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Post by gmanuk1965 on Jul 31, 2021 9:06:06 GMT -5
I am creating a course and on a particular hole I am having bother with unintentional blindness. Its a par 4. From the tee to the landing area is fine. From the landing area to the green is also fine but if a player from the tee hits a fast shot he may still land on the fairway but will going over some rough to the green. I am having trouble getting rid of unintentional blindness in this area without disrupting the corrections of the landing area. Do areas like rough need unintentional blindness corrected?
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Post by axelvonfersen on Jul 31, 2021 9:14:34 GMT -5
My 0.02 is that "unintentional" is seldom good. That said, I would argue that if you red-very-fast your drive into the crap, you should not complain about not having a good sightline.
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Post by mvpmanatee on Jul 31, 2021 10:49:30 GMT -5
If it was intentionally blind, that would not make it "unintentional blindness"
You would never see blindness being "unintentional" on any great course in this community.
That being said, if a pulled drive stays on the fairway, but is not in the ideal landing spot, the possibility of blindness is entirely intentional, and actually a very commonly used strategy. I obviously wouldn't start plopping huge boulders on half the fairway, but it is definitely a nice nuanced strategy that you can use on occasion.
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ChrizZcE
Amateur Golfer
Posts: 153
TGCT Name: Christian Elsesser
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Post by ChrizZcE on Jul 31, 2021 12:19:17 GMT -5
when it´s intentional.
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Post by gmanuk1965 on Jul 31, 2021 14:18:03 GMT -5
I suppose what I'm trying to say Chriz is when is unintentional blindness acceptable. Obviously UB is not acceptable if you are on the tee or fairway and you cannot see the landing zone or if you are on the fairway heading towards the green and you cannot see the green. In my case I pulled my drive but still landed on the fairway though not in the expected landing zone and some rough was in front of me in the direction I would be aiming next shot. Would UB be acceptable?
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Post by agrainger12 on Jul 31, 2021 15:14:36 GMT -5
I suppose what I'm trying to say Chriz is when is unintentional blindness acceptable. Obviously UB is not acceptable if you are on the tee or fairway and you cannot see the landing zone or if you are on the fairway heading towards the green and you cannot see the green. In my case I pulled my drive but still landed on the fairway though not in the expected landing zone and some rough was in front of me in the direction I would be aiming next shot. Would UB be acceptable? For some general stuff, blind shots should be used on courses where they feel natural (links, rolling hills). Use intentional blindness conservatively, otherwise it gets annoying. The most important thing that isn't talked about enough in terms of blindness is that if you are going to use intentional blindness, the rest of your course should be technically strong (solidly TW, lots of care put into sculpting/strategy). If your strategy/technical execution is good throughout the course, people will be less likely to question something quirky that you do because you've already achieved their trust that you know what you're doing. Same thing goes for anything else that's non-traditional. That doesn't mean it won't be questioned, but everything feels purposeful when a designer does a good job with a course. So newer designers should be very cautious about having blind shots. About when to use intentional blindness: in my opinion, this has been said earlier, but if you have a wide enough fairway, being blind in the safest part of the fairway is ok as long as the harder to hit side of the fairway isn't blind. For a tee shot, if you're going to make it completely blind: 1) make it visually interesting 2) include something as an aim point (bunker, dune, trees, even an aim marker) 3) Have an open landing area. Look at Lost Preserve (Hole 11 I think) for a good fully blind tee shot. About unintentional blindness: No. Sculpt better. Overall: If blindness is intentional, it needs to look intentional and it should add to the strategy in a way that makes sense. And don't overdo it.
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Post by gmanuk1965 on Jul 31, 2021 17:00:34 GMT -5
The unintentional blindness for query above I've sorted (the green and bunker can be seen over the rough). I'm just stuck on UB from a bunker by the fairway on another hole and I need to sort it as it is in an area where someone would likely aim for.
