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Post by trip4563 on Jul 26, 2021 11:52:28 GMT -5
Just making sure you are aware that there is already a really good version of Shinnecock done
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Post by sandgroper on Jul 28, 2021 0:16:47 GMT -5
Oh wow, that was an experience that I will never have in real life.
I can only imagine how tough it would be out there not being able to reliably hit a drive over 300 yards.
There are some truly frightening greens that are so hard to hold, even coming in with mid to short irons.
My eagle on 2 was a dream as well as the 7th. I aimed for that bunker that guards the front of the green, like in real life, if I aim for it I'll never hit it and skirted around it beautifully setting up the eagle putt.
Was holding my round together OK until I got to 18. Hit a perfect drive but didn't allow for the ball below my feet and hit my third from the beach resulting in an ugly bogey.
Wonderful course with some amazing sightlines and wonderful planting, bringing it all alive.
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Post by beamt0wn on Aug 5, 2021 22:23:38 GMT -5
Wow wow wow. I have had the pleasure of having played this course 3x IRL and you have done an incredible job of replicating it. I will have many repeat plays. The road hole bunker was so well shaped I had to hit it in just to make sure. Also, I am eagerly awaiting your Shinnecock- you've already got a few holes done! i only played it the one time (hoping i get to play again later this year tho) and was so overwhelmed that it was hard to take it all in, so hearing it's a good RCR from someone with more irl experience is great to hear! thankfully i didn't end up in the road hole on my round, but i did peer over the edge when i passed by... the lidar/OSM for that bunker (and a lot of the bunkers on the course) just wasn't right, and i was sweating over whether or not i should flatten it and re-create it manually. that's what i ended up doing, and although i'm sure it affected some of the green nearby, i think it was worth the tradeoff. in retrospect, i wish i had done the same with the strath bunker on the 13th (Eden). i did try to sculpt what was laid out from the lidar file, but it just ain't right. there's a ton i'd like to improve on, but i'll save that for the next iteration of the game. so please let me know any spots you think could benefit from more revision. as for shinnecock, there's a solid RCR already out there by pobee10 and what you're seeing adjacent to the 10th hole is probably his work in OSM (minus the actual lidar/elevation data--i omitted that to keep the file size managable and just did some very rough sculpting). and since i haven't actually played shinnecock, i don't think i could offer any material improvements. but if anyone reading this wants to set me up with a tee time there, i'd be more than happy to repay the favor by sinking 100+ hours into another RCR. i am 100% serious about this. Oh wow, that was an experience that I will never have in real life. I can only imagine how tough it would be out there not being able to reliably hit a drive over 300 yards. There are some truly frightening greens that are so hard to hold, even coming in with mid to short irons. My eagle on 2 was a dream as well as the 7th. I aimed for that bunker that guards the front of the green, like in real life, if I aim for it I'll never hit it and skirted around it beautifully setting up the eagle putt. Was holding my round together OK until I got to 18. Hit a perfect drive but didn't allow for the ball below my feet and hit my third from the beach resulting in an ugly bogey. Wonderful course with some amazing sightlines and wonderful planting, bringing it all alive. thanks for the kind words and the recorded playthrought! as for the bogey on 18, i'd say you got away with a good deal! being at the bottom of those cliffs to the right is a tough spot. |
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Post by alejandroacantilado on Aug 6, 2021 11:49:40 GMT -5
Wow wow wow. I have had the pleasure of having played this course 3x IRL and you have done an incredible job of replicating it. I will have many repeat plays. The road hole bunker was so well shaped I had to hit it in just to make sure. Also, I am eagerly awaiting your Shinnecock- you've already got a few holes done! i only played it the one time (hoping i get to play again later this year tho) and was so overwhelmed that it was hard to take it all in, so hearing it's a good RCR from someone with more irl experience is great to hear! thankfully i didn't end up in the road hole on my round, but i did peer over the edge when i passed by... the lidar/OSM for that bunker (and a lot of the bunkers on the course) just wasn't right, and i was sweating over whether or not i should flatten it and re-create it manually. that's what i ended up doing, and although i'm sure it affected some of the green nearby, i think it was worth the tradeoff. in retrospect, i wish i had done the same with the strath bunker on the 13th (Eden). i did try to sculpt what was laid out from the lidar file, but it just ain't right. there's a ton i'd like to improve on, but i'll save that for the next iteration of the game. so please let me know any spots you think could benefit from more revision. as for shinnecock, there's a solid RCR already out there by pobee10 and what you're seeing adjacent to the 10th hole is probably his work in OSM (minus the actual lidar/elevation data--i omitted that to keep the file size managable and just did some very rough sculpting). and since i haven't actually played shinnecock, i don't think i could offer any material improvements. but if anyone reading this wants to set me up with a tee time there, i'd be more than happy to repay the favor by sinking 100+ hours into another RCR. i am 100% serious about this. Oh wow, that was an experience that I will never have in real life. I can only imagine how tough it would be out there not being able to reliably hit a drive over 300 yards. There are some truly frightening greens that are so hard to hold, even coming in with mid to short irons. My eagle on 2 was a dream as well as the 7th. I aimed for that bunker that guards the front of the green, like in real life, if I aim for it I'll never hit it and skirted around it beautifully setting up the eagle putt. Was holding my round together OK until I got to 18. Hit a perfect drive but didn't allow for the ball below my feet and hit my third from the beach resulting in an ugly bogey. Wonderful course with some amazing sightlines and wonderful planting, bringing it all alive. thanks for the kind words and the recorded playthrought! as for the bogey on 18, i'd say you got away with a good deal! being at the bottom of those cliffs to the right is a tough spot. Nice! Yeah I used to have an east end of LI golf hookup so I played Shinne/National and some others a bunch of times when I had NO business doing so. Alas I've fallen out of touch with him so you will have to go to someone else for that invite. |
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Post by b101 on Dec 21, 2021 8:41:27 GMT -5
Rare that I come back to a course this long after publish, but this one still impresses me time and again. The detail work is phenomenal and obviously the course speaks for itself.
