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Post by customarydata31 on Feb 11, 2022 19:19:18 GMT -5
Hello all
I have been thinking about this a lot lately. I am a golfer I’ve played a lot and understand the rules and strategy but at the end of the day what is the difference between a 500 yard par 4 and a 500 yard par 5? Aside from strategy and a 4 being birdie or par it doesn’t change the score. Sure you may be 1 under par better with a par 5 but the final total score is still the same. A 4 is still a 4 a 3 is still a 3. Aside from the strategy on approaching the hole do you think it makes a difference?
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Post by ErixonStone on Feb 12, 2022 10:26:20 GMT -5
Generally speaking, par is assigned based on the expectations for players playing the hole. If players can reach the green with reasonable effort in 2 shots, then the hole should be assigned a par of 4. If it would take one or two heroic shots to reach the green, and the reasonable expectation is that players reach in 3 shots, then the hole should be assigned a par of 5. That's why there are many times where a hole that is a par 5 for members plays as a par 4 for Tour Pros - the members playing the hole aren't reasonably expected to reach in 2, but Tour Pros are.
When it comes to whether a 500-yard hole should be a par 4 or 5 in PGA2K21, a lot is going to depend on how the hole is constructed. With no hazards impeding a direct line, you're looking at a par 4, as most players drive the ball 320 yards, so they're looking at approaching the green with a 5 or 6 iron. If there are hazards fronting the green, or a lot of trouble that players can get into if they miss a risky shot, then you can start thinking about assigning the hole a par of 5. Maybe the drive plays toward a cross hazard with a very narrow gap, and the approach is to a very small green protected on all sides.
FWIW, on my current WIP, there are 4 par 5s, but none shorter than 560 yards, and I have a par 4 that stretches out to 520 yards. The reason for this is that the fairways are as fast and firm as possible, so players routinely drive the ball 330+ yards. On another course, there's a par 5 that plays 520 yards, but that's because the green and fairway are heavily protected and the course is as soft and slow as possible.
As far as how par matters in a competition: it doesn't have an objective value, but we assign a subjective value to it. Most of us have played a hole and thought, "hmm the par for this hole should really be..." because, looking at the hole, you had a good feel for what a good score on the hole is. Assigned par be damned. Par matters, but it's descriptive, not prescriptive. It only matters insomuch as we give it value.
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Post by mvpmanatee on Feb 15, 2022 10:04:20 GMT -5
Par is dumb
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Post by b101 on Feb 15, 2022 12:22:56 GMT -5
Par is dumb until you get dumb people designing along the mantra of 'par is dumb'. The subsequent threads of 'why was my 700 yard par three rejected?' are always fun. --- In all seriousness, my take is that par remains a good guideline. All for half par holes, but they can be overdone as well - if you create a course with 18 half par holes, it'll tend to feel pretty unbalanced (IMO). I generally fall into the mindset that par is (relatively) irrelevant, but I've seen so much nonsense when reviewing/judging that I no longer fully support the statement. |
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Post by customarydata31 on Feb 15, 2022 23:50:47 GMT -5
These are all good points and hole design and all that matters too. Just interesting how it guides strategy
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Post by oswinner on Feb 16, 2022 17:20:46 GMT -5
Par is a little overrated in golf and it’s all psychological.
Imagine you had 4 holes around 500-520 yards and the field plays each hole to an average of 4.5 strokes.
Make them all par 5s, people will say your course is too easy.
Make them all par 4s, people will say your course is too hard.
At the end of the day, they are still the same holes and the field is still scoring an average of 4.5 on them.
From a design point of view it’s all subjective. Do you want your course to be perceived as easy with chances of eagles and easy birdies? Or do you want your course to be perceived as a grind with small chance of birdies?
Personally, I’d prefer to have two of the holes as par 5s and two as par 4s to balance the psychological effects.
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Post by zacheroni on Feb 18, 2022 21:39:31 GMT -5
Par is a little overrated in golf and it’s all psychological. Imagine you had 4 holes around 500-520 yards and the field plays each hole to an average of 4.5 strokes. Make them all par 5s, people will say your course is too easy. Make them all par 4s, people will say your course is too hard. At the end of the day, they are still the same holes and the field is still scoring an average of 4.5 on them. From a design point of view it’s all subjective. Do you want your course to be perceived as easy with chances of eagles and easy birdies? Or do you want your course to be perceived as a grind with small chance of birdies? Personally, I’d prefer to have two of the holes as par 5s and two as par 4s to balance the psychological effects. You sir, are a genius. |
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Post by customarydata31 on Feb 24, 2022 22:48:00 GMT -5
I agree with that. The final score is the final score. It would never happen but I wonder if the golf world just dropped par everything was just stroke based. I know some majors have the board as stroke total
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