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Post by SAM on Sept 19, 2021 5:55:04 GMT -5
Larkhill Manor Golf & Country Club:
This is my entry for the Parkland / Golden Age design contest hosted by Benny K & CD06. Check into one of the luxury suites at the converted 4 star Larkhill Manor County House Hotel & enjoy an array of parkland activities available to guests & visitors alike including: Adventure trails & orienteering team races. The fishing club on the banks of the west lake as well as a leisure centre & the wonderful East Lake Boating Club. The main attraction though is the 18 hole, championship style, well manicured golf course boasting traditionally tight, compacted tree lined fairways & a varied selection of “Golden Age” style greens. 3 tees with a choice of 4 pin placements are available giving a challenging but relaxed round for all skill levels. The default settings for Larkhill Manor G&CC are:Theme: Boreal Atmospheric Conditions: Summer, early morning, overcast. Holes: 18. Approximate Length: 7,300 yards. Par: 72 (x4 par 3, x10 par 4, x4 par 5). Fairways: Firm. Greens: Firm. Greens speed: Fast @173 feet putt rating. Tees – Blue: 7,304 yards. …..... Gold: 7,050 yards …...... Red: 6,715 yards. Crowds on course: Clubhouse stands & small greenside clusters. Selected Pics:Larkhill Manor Country House Hotel & Golf Club... West Lake Fishing Club....
East Lake Leisure Club... West Lake Boating Club... Putting green & driving range... 171 yard, par 3, hole 2 island green... 455 yard, par 4, hole 6 view from the tees... 560 yard, par 5, hole 9 approach... 343 yard, short par 4, hole 12 from the tees... 484 yard, par 4, hole 16 approach... 234 yard, par 3, hole 17 Biarritz green... 599 yard, par 5, hole 18 approach... I made a short video to showcase some of the holes..... enjoy & feel free to let me know what you think.
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Post by SAM on Sept 22, 2021 4:26:17 GMT -5
Cheers cg444 ... glad you enjoyed your round. I will be playing it (post publish) for the first time today... live with 3 opponents on this week's....... Midday (GMT)... >>> Link to my Twitch Channel <<<
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Post by pingzing on Sept 24, 2021 7:19:05 GMT -5
Like the Misty Moist conditions Well blended textures
Clean Lines Classic Parkies style
Nothing tricked up here with subtle elevations Sloping fairways in all directions add to the challenge
10th green is a bit of a bowl cut 13th – that number ? Bit too pinched up there in the driver landing zone
Few odd shaped bunkers here and there , they seem to sneak into some of your designs
17th looks a bit like a Template design,something different
Apart from that, classic Sam style course. No hangups,easy on the eye
End of round – Fir 100% - stats say it all - good playability
Good on you for having a crack at another contest, your contributions are admirable so is the number of courses your have made
Cheers Sam
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Post by mattf27 on Sept 24, 2021 12:31:13 GMT -5
Since SAM (hilariously) is attempting to blackmail me by going public with something that was never hidden to begin with, I'll just publicly give you ALL my rant. The reviewers decided as a group that we all strongly disagreed with the original rating as the course is just aggressively mediocre. Not only is this consistent with how we've done it in the past, it's also not a secret. Guess what? The reviewing system is inherently flawed, and if left up to me I'd have blown the whole thing up long ago. I'm tired of dealing with whiny designers with bruised egos trying to argue with me over things that were never about them to begin with. But, we do what we can to keep it chugging along so the site can work, and if something is brought to our attention we collectively feel was off, we've corrected it. We're just trying to keep as consistent a standard as possible. At the end of the day, and what many people seem unable to grasp, is that the database does not exist to give you kudos, or to stroke your ego. It's just a tool to fill out the schedule so the tours can function. I can't fathom why anyone would care so deeply about a rating that is honestly completely meaningless. So there you go, hope this was an acceptable response to your ultimatum. You can post whatever private messages about the situation you want, I could not possibly care less. I hope you're happy now.
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Post by SAM on Sept 25, 2021 4:31:06 GMT -5
At 11:15am on Friday 24th September 2021, I promised to allow 48hrs for this situation to be resolved privately & will therefore hold back my "hilarious attempt at blackmail" until such time. What I will say in the meantime is how underhand & unprofessional the above post is by publicly hijacking my course thread before the deadline. I don't expect to win - the issue I have is of a purely moral nature.