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Post by beamt0wn on Mar 9, 2022 16:17:19 GMT -5
Rare that I come back to a course this long after publish, but this one still impresses me time and again. The detail work is phenomenal and obviously the course speaks for itself. so glad to hear it! i put the game down for the winter, but now that irl golf is just around the corner, i'm sure i'll be back into 2k21 as well. cant wait to peep the new courses you and the rest of the community have published over the winter!
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Post by amigobucks on Oct 26, 2022 2:30:31 GMT -5
Hi Beamt0wn, do you plan to port over this excellent representation of NGLA to 2K23?
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Post by mctrees02 on Oct 26, 2022 16:37:36 GMT -5
I believe it's going to take him a while to replant this so it fits under the meter.
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Post by beamt0wn on Nov 4, 2022 19:44:08 GMT -5
Hi Beamt0wn, do you plan to port over this excellent representation of NGLA to 2K23?
things aren't promising tbh. when i brought the 2k21 course file into 2k23, the object meter clocked in at a whopping 131%.
others have been able to solve similar issues by removing multi-planted objects and replacing with single-planting. unfortunately the fix for NGLA isn't so simple. details below, but the TL;DR version is that these technical issues combined with the huge regressions to the 2k23 version of the designer all add up to my decision to request a refund on steam.
so right now i'm not even working on it. but i'm keeping an eye on the forums and listening for updates/improvements to the designer UI/UX and ported file efficiency. if we get good news on that front, i'll buy the game again and do the port. it's also possible that my refund is denied (still pending, probably because some middle-manager at 2k is letting refund requests sit so that the launch numbers look better), in which case i guess i'll start work sooner.
anyway, that's the summary. if anyone is interested in the specifics of the object meter issues, read on:
with all the planting, deleting, and replanting i did in the 2k21 version of the course, i learned that multi-planting and spline-planting is very inefficient with the object meter. i'd guess single-planting is around 90% more efficient with the object meter than multi- or spline-planting. so in other words, if you spline plant an area and your object meter goes up by 1.0%, you can single-plant that same area to a similar visual density and it only uses 0.1% object meter.
but single-planting has a huge drawback: it chews through the file size meter (that was a fun revelation i didn't pick up on until i had single-planted about 70% of the course before i noticed the file size meter had turned red). i don't think it's a direct inverse relationship to the object meter usage, but it's significant.
so anyway, in the final published version of NGLA i ended up using a mix of single-planting and spline-planting grass to balance the load between object meter and file size meter. it worked pretty well overall. but the issue now in 2k23 is that i can delete all of my spline-planted areas and get the object meter to around 95%, but after that i'm left with a file size meter at around 90%. and there's no way i could even come close to replacing all the deleted multi-planting with single-planting and keep the file size under 100%.
so that's where i'm at. it sucks. apologies to all who want to play the course in 2k23. but it's a course i love and i want to do it right.
