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Post by Tombanator on Apr 4, 2021 12:17:23 GMT -5
Oh, definitely! Even though I think I had 3 soft crashes that wiped I think... 13-14 hours of progress total? That was the only not fun part, nothing more fun than trying to remember what I had done before so I can redo that... rookie numbers I'm sure (and I think they should be?), but overall I had a good time! What are you designing on? I've never had a crash on PC, though I know others have. I'm insane when it comes to saving - probably save every 15 minutes. Just in case 😬 PC here! It didn't like "crash" in the way that you usually think it would, it just got kinda stuck in a loop that I could not escape any other way than resetting entirely. I did learn to save more often after the 3rd time though! |
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Post by axelvonfersen on Apr 4, 2021 12:54:14 GMT -5
virtualgolfer65 has it nailed. I think for maybe 25% of the holes I build, they come out right first time. The next 25% probably take one major edit. The final 50%? Anything from about 3 big edits through to blowing up the hole eight or nine times. The editing process is vital and nobody nails everything first time. You have no idea how nice it is to know that even guys like you struggle and blow up holes, Ben. |
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Post by b101 on Apr 4, 2021 13:41:07 GMT -5
virtualgolfer65 has it nailed. I think for maybe 25% of the holes I build, they come out right first time. The next 25% probably take one major edit. The final 50%? Anything from about 3 big edits through to blowing up the hole eight or nine times. The editing process is vital and nobody nails everything first time. You have no idea how nice it is to know that even guys like you struggle and blow up holes, Ben. Every good designer I know does and many of the best holes I've designed have come after a radical change of plan. Couple of examples of holes I would consider some of my absolute best: 8 at Strathlorne was never meant to have a split in the fairway, nor was it meant to be driveable. It was originally 50 yards longer as a drive and pitch or lay back to full wedge, dependent on different pins. It also looked hideous for ages until I realised I needed to split the fairway and shift the first half of the fairway about 20 yards further left. With this one, crystallising the idea and keeping it very simple off the tee made it - the first half of the hole is purely about judging the pitch of the slope if you don't go for the big carry. Much as I love seeing people go for the driver off the tee, the approach shot if you lay up is my favourite on the course. That hole took seven attempts: three different greens, moved the tee a few times, completely blew it up once, lengthened, shortened, then on the final attempt I realised about splitting the fairway. 8 at Yarra (long par five) was eventually one of my favourites. Originally was meant to ride a big slope off the tee, but it was out of keeping with the rest of the course, which was pretty flat. Moved the green left and right a bunch, but eventually found a greensite that featured one little swale short right. Built the entire hole based on what angle you wanted to approach that swale at and now completely love it. Maybe wish it was a touch shorter, but all the other fives were easily reachable so it made the most sense for the course as a whole. At Whiskey Run, I think I edited every single hole a number of times. We originally had the course lying very low to a river between my course and Ranch, then raised the whole plot 50ft odd to give the cliffs, so redid all the coastal holes to fit cliffs rather than beach. Then we realised the dunes were too low profile (still are, IMO), so that made me edit again. I remember 7 was originally a par four to a plateau green, then I found another green site at the bottom of a dune, then eventually found that punchbowl in between four other dunes and that approach where you can run it onto the green from about 50 yards short became my favourite shot on the course. You also have the odd few that come out perfectly first time: Kaiuma 4, Strathlorne 18, Greenstone 12 and Yarra 11 are IMO some of my best holes I've built and happily required no edits. It's easy to meddle too much as well. Long story short: never stop looking for better alternatives. Obviously you can overthink it, too, so it's a balancing act. But that's the fun of it  |
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Post by axelvonfersen on Apr 4, 2021 13:49:32 GMT -5
You have no idea how nice it is to know that even guys like you struggle and blow up holes, Ben. Every good designer I know does and many of the best holes I've designed have come after a radical change of plan. Couple of examples of holes I would consider some of my absolute best: Long story short: never stop looking for better alternatives. Obviously you can overthink it, too, so it's a balancing act. But that's the fun of it It is the fun of it - yes. I've found that the feeling you get when you've struggled with a hole and finally nail it down, go to the play through and you just know it's right, is probably one of the best feelings in designing. Or when you find the perfect green site, or the perfect place for a tee box. The small things. |
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Post by cd06 on Apr 4, 2021 14:34:50 GMT -5