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Post by b101 on Sept 25, 2021 5:47:03 GMT -5
Reviewing is, and always has been, outside of the contest sphere. Judges never look at it, nor are they influenced by it.
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Post by axelvonfersen on Sept 25, 2021 6:37:05 GMT -5
At 11:15am on Friday 24th September 2021, I promised to allow 48hrs for this situation to be resolved privately & will therefore hold back my "hilarious attempt at blackmail" until such time. What I will say in the meantime is how underhand & unprofessional the above post is by publicly hijacking my course thread before the deadline. I don't expect to win - the issue I have is of a purely moral nature. Another option, of course, is to back down, take a deep breath, come to the understanding that your course did not meet the standards of TW courses, and go back to the drawing board and design a better course next time. Just a thought.
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Post by SAM on Sept 26, 2021 6:06:00 GMT -5
Some folks are jumping to conclusions without knowing the full facts of what's happened. Here are the facts & reasons why I'm unhappy. I published & submitted Larkhill Manor to the database for review on the 19th September 2021. It was officially reviewed & awarded tour worthy status on the 21st September 2021 (screenshot #1 below). My course was featured in the "Top New Courses" section at the foot of the TGCTours front page. I made several promotional posts across various forums & social media sites advising members of the above. Approximately 24 hours later on the 22nd September 2021 it was removed from the Top New Courses section & stripped of the official "tour worthy" status appearing now as "approved" (screenshot #2 below). Screenshot #1 (Larkhill Manor is the final course on the list).... Screenshot #2 (Again, Larkhill Manor is the final course on the list)... What would you (in my case a well established, popular community designer) do if that happened to one of your submissions? How would that make you feel? Eager to resolve the issue I sent the TGCTours head reviewer the following private message: 22 Sep 2021 at 16:17 Hi Andre....
Not sure what's happened here....
I was obviously pleased to see my latest course "Larkhill Manor G & CC" appear at the bottom of the front page under the "Top New Courses" banner on the 21st September 2021 & snapped a screenshot of it's "Tour Worthy" status for promotional reasons.
Then today (22nd September) I went to look at the latest "Top New Courses" & noticed Larkhill Manor wasn't there. Odd, I thought... that didn't last long - must be because of all the new stuff coming thick & fast but curiously 2 of other courses were still showing.
I went to check my designer page & was shocked to see it had been changed to "Approved." Would it be possible for you to reinstate it's "Tour Worthy" status on the data base as I don't want to make a song & dance about it after promoting it as tour worthy & thanking the reviewer / review team on here as well as various other forums. Thanks in advance,
Simon. The next day due to world time zones I opened the following reply:22 Sep 2021 at 17:25 via mobile Hi Sam, I'll get in touch with the reviewer and get him to touch base with you. Not sure what the decision was on it.Now, (take note) there's a very important sentence at the end of his message. He, the TGCTours staff member, who's title is "Head Reviewer" knew nothing of the decision!! Consequently Matt Fritsch ( mattf27 ) was rolled out to make the review teams case & he basically threw the original official reviewer (known only to me as "Forrest") under the bus. Apparently, the decision was made out of pity... yes, you read that correctly - "Larkhill Manor" was awarded tour worthy status & more importantly added to the Top New Courses section "out of pity." I'm tempted to use profanity here but I will refrain - I'm pretty sure the majority of those reading this will understand. I've since told Matt I'm not interested in grabbing a season 8 tour spot & they can tell the schedulers to veto my course. All I asked was for the original "official tour worthy status" to be reinstated so I wouldn't be seen as a liar here at TGCTours & several other PGA Tour 2K21 community sites. Like I said in a previous post above - it's a moral issue. One thing for sure in my opinion - the current review process here is flawed, underhanded & needs a complete overhaul. Indeed, I've heard other members calling for the "Tour Worthy" status to be scrapped & just have "Approved" or "Not Approved." That would solve many, many of the issues they are dealing with. The elite would still be handed tour venues but there would be none of the current shenanigan's taking place Imagine this scenario designers: You publish & submit 6 courses to the PGA Tour 2K21 database which are all "approved" then finally on your 7th attempt you grab a "tour worthy" status & promote the course accordingly only for it to be stripped of it's award the next day. <<<shakes head>>>
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Post by 15eicheltower9 on Sept 26, 2021 6:58:17 GMT -5
It's not an award. There are no prizes. It's a way to keep the database organized for schedulers to search for courses. It's no benefit to them for courses that aren't going to end up on tour to be labeled as such when they search. Yours was not the only one to be changed that day. There were 6 reviewers (2 of whom are schedulers) involved.