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Post by paddyjk19 on Nov 4, 2022 20:36:08 GMT -5
Hi Beamt0wn, do you plan to port over this excellent representation of NGLA to 2K23?
things aren't promising tbh. when i brought the 2k21 course file into 2k23, the object meter clocked in at a whopping 131%.
others have been able to solve similar issues by removing multi-planted objects and replacing with single-planting. unfortunately the fix for NGLA isn't so simple. details below, but the TL;DR version is that these technical issues combined with the huge regressions to the 2k23 version of the designer all add up to my decision to request a refund on steam.
so right now i'm not even working on it. but i'm keeping an eye on the forums and listening for updates/improvements to the designer UI/UX and ported file efficiency. if we get good news on that front, i'll buy the game again and do the port. it's also possible that my refund is denied (still pending, probably because some middle-manager at 2k is letting refund requests sit so that the launch numbers look better), in which case i guess i'll start work sooner.
anyway, that's the summary. if anyone is interested in the specifics of the object meter issues, read on:
with all the planting, deleting, and replanting i did in the 2k21 version of the course, i learned that multi-planting and spline-planting is very inefficient with the object meter. i'd guess single-planting is around 90% more efficient with the object meter than multi- or spline-planting. so in other words, if you spline plant an area and your object meter goes up by 1.0%, you can single-plant that same area to a similar visual density and it only uses 0.1% object meter.
but single-planting has a huge drawback: it chews through the file size meter (that was a fun revelation i didn't pick up on until i had single-planted about 70% of the course before i noticed the file size meter had turned red). i don't think it's a direct inverse relationship to the object meter usage, but it's significant.
so anyway, in the final published version of NGLA i ended up using a mix of single-planting and spline-planting grass to balance the load between object meter and file size meter. it worked pretty well overall. but the issue now in 2k23 is that i can delete all of my spline-planted areas and get the object meter to around 95%, but after that i'm left with a file size meter at around 90%. and there's no way i could even come close to replacing all the deleted multi-planting with single-planting and keep the file size under 100%.
so that's where i'm at. it sucks. apologies to all who want to play the course in 2k23. but it's a course i love and i want to do it right.
So from what I've seen, 2k has put more of a precedence on LiDAR data taking up object meter, much the same as it was in 2019. Whilst re-planting can work in some instances, big plots / land areas are taking up massive amounts of meter. Looking at your overhead photos on page one where you've included fair amounts of Shinnecock and a couple of holes of Sebonak, I'm guessing you didn't mask them out with the red brush? Or did you lay all those holes manually? If they were imported, unfortunately the fix is to mask more areas with the red brush in paint, literally brush everything that's not in the immediate playing area and then re-plant. I know that's not welcome news but the big plots are being shafted currently. There is a potential work around..... If you still have the TGC Tools folder from when you first imported the course (including mask), you could reload the course into TGC Tools (the finished version), extract the height map, and set aside. Then make the mask more complete, do another pull through the tools with a less LiDAR affected height map, extract that height map and then re-insert it into you finished plot which should reduce the object meter significantly. If that sounds like jibberish, it's because it is. I basically just have a wild idea that might work in my head.... If you send me a DM and can send me both the 2k21 finished course file plus the original folder you used for the import, I might be able to give it a go for you. I'm aware this is last resort stuff but it sounds like we are at that saloon now |
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Post by beamt0wn on Nov 7, 2022 10:21:18 GMT -5
So from what I've seen, 2k has put more of a precedence on LiDAR data taking up object meter, much the same as it was in 2019. Whilst re-planting can work in some instances, big plots / land areas are taking up massive amounts of meter. Looking at your overhead photos on page one where you've included fair amounts of Shinnecock and a couple of holes of Sebonak, I'm guessing you didn't mask them out with the red brush? Or did you lay all those holes manually? If they were imported, unfortunately the fix is to mask more areas with the red brush in paint, literally brush everything that's not in the immediate playing area and then re-plant. I know that's not welcome news but the big plots are being shafted currently. There is a potential work around..... If you still have the TGC Tools folder from when you first imported the course (including mask), you could reload the course into TGC Tools (the finished version), extract the height map, and set aside. Then make the mask more complete, do another pull through the tools with a less LiDAR affected height map, extract that height map and then re-insert it into you finished plot which should reduce the object meter significantly. If that sounds like jibberish, it's because it is. I basically just have a wild idea that might work in my head.... If you send me a DM and can send me both the 2k21 finished course file plus the original folder you used for the import, I might be able to give it a go for you. I'm aware this is last resort stuff but it sounds like we are at that saloon now unfortunately in this case i masked the course quite close to the perimeter. the land in the non-course areas were brought up manually with the in-game brushes to match the elevation of the edge of the masked area, and i referenced google earth to do a very rough approximation of the general elevation changes in the off-course areas. the holes you see from shinnecock and sebonack are just imported OSM markings--no actual lidar data is included from there.
i'll check my files later today to verify the mask, but sadly i think this route is a dead-end.
EDIT: mask is below. i believe that blue is effectively the same as red and zeroes out that terrain and adds a dirt texture. but i could be wrong.