I'm a little strange with my routings and plots because I tend to design a plot first, then do a routing without really thinking about the holes as in where they lie on the plot and their undulations. Probably the wrong way, but it's what I've done with the routing for my National Treasure course (1, because I don't have time to change it, and 2, because I kinda made it up as I went along). I always really struggle translating a drawn-out hole into the designer, because I don't usually use a scale when drawing on paper. Which is why often I'll get frustrated when a hole doesn't turn out how I want it to. I didn't pre-plan my National Treasure course or my Design League entry - again, not the best way to do it. I do plan on pre-routing my CC contest entry when I enter, but I struggle to get inspired a lot of the time. That was definitely the case with the National Treasure stuff - the IRL golf courses in Holland didn't inspire me enough to build a course paying homage to them in their design style. This definitely explains why I delete so many plots - 1, because I get bored of them quickly, and 2, because I see something else that I want to try that doesn't fit into the current WIP. The frustration of tearing stuff up is very real - especially for myself - but it's always very satisfying to nail a look and a design. The National Treasure draft show was nearly three weeks ago, and I still don't have a single hole even surfaced. It's the self-hatred of something I make that really kills my ambition to push on in a project. That said, repeatedly tearing things up can really help improve your work. That was a bit of perspective on the above posts - I know it isn't totally related to the thread here but we move |
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Post by hallzballz6908 on Apr 4, 2021 15:03:42 GMT -5
Tombanator , the most important thing to keep in mind is whether or not you’re having fun with your virtual creations. As long as you’re enjoying yourself, the “quality” (which is very subjective person to person) of your projects is fairly inconsequential and will improve greatly as you gain experience with the tools. Design for yourself, not for others.
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sebk
Amateur Golfer
Posts: 216
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Post by sebk on Apr 4, 2021 15:46:23 GMT -5
You have no idea how nice it is to know that even guys like you struggle and blow up holes, Ben. Every good designer I know does and many of the best holes I've designed have come after a radical change of plan. Couple of examples of holes I would consider some of my absolute best: 8 at Strathlorne was never meant to have a split in the fairway, nor was it meant to be driveable. It was originally 50 yards longer as a drive and pitch or lay back to full wedge, dependent on different pins. It also looked hideous for ages until I realised I needed to split the fairway and shift the first half of the fairway about 20 yards further left. With this one, crystallising the idea and keeping it very simple off the tee made it - the first half of the hole is purely about judging the pitch of the slope if you don't go for the big carry. Much as I love seeing people go for the driver off the tee, the approach shot if you lay up is my favourite on the course. That hole took seven attempts: three different greens, moved the tee a few times, completely blew it up once, lengthened, shortened, then on the final attempt I realised about splitting the fairway. 8 at Yarra (long par five) was eventually one of my favourites. Originally was meant to ride a big slope off the tee, but it was out of keeping with the rest of the course, which was pretty flat. Moved the green left and right a bunch, but eventually found a greensite that featured one little swale short right. Built the entire hole based on what angle you wanted to approach that swale at and now completely love it. Maybe wish it was a touch shorter, but all the other fives were easily reachable so it made the most sense for the course as a whole. At Whiskey Run, I think I edited every single hole a number of times. We originally had the course lying very low to a river between my course and Ranch, then raised the whole plot 50ft odd to give the cliffs, so redid all the coastal holes to fit cliffs rather than beach. Then we realised the dunes were too low profile (still are, IMO), so that made me edit again. I remember 7 was originally a par four to a plateau green, then I found another green site at the bottom of a dune, then eventually found that punchbowl in between four other dunes and that approach where you can run it onto the green from about 50 yards short became my favourite shot on the course. You also have the odd few that come out perfectly first time: Kaiuma 4, Strathlorne 18, Greenstone 12 and Yarra 11 are IMO some of my best holes I've built and happily required no edits. It's easy to meddle too much as well. Long story short: never stop looking for better alternatives. Obviously you can overthink it, too, so it's a balancing act. But that's the fun of it And the value of playing multiple courses out there from established designers will shed a lot of light on strategy and planting styles. This I think is helpful to 1. Help you with the looks you can strive for, but also 2. As a good ‘break’ from designing, and being stuck in an idea. Even if, for example, you’re designing in Swiss and you see a cool hole designed in steppe, a lot of the strategy and planting ideas can translate. Don’t forget to take the break often and to continue looking for new ideas that might make you excited to design! Tombanator I absolutely love that you jumped into designer for the first time and submitted some work! Such valuable critique and tips available from this community but also I appreciate the time that all designers commit to give us something to play. Nothing but improvements on the horizon for all of us! Keep it up! Great work! |
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Post by Q on Apr 4, 2021 16:26:10 GMT -5
