using a now-closed course (Bluebonnet Hill) in the Austin area reset into a desert-ish environment. I am on PS4, so I had to use Google earth to measure things, and made a couple of minor alterations with hazard placements. But the length, hole sequence, shot direction & elevation tee-to-green were pretty close to the real thing. Shame it closed.
TBH, the only place you can really give the credit is in posts on social media like here, since the game doesn't offer a place for designers to describe their efforts, which I did.
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Post by PicnicGuy / BobalooNOLA on Aug 18, 2022 13:49:16 GMT -5
Ok. It's nice to know my instincts aren't far off. I've currently given myself about 150 acres to work with. It's already flattened, so mainly I'm just glad I don't have to prepare ANOTHER new plot, lol. I'm designing on PS4. Is there any significant disadvantage to that over the PC? I simply don't have a computer good enough to run it the way I'd want to. I design on PS4, too. It's much, much, much slower than PC, from what I've seen. Each click of a button on PS4, even just to change pages of trees or something, takes a lot longer than it does on faster systems. I am used to it, but it seems once you start designing on a PC, going back to a different platform is completely pointless. Sometimes when you are seeing incredibly slow processing on a PS, it's due to having changed themes mid-stream.
I am fairly sure that changing a plot started as 'Delta' will lag miserably if you change it to 'Rustic' or 'Swiss', for example. Probably a more specific set of circumstances, but that seems to be a basic starting point for the problem.
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