Let me show you an example of how a mismarked course wastes everyone's time.
Course was incorrectly marked tour worthy. And it wasn't even subjective, the course was just bad. A scheduler sees it in the database and has it rangered. 3 rangers take real life time to play it, take notes, and reply to the scheduler, some of which questioned the quality. Scheduler takes those notes and plays it, not for conditions or settings, but to see if it is actually bad. It is. Scheduler brings that back up to the reviewers, it gets played for a 6th time, and yep its bad. Course gets changed in the database so it doesn't get rangered again.
Now, I know you don't care or appreciate the amount of time people volunteer to make the tours work smoothly, but it's a lot. One course, before being played on tour, will have been played nearly a dozen times. All we try to do with the database is keep it organized for the tours not for the designers.
If you want to use the database to promote your course, you are missing the point of the database.
Edit: And we don't run everything by Andre. He trusts us.
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Post by 15eicheltower9 on Sept 26, 2021 7:02:50 GMT -5
And I'd like to point out how disappointed I am that this public "outing" of the reviewers didn't involve any nudes.
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Post by SAM on Sept 26, 2021 8:15:39 GMT -5
Even though you took my use of the word "award" out of context Justin there is of course a prize... gaining the chance of a tour spot guarantees multiple plays - pretty decent prize to a designer wouldn't you agree? Also - you don't know me that well if you think I've never thanked the staff or appreciate what goes on behind the scenes. Take a look at my donation badge for a start.. yup! That's right it's gold - oh! wait maybe it's photoshopped? I honestly take offence to that statement.
Why is it my fault mismarking causes a waste of time? It's just one of the reasons the process is flawed - don't blame me.
Doesn't everybody use the database to promote their courses? You submit because an accepted track is given some limelight & appears on a searchable database. That in itself promotes your course.
I will give you that was a nice attempt at humour in your follow up post.
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Post by Crazycanuck1985 on Sept 26, 2021 9:22:18 GMT -5
Correct, not everything is run by me. I trust my review team to make the right calls when reviewing courses. The fact they went back and changed this rating means they are doing their job thoroughly and effectively. I 100 percent agree with the decision here.
If it were my decision we would just mark everything as approved or not approved, but that makes it harder for the schedulers.
If "tour worthy" means so much to you Sam, play a few your worthy courses and really see how you match up. You were a fantastic designer in TGC1, but course design has evolved tremendously since then and those techniques don't cut it anymore. Most of my tour worthy TGC1 courses would be borderline approved at this point. Not saying you still arent a good designer, but step out of your comfort zone if tour worthy means so much to you.
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Post by axelvonfersen on Sept 26, 2021 10:31:43 GMT -5
If you’re not interested in getting your courses on tour and instead using the data base for your own personal promotion- you’re doing this for all the wrong reasons.
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Post by zacheroni on Sept 26, 2021 11:42:48 GMT -5
If you’re not interested in getting your courses on tour and instead using the data base for your own personal promotion- you’re doing this for all the wrong reasons. Echoooooooooooooooo Echoooooooooooooooooo
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Post by SAM on Sept 27, 2021 4:26:47 GMT -5
Appreciate Andre Crazycanuck1985 chipping in & his explanations. I knew I would never win (& said so above) but at least folks have a better insight now into how one part of the review process works. If there's a way of not deeming a course tour worthy before labeling it on a designers listing & highlighting it on the front page of the site under the "Top New Courses" section then please find a way because it really frustrated me (obviously). Surely folks can understand that? It has come to my notice one of the Parkland Design Contest judges is on the review panel & has sided with all the opposing posts so I do not expect Larkhill Manor to now do well in the competition even though it was originally thought to be tour worthy. At least I will be prepared for the results. So be it. Note: I'm ending my posts regarding the issue now & will not reply to any further additions on the matter.
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