I'm a little strange with my routings and plots because I tend to design a plot first, then do a routing without really thinking about the holes as in where they lie on the plot and their undulations. Probably the wrong way, but it's what I've done with the routing for my National Treasure course (1, because I don't have time to change it, and 2, because I kinda made it up as I went along). I always really struggle translating a drawn-out hole into the designer, because I don't usually use a scale when drawing on paper. Which is why often I'll get frustrated when a hole doesn't turn out how I want it to. I didn't pre-plan my National Treasure course or my Design League entry - again, not the best way to do it. I do plan on pre-routing my CC contest entry when I enter, but I struggle to get inspired a lot of the time. That was definitely the case with the National Treasure stuff - the IRL golf courses in Holland didn't inspire me enough to build a course paying homage to them in their design style. This definitely explains why I delete so many plots - 1, because I get bored of them quickly, and 2, because I see something else that I want to try that doesn't fit into the current WIP. The frustration of tearing stuff up is very real - especially for myself - but it's always very satisfying to nail a look and a design. The National Treasure draft show was nearly three weeks ago, and I still don't have a single hole even surfaced. It's the self-hatred of something I make that really kills my ambition to push on in a project. That said, repeatedly tearing things up can really help improve your work. That was a bit of perspective on the above posts - I know it isn't totally related to the thread here but we move That's exactly what I did on Asylum and Bohemian. Te Amo was a half done plot that I finished after 9 holes so that one probably feels quite a bit more "planned out" if that makes sense (see big golf vs small golf thread for more of this) every piece of ground game there was meticulously sculpted and tested over and over again to achieve exactly the right effects I wanted it to have on the roll of a golf ball. just know any method that works for you is fine. Im going hard "small" golf with my russian course (kinda fits the theme). |
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Post by virtualgolfer65 on Apr 4, 2021 16:49:15 GMT -5
If it gives you solace Tombanator this is my second design league contest after joining last November. I did the final one from last year and created 6 holes that turned into Lighthouse Falls golf course. I learned a ton and even more since then. I am reworking what would have been my World Cup of Design alternate contest entry, after receiving feedback. (Note: I didn't enter that contest due to a conflict of interest). I entered this design league with the intent of using more of the brush skills I'd learned to this point. I have created at least 100 plots, many of which sit unused on my PC. I designed one hole with a hundred bunkers, solely to work on sculpting. Same with streams where I have a plot with probably 50 streams and nothing else. Same with bush planting, buried tree planting, etc, etc. There are plots that will never be used for anything, except for the practice canvases that they were made for. I spend as much time just playing around with the brushes than I do building golf holes/courses. Of course, I am building a National Treasure course, but all of the practice and repeititions with the brushes and techniques I believe will benefit my course/hole creation faster than if I tried building courses and get enough reps with the tools. It's easy to forget that people like b101, Crazycanuck1985, @articfury, and all the other OGs have hundreds and perhaps thousands of hours in the designer over the years. Practice, practice, practice and you'll get there. Glad your in the Design League and let's all just keep getting better! |
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Post by b101 on Apr 5, 2021 14:06:46 GMT -5
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Post by shotstone on Apr 5, 2021 14:11:30 GMT -5
One day I'll plant like that 🤣 loved the beaver dam trick for the water planes. |
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Post by mattyfromcanada on Apr 5, 2021 14:42:57 GMT -5
Next contest is up and running! I created a new thread for it in this same forum! Check it out! #coconut
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Post by obsoletexeo on Apr 5, 2021 18:37:29 GMT -5
Ya that beaver dam is clever. Just played a round yesterday with a creek and saw a beaver hiding about the bank, and that bit of work by rayzor made me think of it. Pretty stuff and a solid entry! |
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Post by rayzor on Apr 6, 2021 7:59:52 GMT -5
Thanks for the playthrough Ben! It's always a pleasure to have someone play through your course, especially one that has such a good eye. I definitely agree with all of your advice and as always, I'll be keeping it in mind moving forward on other courses. Thanks again for doing all of these playthroughs! Cheers |
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Post by richnufc99 on Apr 6, 2021 8:07:42 GMT -5
Thanks for the playthrough Ben! It's always a pleasure to have someone play through your course, especially one that has such a good eye. I definitely agree with all of your advice and as always, I'll be keeping it in mind moving forward on other courses. Thanks again for doing all of these playthroughs! Cheers Impressive work... haven’t played it but watched Ben’s run through... it’s a look I’ll be taking some inspiration from... |
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