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Post by agrainger12 on Jul 31, 2021 17:16:57 GMT -5
Ah, ok, I would probably check out the bunker tutorial from b101 then. The main concern with what you're talking about is to make sure that you put fairway bunkers on an upslope, or put it on a flat surface and sculpt it so it's visible. But Ben does a better job explaining this.
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Post by b101 on Aug 1, 2021 0:10:36 GMT -5
The unintentional blindness for query above I've sorted (the green and bunker can be seen over the rough). I'm just stuck on UB from a bunker by the fairway on another hole and I need to sort it as it is in an area where someone would likely aim for. Struggling to visualise this - can you share a couple of screenshots? View from tee, overhead and view from approach would be ideal. Think the rest of the responses are spot on though.
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Post by gmanuk1965 on Aug 1, 2021 9:24:49 GMT -5
I kind of gave up on that bunker. I read a book a while back 'Methods of Early Golf Architecture: The Selected Writings of Alister Mackenzie, H.S. Colt, and A.W. Tillinghast' In this book Mackenzie states that he does not like too many fairway bunkers and would rather see extreme heavy rough replace some fairway bunkers. So, I've deleted the bunker and placed bushes and grass in its place which can easily be seen from the tee
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Post by gmanuk1965 on Aug 1, 2021 10:38:20 GMT -5
Another query now. Its strange but I thought I'd sorted this earlier but when looking at it again it looked different. Its a green issue. The green has one bunker at the front and to the left of the green. This can be seen. The green, I'm not so sure but the flag can be easily seen. If the green cannot be seen but the flag and any hazards can, is this acceptable? steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2563226649 I don't know if above screenshot link will work as I'm not sure of the correct procedure.
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Post by axelvonfersen on Aug 1, 2021 12:09:03 GMT -5
Have you narrowed it down to what is causing the blindness? Is it a hump in the fairway? Try using the measuring tool and draw a line from where your tee shot would land to the green, and see if there's any mounds in the way.
Alternatively, set the sun inclination down really low for a short while as it will help those humps and bumps pop a bit more.
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Post by gmanuk1965 on Aug 2, 2021 15:22:22 GMT -5
I used measuring tool and drew a line from fairway to green (tee to fairway shows no unintentional blindness). The line shows no mounds in the way. Setting sun inclination really low (11%) showed no humps and bumps. Ive noticed the green can be seen but barely and the bunker and flag can still be seen.
Does the link in my last post work?
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Post by axelvonfersen on Aug 2, 2021 15:42:00 GMT -5
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Post by ErixonStone on Aug 2, 2021 23:36:59 GMT -5
Looking at your screenshot, you don't really have a blind shot here. What you do have is a very flat shot. From a blindness perspective, this is fine. You can see the target and the hazard in front of it. However, this isn't a very interesting view at all. From your position in the middle of it, the fairway looks like a straight, flat road right to the green. If there is any interest alongside the fairway, or if the fairway has an interesting shape to it, the flatness of it makes any of that impossible to spot.
One simple solution is to elevate the green by a few feet. Another thing you can do is sink some of the land between this landing area and the green so that the land has some hint of a rolling hill. With that, pinch and shape the fairway around hazards.
As for the larger question about whether blindness is acceptable. Of course, it is, when used strategically. I don't really like the phrase "unintentional blindness" because then we are ascribing motive to the designer, when we don't know what the designer was thinking. However, we can judge how well any blindness that exists fits into the strategy of the hole. For example, if the blindness is caused by a crest of a hill, but hitting driver through a narrow gap puts the player over the crest of the hill and offers a clear shot, while laying up short of the hill's crest creates a blind approach, then it can work. If the crest of the hill is beyond the driver's range, and the approach is blind, no matter what, then that's a poor use of blindness, whether intentional or not.
If a player hits a good shot and is still penalized with a blind approach, then that's bad. If a player hits a bad shot and must deal with a blind approach, then so be it.
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