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Post by Jeb_LaZagna on Feb 18, 2023 12:33:21 GMT -5
I popped in 2K21 just to play this for the first time and all I have to say is WOW. Having read up on CB MacDonald's work and closely following the Lido reconstruction, I knew I wanted to play this course when I found it. I opted not to use my scout cam and followed the recommended settings (except for the driver carry) and I was very impressed with the course (both the design itself and the reconstruction of it in-game). What was really great about it was even though I was using a driver with a 294 carry distance, that didn't really give me any advantage. There were many holes where I had to use my 3 wood to avoid hazards and the holes where I was able to pull driver, I still had a difficult approach to the green. It really speaks to the genius of the architect.
The only disappointment I have is that you were not able to port this over to 2k23 as I think the course would have a lot more teeth in that game, but I understand the reason why. Great job on the recreation - I'm sure I'll be back to play this course many times in the future!
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Post by paddyjk19 on Feb 19, 2023 6:39:19 GMT -5
So from what I've seen, 2k has put more of a precedence on LiDAR data taking up object meter, much the same as it was in 2019. Whilst re-planting can work in some instances, big plots / land areas are taking up massive amounts of meter. Looking at your overhead photos on page one where you've included fair amounts of Shinnecock and a couple of holes of Sebonak, I'm guessing you didn't mask them out with the red brush? Or did you lay all those holes manually? If they were imported, unfortunately the fix is to mask more areas with the red brush in paint, literally brush everything that's not in the immediate playing area and then re-plant. I know that's not welcome news but the big plots are being shafted currently. There is a potential work around..... If you still have the TGC Tools folder from when you first imported the course (including mask), you could reload the course into TGC Tools (the finished version), extract the height map, and set aside. Then make the mask more complete, do another pull through the tools with a less LiDAR affected height map, extract that height map and then re-insert it into you finished plot which should reduce the object meter significantly. If that sounds like jibberish, it's because it is. I basically just have a wild idea that might work in my head.... If you send me a DM and can send me both the 2k21 finished course file plus the original folder you used for the import, I might be able to give it a go for you. I'm aware this is last resort stuff but it sounds like we are at that saloon now unfortunately in this case i masked the course quite close to the perimeter. the land in the non-course areas were brought up manually with the in-game brushes to match the elevation of the edge of the masked area, and i referenced google earth to do a very rough approximation of the general elevation changes in the off-course areas. the holes you see from shinnecock and sebonack are just imported OSM markings--no actual lidar data is included from there.
i'll check my files later today to verify the mask, but sadly i think this route is a dead-end.
EDIT: mask is below. i believe that blue is effectively the same as red and zeroes out that terrain and adds a dirt texture. but i could be wrong.
You could try to bring the top and bottom of the plot right up close to the perimeter of the playing area, seems it’s not essential for the sea end and you could hide the perimeter with bushes and trees at the south end. Obviously this will only work if it’s cutting off a small part of the plot. One other option is to just forgo the long grass. I’ve got a similar issue with Hayling GC where it’s way over the object meter. Might end up just going with a yellow texture heavy rough instead. Really not what I want to do but might be the only option for this game. We can always keep the decent versions from 2k21 and try to put the files into 2k25 directly if they ever give us back some meter |
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Post by beamt0wn on Jul 2, 2023 12:59:24 GMT -5
I popped in 2K21 just to play this for the first time and all I have to say is WOW. Having read up on CB MacDonald's work and closely following the Lido reconstruction, I knew I wanted to play this course when I found it. I opted not to use my scout cam and followed the recommended settings (except for the driver carry) and I was very impressed with the course (both the design itself and the reconstruction of it in-game). What was really great about it was even though I was using a driver with a 294 carry distance, that didn't really give me any advantage. There were many holes where I had to use my 3 wood to avoid hazards and the holes where I was able to pull driver, I still had a difficult approach to the green. It really speaks to the genius of the architect. The only disappointment I have is that you were not able to port this over to 2k23 as I think the course would have a lot more teeth in that game, but I understand the reason why. Great job on the recreation - I'm sure I'll be back to play this course many times in the future!
i picked up 2k23 on sale and might give it another go and try to port it in the next few months. if i do end up finishing it, it wont have the level of world detail and grass density that the 2k21 version did, but at least it'll be playable!
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Post by beamt0wn on Jul 26, 2023 18:58:16 GMT -5
now ported into 2k23 after hacking and slashing 31% of the objects on the original version. changelog: - ~25% less grass!
- way less background detail--neighboring sebonack is now completely deserted!
- new pins, some sourced from the recently-released golf digest flyover
- relocated fictional back teebox on #7
- slower, softer default greens (redan is still gonna piss a lot of people off tho)
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